Could the Carcano REALLY be the JFK assassination weapon?

[Detritus]

anyone know of a good place on the web that explains the "magic bullet" in a realistic and plausible way??

i saw a documentary a few years back that explained how this COULD have happened, and been ballisticly possible (involved Kennedy and the governor[ don't know how to spell his name] talking to one another and NOT being bolt upright and "properly seated" at the time of that shot).

my wife and i are in agreement about almost every aspect of what "could have happened" at dealey plaza, but she's got the "zig-zagging bullet" version in mind and can't seem to accept that it was possible for one bullet to have hit kenedy, then the governor etc.

just wanting the info so that i can show my lovely wife, why i hold the veiws i do in this regard....

thanks guys

 

[buzz_knox]

i saw a documentary a few years back that explained how this COULD have happened, and been ballisticly possible (involved Kennedy and the governor[ don't know how to spell his name] talking to one another and NOT being bolt upright and "properly seated" at the time of that shot).

Did this take into account the fact that the official reports on the wounds received by Kennedy were altered to support the lone gunman theory, as stated by Gerald Ford?

 

[Newton]

I've seen lots of war footage showing people get hit by rifle bullets, I have yet to set anyone who was head shot jerk violently TOWARDS the shooter.

The Zapruder film clearly shows Kennedy's head explode from a frontal impact that then blew the back of his head off, in keeping with basic Newtonian physics (the real reason for my screen name), his head jerks in the direction of bullet flight which is towards the general direction of the book repository, it just doesn't look right.

Combine this with the fact that Jack Ruby was seen in the area of the Plaza on the day of the shooting by a police officer who knew him quite well, and it starts to smell like a beach at low tide.

I am a long, long, way from being well acquainted with the events of that day, but every time I see the video footage, the lone shooter theory just doesn't look right. I always figured that Ruby was the second shooter, and killing Oswald was his last desparate attempt to avoid being implicated, perhaps hoping for mercy as a misguided patriot.

My 2c, and I doubt it's worth that.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

anyone know of a good place on the web that explains the "magic bullet" in a realistic and plausible way??

Not online but I know a good source. Read the book Case Closed: Lee Harvey Oswald and the Assassination of JFK by Gerald Posner. I have read every book written about the assassination and was all for conspiracy, but this one book convinced me that Oswald, acting alone, killed JFK. In it, the author debunks each of the "discrepancies" like the Magic Bullet, the head-snap or the grassy knoll, one-by-one.

Most books and documentaries are biased in their transmittion of information in an attempt to convince you they are correct. There is a lot of information and evidence that never sees the light of day because it doesn't contribute to the author's conspiracy premise. Much like getting all of your gun facts from HCI/Brady/VPC.

 

[BigG]

Don Tinfoil Hats!

There was a pretty good run down on the assassination on one of the "Discovery type" channels - said Kennedy was ordered hit by Giancana mob who used Marseilles hit man provided by French Connection mob. Snuck in thru New Orleans without papers, did hit in Dallas, smuggled back out. </tinfoil>

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

Numerous tests were performed at a test facility and it was impossible to hit the moving target using a Carcano in the time frame that took place on Nov. 22nd, 1963.

It's been duplicated and done successfully since then.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Being left handed has nothing to do with it, really.

I'm very strongly left-handed, but I shoot from the right shoulder because that's my dominant eye.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"I've seen lots of war footage showing people get hit by rifle bullets, I have yet to set anyone who was head shot jerk violently TOWARDS the shooter.

The Zapruder film clearly shows Kennedy's head explode from a frontal impact that then blew the back of his head off, in keeping with basic Newtonian physics..."


I used to think that too, in fact rather strongly, but I got a copy of the Zapruder film, and in viewing it frame by frame and messing with the settings for color, shading, balance, and the like, I've come to the conclusion that what appears to be Kennedy's head exploding from a frontal shot is actually an optical illusion caused by both Zapruder moving the camera and Kennedy's car moving. The motorcade was at an angle to Zapruder, so small relative motion by both Kennedy and the motorcade makes it appear as if the cloud of blood and bone are actually coming from the back of his head.

Anyway, that's my concusion based on what I know about what I saw frame by frame and knowing where Zapruder and the motorcade were in relation to each other.

 

[DeBee]

The JFK 'killshot' to the head was fired by a .45 ACP caliber DeLisle carbine loaded with a new (for the time) sintered uranium slug.

