ND at Costa Mesa show, dealer shot.

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BamBam-31

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Beetle Bailey and I were at the Crossroads of the West Gun Show in Costa Mesa, CA, today, and there was a negligent discharge in one of the main halls. The usual crowd noise momentarily became a deafening silence after the shot rang out, as everyone looked at one another as if to say, "No way...."

:what:

We weren't very close to the actual table where it occurred, but people immediately flocked over to see what had happened. I gathered from several secondhand reports that a dealer had unknowingly handed a young man a loaded .223 rifle. The young man then points the rifle downward and pulls the trigger. BLAM!! The bullet splatters on the concrete and riccochets towards (another?) middle-aged dealer, striking him in the leg. Paramedics and LEO's are there in a hurry and seal the section off with police tape. The dealer's wound is not considered life-threatening, from all accounts.

I passed by the table about five minutes later. The young man and wounded dealer are still there, seated behind the tables. They are being questioned by the sheriffs. Young man looks to be in a daze. He keeps shaking a finger in his ear, like his bells are still ringing. He's sweating bigtime. The wounded dealer looks like he just lost $50,000 at the Blackjack tables. His physical condition looks to be pretty good, however. Thank goodness for that small miracle. Dunno if anyone was arrested as a result. About half an hour later, there's a PA asking dealers to check that all weapons above and below tables are unloaded. Duh.

Some customers were rattled, others found it entertaining. Almost all of the dealers took it rather seriously, however. They all had concerned, disturbed looks on their faces. One was a friend of the guy shot. I asked another longtime vendor if ND's were an occasional occurance at the shows, to which he replied, "No, this is the first time." Most of the dealers tried their best to return to business as usual, but a lot of them began packing their bags early.

Beetle and I were kinda spooked by the whole thing. If I had a nickel for every time I was covered by the muzzle of some poorly handled firearm at the show, man..... What if the ND hadn't been pointed downward? I got to wondering how many bodies a .223 round could pass through and still be a threat. Morbid. Sobering.

Reminds me of something I read on TFL, where a dealer kept a jar filled with rounds collected from the chambers of "unloaded" weapons. It was a pretty sizeable collection, IIRC.

Bottom line: No one was seriously hurt. Hopefully, someone will learn something from this. I think there will be policy change next time around, maybe mandatory zip ties. Who knows? Might be for the best.
 
I posted about this on earlier here: another thread

Yep, it was pretty scary. Upon further reflection, I think this is one of those times when I have to count my blessings. I mean, right now my biggest concern is trying to figure out how to arrange to have pics of my rifles posted on this forum. Things sure get put into prospective when you realize that just a few minutes before the ND, you were eating a hot dog not 20 yards from where it happened and that you were still well within range of the rifle when it was fired :what: . I think I will go ahead and buy another rifle I've been meaning to get but wanted to wait on. Just because life is short. ;)

Take care all,
BB
 
Wow that's scary!

Yeah the crossroad show really did suck! It was my first ever gun show, and damn, so many damn overpriced guns. And most of the handguns were brown, rusted 1911's priced at $500 or more.

What time did the AD occur at? I was at the show today (sunday) from 2:30pm-4pm and people seemed to casually do their own thing. It was a different experience to see people walking around w/ rifles though. Kinda cool :eek:
 
Black Majik Time has no meaning at gun shows, and I guess I am a bad witness, since I have no idea when it happened, but my best guess is about 2:00 PM, so maybe just before you got there. Did you see all the yellow police tape in front of the dealer tables at the front entrance to one of the two halls that are side by side? And the LEO and security people? It happened there, near where the table with the fake AR 15's was. It was kinda weird because since I didn't hear any screaming or shouts of "Medic, medic!" or "You shot me, you :cuss: idiot!" or anything to that effect, I figured it was a ND with nobody injured. Heck, I guess if someone hit me with bullet spray and I was unarmed, I might not yell too much at them since if there is one round in the gun, there could be more.

BTW, I'm not promising that it will be better next time, but try going on Saturday morning next time for slightly better pickings. Also, I wonder what kinds of changes, if any they will have next time because of this ND.
 
The last show I went to, all guns had zip ties through them. I'd never seen that before. I guess it's not too bad of an idea.
 
"Oh, it's okay ma'am, it ain't loaded."
"Well, the gun may not know that, so let's act like it is, okay?" :uhoh:
 
All the guns are supposed to be zip tied at the SAXET shows here but it has been getting really lax and there are very few security folks checking things out.

I know it is a PITA to have all the guns tied up when potential buyers want to handle a firearm before they buy it. I noticed gun dealers getting exasperated zip tieing the same gun 50 times a day.

Don't know if it is an urban legend or not but it seems there were reports of anti's going around the shows pretending to check out the guns then slipping a round in the chamber when he dealer was distracted.

It's for the chillren.
 
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Hmmmm. Just going off the deep end here, but I'd love to see a dealer put a sign on his table saying:

"NOTICE: If you point a gun at me or anyone around me, I will punch you in the mouth."
 
:rolleyes: Bad news. It's a good idea to get in the habit of checking and verifying a weapon is not loaded when handling a gun that has not been in your immediate control. Also, the obvious, FINGER OFF THAT TRIGGER ! but you guys already know that. :D :neener:
 
Rics can still be lethal. How about changing the sign to: "If I see you violating the Four Rules, I will hurt you."

