SharpsDressedMan
member
Thanks, Mott. I thought everyone was ignoring me! 
D/A revolvers, enough for todays streets?
- Thread starter ZVP
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Agreed for the most part. I personally would not consider a derringer a satisfactory weapon at anything more that a couple yards. I much prefer a longer barrel and sight radius. Also why
most of my weapons are 8 to 15 rounds. Just hope not to have to use them. But I certainly would not really on 2 shots. Just hope it would not take more, again... shot placement, training, practice, more training. Though I own a .357 mag Derringer, it is not fun to shoot, and not what I would want to use for defense short of a bar fight. But then, I don't go to bars either
george29
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Fact 1: Nobody knows the scenario that awaits them, so to prophesies on how many perps you will have to take care of is a load of Horse <deleted>.
Fact 2: Statistics is a changing variable. I may only encounter 1 perp, you may not be that lucky. Quoting statistics as your reliability factor is asinine.
Fact 3: Revolvers are MORE prone to catastrophic failure than a Milspec Semiautomatic. Before you start calling me names remember I wrote the word catastrophic.
Fact 4: Revolvers have fewer bullets and are slower to reload. Those are facts.
Fact 5: Most people SHOOT better with a Semiautomatic. It has to do with ergonomics.
Fact 6: A perp on certain drugs May not even know he was shot.
Fact 7: A direct hit on the central nervous system will dis
able him immediately.
Fact 8: Most people (including cops) may need more than 6 to stop the perp.
Fact 9: A side from a select few, most perps don't work alone.
Fact 10: There are no facts, just lessons learned in the field.
I carry 3 revolvers (pocket 640, pocket NAA, Shoulder Holster M13). In today's world, one revolver even with reloads is NOT enough if and when your peaceful world becomes a battleground.
Fact 2: Statistics is a changing variable. I may only encounter 1 perp, you may not be that lucky. Quoting statistics as your reliability factor is asinine.
Fact 3: Revolvers are MORE prone to catastrophic failure than a Milspec Semiautomatic. Before you start calling me names remember I wrote the word catastrophic.
Fact 4: Revolvers have fewer bullets and are slower to reload. Those are facts.
Fact 5: Most people SHOOT better with a Semiautomatic. It has to do with ergonomics.
Fact 6: A perp on certain drugs May not even know he was shot.
Fact 7: A direct hit on the central nervous system will dis
able him immediately.
Fact 8: Most people (including cops) may need more than 6 to stop the perp.
Fact 9: A side from a select few, most perps don't work alone.
Fact 10: There are no facts, just lessons learned in the field.
I carry 3 revolvers (pocket 640, pocket NAA, Shoulder Holster M13). In today's world, one revolver even with reloads is NOT enough if and when your peaceful world becomes a battleground.
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sgt127
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Eh. If your primary goal is self defense, you are likely well served with a good revolver. It's ability to run reliably with a crappy grip, upside down while you are on your back firing one handed is a definite plus.
The odds of you actually engaging multiple and determined armed assailants successfully is pretty remote, no matter how many rounds you have. The vast majority of the time, as soon as there is any resistance from the victim, particularly armed resistance, the bad guys will go find something else to do. It's all fun and games until they start getting holes poked in them. One or two, in your personal space that need shooting so they don't kill you first is the most likely scenario.
If, you are of the mindset to take the fight to the bad guy (s). You may want more rounds on tap.
The odds of you actually engaging multiple and determined armed assailants successfully is pretty remote, no matter how many rounds you have. The vast majority of the time, as soon as there is any resistance from the victim, particularly armed resistance, the bad guys will go find something else to do. It's all fun and games until they start getting holes poked in them. One or two, in your personal space that need shooting so they don't kill you first is the most likely scenario.
If, you are of the mindset to take the fight to the bad guy (s). You may want more rounds on tap.
I love revolvers, but I have had more trouble with them than I have autos. Broken springs, un-explained cylinder freeze ups (2 different clean K frames), borrowed a friend's Western (Uberti) .44 mag SA and broke the cylinder lock spring on the first cylinder full (slow fire) etc... If really pressed I would choose an HK USP .45, not because of the capacity, but because I've never had one failure of any kind with them and the .45 caliber needs no explanation. Gimme a USP for defense and a .357 for long range plinking fun.
Revolver is a very viable weapon.
If you shoot it better, or if a revolver suits your particular situation better, then do not select a self-loader just because most others do.
No one can tell you what gun is "enough." No one even knows what is "enough" for you, since they cannot look into the future.