That is why the brain tissue was 'lost'- the whole mass fluoresced under x-ray...

The shot probably came from a low angle like the sewer on the side of the road.

There were quite a few good shots in Dallas that sad day...

 

[mephisto]

what?

 

[Keith]

If memory serves, the first shot was less than fifty yards, the last shot at about eighty yards.
And if you think about it, from the shooters standpoint, the target was nearly stationary - moving directly away at a low rate of speed.

And he only scored two hits out of three shots! That's hardly the great feat of marksmanship the ting foil hat crowd wwould have us believe!

Keith

 

[Keith]

But his head jerked to the rear when struck!!!! Remember that one?

I used to think that was pretty damning evidence of a shot from the front until I noticed that when I shot old punkins and stuff like that, they always fell toward me - toward the shot. And somewhere out on the web are some experiments done with similar objects, and all of them fall (or jerk) in the direction of the shot.
Thay are calling this the "jet effect". Explaining that the gooey "material" exiting from the rear tends to propel the head (or goo-filled pumpkin) away from the rear exot blast - towards the shooter.

So, the tin hat crowds most damning piece of evidence turns out to prove the shot came from School Book Depsitory building, rather than the grassy knoll.

Keith

 

[Mike Irwin]

"But his head jerked to the rear when struck!!!! Remember that one?"

A doctor friend told me this could have been caused by a "convulsion reflex" which apparently sometimes happens when the brain suffers an injury.

Actually saw it happen in college to a guy who caught a knee in the head during a game of flag football. for about 2 seconds it looked as if he was trying to bring his heels up to the back of his head.

Apparently it has to do with how the muscles are anchored to the spine in more or less a vertical orientation, as opposed to the front of the body, where the torso muscles are more or less banded around the chest

 

[Mike Irwin]

"The JFK 'killshot' to the head was fired by a .45 ACP caliber DeLisle carbine loaded with a new (for the time) sintered uranium slug."

What? That doesn't make any sense.

The Illuminati-Reptillian Alien consortium, working in concert with the Pope, the Mafia, and the United Mine Worker's, KNEW that uranium would cause fluorescing of the wound!

They were TOLD to use skuzyumptium, which is the preferred method of executing Cyaxian agents who are masquerading as US Presidents. It leaves no trace, and in fact creates no wound. Just looks like the target has gone to sleep...

 

[Keith]

Sure, it could have been a combination of the two things. He certainly convulsed on the second (neck) in some classic fashion that doctors recognize in neck injuries - his hands coming together in front of his chest.

On the third shot his head jerks back a bit and a cone of spray leaps skyward, and slighty forward.

It's just that this "jet effect" thing has been overlooked for so long. At a glance it seems to be contrary to physics and even common sense - but anyone with a rifle and milk jug can test it and see for themselves. The jug will fall towards the shooter.

Keith

 

[MLC]

The 60-90 yards hots make on the president would not be a challenge for a practiced shooter or a trained Marine.
In this GIF it looks like the final shot hits the senator.
I don't know how that realtes to the evaluation of the assassination but it
looks like he's he from the rear to me.

 

[Mike Irwin]

I've watched that clip dozens of times, and have also pulled it apart frame by frame, but it's still harrowing to watch...


I seem to remember the explanation for his hands being up was that the first shot hit him in the neck and came out his throat and he was grasping at his throat, which is why Jackie is turned towards him when his skull disintegrates.

 

[Keith]

The writer Posner makes an excellent case that there were three bullets from the rear, but the first two did not happen when and where the Warren Commission says they did.
That knowledge does two things - it takes "the "magic bullet" out of the equation since two bullets did all those things, rather than one. And it gives Oswald a longer time betwen shots.

He also proves his case beyond any doubt by showing that in one frame of the Zapruder film, Kennedies lapel actually jumps out and a small amount of blood spray is visible exiting at the spot (the neck shot). If I recall correctly, it is this bullet that srikes conolly in the wrist and makes him drop his hat.

It isn't for some seconds that Kennedy reacts and this moment is always where Warren Commision said the second bullet struck - they were wrong.

Then the third and final bullet comes in and it's quite obvious when this one hits Kennedy, and then goes on to strike Conolly again.

Oh and that first bullet was much earlier than the WC called it as well - it was actually fired just before the view was obscured by the tree instead of just after it.

And this gives the shooter the second two shots in 9.9 seconds, instead of the six seconds that was always claimed.