My hands, feet, elbows, fingers, forearms, etc. would be too sore to function after the show.:D

"I don't need no Four Rules, I got Common . . . BANG!. . . sorry, Cledus, sense.":scrutiny:
 
Yeah, I'd prolly leave early too. I hope it wasn't a Rem 700 LTR in .223. There was only one I remember at the last show and I know the shop owner. He had all his guns zip tied though. But then who sells AR-15 in CA. Uppers yes, but no one sells the whole rifle.
 
a dealer had unknowingly handed a young man a loaded .223 rifle
unknowingly !!!!!!!????? That dealer was where the prob sat, fair and square ......... hell, how much does it take to make people accept that any and every gun is always loaded ... and so, before handing over weapon .. clear it .. that in itself would probably have given said dealer a good ''pucker'' as a round came out! .... instead of which ... he apparently acts with total and flagrant disregard for the rules.:rolleyes:

It could of course been so very much worse ... not much imagination needed to contemplate loss of life. The young guy should also himself - have checked for clear .. stage two of stupid time .... but at least he managed to follow one rule ... the one which is to me about the most important .... where the damn thing is pointed.

Hope the media circus does not make a field day outa this ... yet another story that helps ''them'' out.:(
 
Wow!! Sure glad no one was seriously injured!!

This kind of incident really drives home what my Dear Ol' Daddy taught me.
Even if I watched him check a weapon before he handed it to me, he expected, no he required me to check it myself.

Sure hope that lots of people learn from these situations where no one is seriously injured and that they pass the knowledge on to others.

Semper Fi, GySgt
 
I must have just left.....

I was there for a goodly part of the day. Didn't find what I was looking for, but found a couple other things I sort of liked. Didn't hear the shot. That was about the time I left.

Not a great show, but better than no show at all.


Bad news: If Zev Yankshisslosky can make something of it, he will.

Good news: Haven't seen any news of it, yet.

Safety? I've been going to gun shows for over twenty years now. I've never been present when a ND occured.
I drive about forty miles round trip to work every day. In Los Angeles.

Bring on the gun show.
 
I wasn't going to say anything about the incident because it's the last thing that media and gungrabbers need to hear about, but since it was already started... I was there too, about 100ft away if that. I only saw one person injured and that was the dealer. It wasn't too bad because he was standing there brushing the burn marks off his jeans. It looked like a little bit of shrapnel may have hit him or he was grazed because a little later there was a tiny spot of what looked like blood on his jeans about the size of a nickel. His vitals were being checked a little while later probably to make sure he wasn't having a heart attack. I think they should've checked his shorts too! The biggest problem here was the type of firearm involved which I won't say yet.

Now for the rumors and different stories. I heard that the dealer took a live round to demonstrate how the firearm was loaded and that is when the AD/ND occured. As far as who pulled the trigger IF it was pulled, I'm not sure. For all I know the discharge could have occured when the gun was closed. Can you figure out what type of gun yet?
 
I know a Dealer who does a number of gun shows. He has had it twice that a gun became loaded during a show. He checked it before setting out and before it opened second day. Well he packed up and went home a neighbor asked about a gun he had at show so he pulled out the rifle case and handed it to neighbor. WHo removed gun and then removed a live shell from it.
Another time he was doing the check before start of second day and there was a live rd in chamber. I forget which one but one time it was actually the wrong caliber. I have no doubt there are sick enought people to try to sneak in live rds.
 
Oh, it was the FAB-10's? Damn, I knew those abominations were a bad idea, but too many Californians buy those things, so people keep selling them. Sorry for the confusion, I didn't know it was the FAB-10 table. So the wrong dealers got shot? The way the story got around :)rolleyes: ) was that the dealer who is responsible for the ND was the one that got hit, and I saw a lot of wood stock bolt action rifles on his table so I didn't even think about the FAB-10 nearby.

For those who don't know, a FAB-10 is the "fake AR-15" I mentioned earlier. I just mentioned it as a referance point, since I always turn my nose up at that table when I walk past so to me it's a gunshow landmark. The magazine is fixed, and the rifle breaks open from the top, like there is a swivel on the bottom holding the rifle together. Then you can hand load or use stripper clips to load it, then put the rifle back together. If this sounds like a piece of :cuss: way to make an AR, I agree (although I am not an expert on AR's). IMHO, it's not a "new way to enjoy the AR experience" but exists only to get around the AR ban in California. Someone described it as a neutered AR, but I feel it is worse than that: it's not just capacity you lose, but since you have to break the rifle open to reload, a lot of practical uses for rifles is lost. It's the bastard child offspring of an AR and a muzzle-loader.
 
The last show I went to, all guns had zip ties through them

You know, every single rifle I was interested in at the show was zip tied :( and I don't mean to whine, but I like being free to safely clear a firearm and then check bore condition (since my main interest is in milsurp rifles).

Darn, I blame myself. If only I would surrender my principles and be interested in those FAB-10s, maybe I could have checked and cleared the hideous monster and saved us all a bunch of grief.
 
Beetle,

Yup, I do suppose it happened before I got there, cause when I came into the room I saw all the yellow tape already, along w/ the police "guarding" the tables.

That's too bad to hear, plus they had some "evil looking black rifles" that I wanted to check out. Oh well, good thing to know it was just neutered AR's and FAB-10's.

I thought the Paintball guns of AR's and MP5's were pretty cool. But $500 each?! Ouch. They do look real though and all the kids wanted one. Hell, I'll admit, I wanted one too! :eek: :D
 
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