Power and accuracy wise, revolver does not lack compared to self-loaders. What it does lack is ammo capacity.
I carry an M&P40 with extra magazines, but that is not because I think that is "enough."
Capacity wise, the limit is what you can put up with, not what is "enough." Think about it this way: Even soldiers cannot carry what is "enough." Basic combat load when I was in the army was 7 30 round magazines, but that is not because no soldier ever got into battle where they needed more than 7 mags.
If I am forced to have a revolver as a primary, I would carry 2~3 of them. But, that does not mean you should too.
If you shoot it better, or if a revolver suits your particular situation better, then do not select a self-loader just because most others do.
No one can tell you what gun is "enough." No one even knows what is "enough" for you, since they cannot look into the future.
Power and accuracy wise, revolver does not lack compared to self-loaders. What it does lack is ammo capacity.
I carry an M&P40 with extra magazines, but that is not because I think that is "enough."
Capacity wise, the limit is what you can put up with, not what is "enough." Think about it this way: Even soldiers cannot carry what is "enough." Basic combat load when I was in the army was 7 30 round magazines, but that is not because no soldier ever got into battle where they needed more than 7 mags.
If I am forced to have a revolver as a primary, I would carry 2~3 of them. But, that does not mean you should too.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I carry a J frame daily and I can shoot it very well. If I feel the need for more ammo I add a second J frame or a snub nose M10 on my belt. (wish I had a snub nose M12)
Last week I carried a Glock 17 with a extra mag. This week I am carrying my 3" Model 65 with two speed strips. I do not feel as just as well armed this week as I did last week. I understand that I will probably never be able to reload my 65 during a defensive struggle. I am ok with that. The main reason I carry reloads is one is with LSWC just in case something needs shooting like a armadillo or rabid beer can and the other also contains to rounds of shot shell. I do however feel very confident in my abilities with this 65 from contact to 25+ yards. I dont feel as if one is more or less reliable than the other. If I could shoot any of my Glocks as accurately as my 65 it would be a no brainer for me. I find my 65 the most accurate (for me) and comfortable carry gun I own and it feels like an extension of my arm.
engineer88
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- Feb 2, 2009
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- 147
I honestly find it amazing how much some folks are carrying or say that they are carrying every day. Some of my friends think I am nuts. I carry the following every day:
Money clip - used multiple times a day.
Keypouch - also used multiple times a day.
Small titanium whistle on key ring - haven't used it yet other than to annoy the cat.
Small Arc flashlight on key ring - use it about once a week.
Leatherman Skeletool and bit kit - use it about every other day or so.
Naa mini mag loaded with shot shell - have not used it yet, have used a 38 shot shell on a snake in the garage however. It was very effective.
Leatherman Squirt - use it a couple times a week.
Spyderco Endura Wave - use it daily to open boxes, etc.
Kabar TDI weak side - used usually only when I forgot my Endura.
Streamlight PT1AA - use it ever day.
Work phone and personal phone (iPhone5 and S3) - use these more than everything else put together.
Bluetooth headset - sees cubic tons of use.
Stainless steel pen - used about every other day.
Kahr CM9 or jframe 638 - have not used them yet except on the range.
Glasses and sunglasses - used daily.
I have been carrying for 8 years now. I started out with a Glock 19 IWB an extra mag and a jframe in the pocket. Then all the extra gun stuff I carried slowly got replaced over the years with things I use more frequently like multiools, etc. I refuse to carry much more than that on a typical day and I wear a 5.11 tac belt. On late night trips to town for dinner or movie I do add a Ruger SP101, Glock 19 or 26 to my hip in addition to everything mentioned above.
My EDC guns have lasers on them and I keep extra ammo in the car for every gun I own, but not on me, I just can't carry anything more, comfortably every day. I know a gun should be comforting not blah blah. I disagree, it should be both. I am just as accurate with my Kahr as my jframe, SP101, model 64, etc. Why? They have all had trigger jobs to make them comparable. The difference between the triggers on my autos compared to my revolvers is minimal. I did that on purpose. That said I have some single action firearms, I shoot once or twice a month and Istill shoot my DAO firearms better.
When you shoot a double action trigger, there is a way you apply force with your hands to steady the barrel. Once that is ingrained it becomes very simple, especially with two handed shooting to make good hits consistently. It would be hard to explain the method on a forum, but I have taught many new shooters this over the years who shoot much less frequently than I do and they do great every trip out to the range.
To me, you have to make a serious assessment about how much you will use a tool versus how difficult it will be to lug it around. Just having a gun at all puts you ahead of 90+ percent of the population and will hopefully be enough. I pray for you and yours that we will all never have to use that tool.