Keith

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Like Mike said, get the Zapruder film on DVD and watch it yourself before believing everyone else.

Regarding the head movement:

Itek Optical Systems did a computer enhancement for a CBS documentary which showed that when the bullet hit JFK, he jerked forward 2.3 inches before starting his rapid movement backward.

The backward movement is then caused by two things. First, was a neuromuscular spasm caused by the destruction of JFK's cortex, resulting in a massive discharge of neurologic impulses down the spine to every muscle in the body. As the body stiffened and the strongest muscles being those in the back and neck, they contract, which causes the body to lurch upward and to the rear. JFK was also wearing a back brace which accentuated this movement and not letting him fall forward.

Here's another interesting tidbit of information:

At the same instant the President's body was in a neuromuscular seizure, the bullet exploded out the right side of his head. Dr. Luis Alvarez, a Nobel-Prize winning physicist, focused on that to discover the second factor that drove the President's head back with such force. Dubbed the "jet effect," Dr. Alvarez established it both through physical experiments that re-created the head shot and extensive laboratory calculations He found that when the brain and blood tissue expoded out JFK's head, they carried forward more momentum than was brought in by the bullet. That caused the head to thrust backward - in an opposite direction - as a rocket does when its fuel is ejected. Because the bullet exited on the right side of JFK's head, it forced him to be propelled back and to the left, exactly what is visible on the Zapruder film.

 

[Newton]

Produces more momentum than was carried in by the bullet.

Produce extra momentum ? More than was carried in ?


Watching Professor Klinkenhoff get the rebound from a punch ball sure would be interesting

Ye kanna change the laws of physics Jim.

Those of you who think he's dead are wearing the tinfoil hats, I think that him, Elvis, and Marilyn are shift leaders at our local Taco Bell, JFK does the drive through window.

 

[Shooter973]

JFK weapon?

Is it just a coincidence that the 264 Win mag was just out as a hunting rifle and cartridge at this time? It takes the same size bullet as the Carcano and is a much better rifle. Of course only one bullet was recovered and it was a FMJ, but the 264 could have be reloaded with FMJ's also. just a coincidence I'm sure!

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Is it just a coincidence that the 264 Win mag was just out as a hunting rifle and cartridge at this time?"

Huh?

The .264 Win. Mag. was announced in 1958, and the first rifles and ammo became available in 1959.

I guess it's not a coincidence as long as you don't take into account the fact that JFK was kill 4 years later...

Of if you don't mind the fact that by 1963 nearly 2 million surplus military rifles in 6.5mm caliber had been imported into the United States, rifles made in Italy, Japan, Sweden, Holland, and Greece.

Then again maybe JFK was killed with a 6.5 Remington Magnum, which wasn't announced until 1966. It was a prototype and Remington officials wanted to see how it would perform.

But it think the choice of rifle truly DOES point to the REAL conspiracy!

Italian rifle.....

The Mafia is from Italy!

Kennedy was killed in the south...

The Mafia has its roots in southern Italy!

DEFINITELY A MOB KILLING!


I really think everyone needs some of this....

Take a lot. The rays are particularly strong today!

 

[Sir Galahad]

This is off topic, but speaking of tinfoil hats, I actually saw a guy who wears one! He was a temp where I work and he covered a sun hat with tinfoil and wore it whenever he was outside. He said that those microwave towers you see that are used to transmit TV broadcasts and for communication are actually federal government mind control towers. Needless to say, this guy was not the brightest bulb in the box. He admitted that he "may have", in the past, taken too many synthetic hallucinogens...

 

[Mike Irwin]

I've seen more that a couple of people wearing tinfoil or other types of protective head gear designed to "protect" them from secret government mind control/mind reading rays.

More than just a few street people in the DC Metro area share this belief.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Produce extra momentum ? More than was carried in ?
Ye kanna change the laws of physics Jim.

No, you can't. However, in the case of a bullet impacting something that contains stored energy, you can add momentum. A billiard ball, when struck by another ball, has only the energy transferred from that ball. Shoot a bullet into a thin-walled compressed air tank, and that bullet just might leave the other side of that tank with more momentum than when it arrived.

Recon there is any energy in the human head, say from blood pressure or nerves, that can add momentum to a projectile (including the blood, bone and brain tissue) that blows out the other side? Now for our conservation of energy, that mass exiting the head must exert an equal and opposite force on the head, pushing it in the opposite direction, toward the direction the bullet was fired from.