Money clip - used multiple times a day.
Keypouch - also used multiple times a day.
Small titanium whistle on key ring - haven't used it yet other than to annoy the cat.
Small Arc flashlight on key ring - use it about once a week.
Leatherman Skeletool and bit kit - use it about every other day or so.
Naa mini mag loaded with shot shell - have not used it yet, have used a 38 shot shell on a snake in the garage however. It was very effective.
Leatherman Squirt - use it a couple times a week.
Spyderco Endura Wave - use it daily to open boxes, etc.
Kabar TDI weak side - used usually only when I forgot my Endura.
Streamlight PT1AA - use it ever day.
Work phone and personal phone (iPhone5 and S3) - use these more than everything else put together.
Bluetooth headset - sees cubic tons of use.
Stainless steel pen - used about every other day.
Kahr CM9 or jframe 638 - have not used them yet except on the range.
Glasses and sunglasses - used daily.
I have been carrying for 8 years now. I started out with a Glock 19 IWB an extra mag and a jframe in the pocket. Then all the extra gun stuff I carried slowly got replaced over the years with things I use more frequently like multiools, etc. I refuse to carry much more than that on a typical day and I wear a 5.11 tac belt. On late night trips to town for dinner or movie I do add a Ruger SP101, Glock 19 or 26 to my hip in addition to everything mentioned above.
My EDC guns have lasers on them and I keep extra ammo in the car for every gun I own, but not on me, I just can't carry anything more, comfortably every day. I know a gun should be comforting not blah blah. I disagree, it should be both. I am just as accurate with my Kahr as my jframe, SP101, model 64, etc. Why? They have all had trigger jobs to make them comparable. The difference between the triggers on my autos compared to my revolvers is minimal. I did that on purpose. That said I have some single action firearms, I shoot once or twice a month and Istill shoot my DAO firearms better.
When you shoot a double action trigger, there is a way you apply force with your hands to steady the barrel. Once that is ingrained it becomes very simple, especially with two handed shooting to make good hits consistently. It would be hard to explain the method on a forum, but I have taught many new shooters this over the years who shoot much less frequently than I do and they do great every trip out to the range.
To me, you have to make a serious assessment about how much you will use a tool versus how difficult it will be to lug it around. Just having a gun at all puts you ahead of 90+ percent of the population and will hopefully be enough. I pray for you and yours that we will all never have to use that tool.
SwampWolf
Member
You realize that my Derringer "recommendation" was nothing more than light-hearted sarcasm predicated on your claim that "one or two shots are all that you'll ever need in 99 % of instances"? I would certainly agree that relying on a derringer for self-defense is only a step or two above waving poison ivy at the bad guy-sorry, more sarcasm.
Oh no! Not the "Is six enough?" thread again!
Why not? Maybe something could come out of this one that could save someones tail. If it does its worth it. Maybe someone has been holding out buying the latest greatest high capacity whiz bang and since they only have a 5 shot snub they just leave it at home. Maybe by reading that 5 hits from a snub not only beats nothing but it also beats 5 misses otherwise.Maybe someone has never given it thought. Maybe someone is new and things are said they have never heard. I personally like to reevaluate from time to time to make sure I feel like I am carrying the gun I shoot the best and the gun that is the best for me to carry.
Why not? Maybe something could come out of this one that could save someones tail. If it does its worth it. Maybe someone has been holding out buying the latest greatest high capacity whiz bang and since they only have a 5 shot snub they just leave it at home. Maybe by reading that 5 hits from a snub not only beats nothing but it also beats 5 misses otherwise.Maybe someone has never given it thought. Maybe someone is new and things are said they have never heard. I personally like to reevaluate from time to time to make sure I feel like I am carrying the gun I shoot the best and the gun that is the best for me to carry.
You carry 2 flashlights and 3 knives/multitools? Am I missing something
orionengnr
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- Jan 3, 2005
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- 5,716
My opinion only...
On further thought, though...if I am 1v2 or 1v3 (or worse)...and all of them are armed and returning fire (and that is assuming I get the first shot) then I believe that I am in a world of hurt. In the movies, BruceWillisTomCruisepickyourfavorite may be able to gun down three bad guys without taking a hit. Can you or I? Probably not.
In other words, I think that magazine capacity will be the least of my worries. If there are three people shooting at me, it will be over before I have a chance to worry about reloading...and I will probably not be happy with the outcome.
In your post, you talk about aimed fire. If you have three guys shooting at you...you had best have some serious presence of mind, ice water in your veins and the luck o'the Irish on your side...otherwise you will have some new orifices very quickly.
In case I am not being clear...I am perfectly happy with a single stack semi or a revolver. If the worst ever happens, I hope I have some presence of mind (and the luck o'the Irish wouldn't hurt) but I also believe I have a realistic outlook.
Many people do not want to face up to the fact that there are certain factors that will not be within your control. I would rather have a (low capacity) handgun that I shoot well...and has a reasonable amount of power...than a large number of rounds that I may never use (or, worse, lend a false sense of security).
Cops have to return fire and conclude a fight. You and I have another option--if we are not hit in the initial volley, we may retreat (and should, at all possible speed).
The bad guys know this, too. They will continue a firefight with a cop, because the cop will either kill him or arrest him. Unless the BG has something personal against you, the initial confrontation/exchange may be enough that you will both disengage. He doesn't need to kill you to keep from going to jail; you don't have to pursue him.
You know what? I see this argument all the time, and on the surface it makes sense.
On further thought, though...if I am 1v2 or 1v3 (or worse)...and all of them are armed and returning fire (and that is assuming I get the first shot) then I believe that I am in a world of hurt. In the movies, BruceWillisTomCruisepickyourfavorite may be able to gun down three bad guys without taking a hit. Can you or I? Probably not.
In other words, I think that magazine capacity will be the least of my worries. If there are three people shooting at me, it will be over before I have a chance to worry about reloading...and I will probably not be happy with the outcome.
In your post, you talk about aimed fire. If you have three guys shooting at you...you had best have some serious presence of mind, ice water in your veins and the luck o'the Irish on your side...otherwise you will have some new orifices very quickly.
In case I am not being clear...I am perfectly happy with a single stack semi or a revolver. If the worst ever happens, I hope I have some presence of mind (and the luck o'the Irish wouldn't hurt) but I also believe I have a realistic outlook.
Many people do not want to face up to the fact that there are certain factors that will not be within your control. I would rather have a (low capacity) handgun that I shoot well...and has a reasonable amount of power...than a large number of rounds that I may never use (or, worse, lend a false sense of security).
Cops have to return fire and conclude a fight. You and I have another option--if we are not hit in the initial volley, we may retreat (and should, at all possible speed).
The bad guys know this, too. They will continue a firefight with a cop, because the cop will either kill him or arrest him. Unless the BG has something personal against you, the initial confrontation/exchange may be enough that you will both disengage. He doesn't need to kill you to keep from going to jail; you don't have to pursue him.
Dr_B
member
What are "today's streets?"
Zaydok Allen
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I have never had the feeling that I was undergunned with a revolver. If it I did, then I'd be living in a total crap place filled with crap people. The solution is not to carry a higher capacity gun. It's to move the hell out of that total crap place ASAP.
Playing the odds, banking on statistics, etc - if that's where your head is at why even carry? After all, the odds that you'll need a gun are remote. Look at all the training time and money wasted when you could have been going to spin classes - after all, you are much more likely to have a heart attack than a BG attack....
So IF you're gonna carry, why NOT carry a more capable fighting weapon? I'm a fan of revolvers, but I'm just as accurate and a whole lot faster with a G26. YMMV, but for me it's no contest!
So IF you're gonna carry, why NOT carry a more capable fighting weapon? I'm a fan of revolvers, but I'm just as accurate and a whole lot faster with a G26. YMMV, but for me it's no contest!
tomrkba
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The thread where we go into nauseating detail:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=706225&highlight=six+enough
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=706225&highlight=six+enough
Queen_of_Thunder
member
For everyday carry we women have it easy. We are able to carry just about anything. I even have a purse I could carry a S&W model 29 with a 8 3/8 barrel in if I wanted to.
Its evening, events where we come up short. For evening events he has to carry for both of us.
Its evening, events where we come up short. For evening events he has to carry for both of us.
RussArkansas
Member
I tried but I'm not comfortable with a semi. Too many problems with magazines, etc so I've gone back to revolvers. Primary carry (a bit big for some) is a Rossi 357 6 shot with a 3 inch barrel. (Special run at Academy sports). I'll probably have a Taurus 22lr 9 shot revolver somewhere hidden too. Hope I never have to use either one but if needed that should be plenty.
Zaydok Allen
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Come on Queen!!! Haven't you seen the Kahr ads where they have women in evening gouns carrying? That's totally realistic.....
lobo9er
Member
most gun fights end in like 2.5 shots dont they? Not saying its not possible that you could need more, I guess just say'n.
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