Dangit... More nonsense regarding my Dad and CCW. (long)

[BHPshooter]

Yes, it's me again...

Now, like I said at the end of my last "dad" thread, I wasn't going to (nor had I ever) bring up anything regarding carry or gun rights.

I was outside fixing my truck, when I came in to get warm. My Dad (Mom was there too, contributing) tells me, "It's a good thing that you're not still at USU. They've banned guns on campus for everybody but police."

"Yeah, so?"

"I just thought you'd like to know that they're like U of U, and the LDS church, and..." on and on and on he went, "... It's the wave of the future."

Just *** is that supposed to mean? I thought.

Then he says, "I don't understand why that matters to you."

"You don't understand? Do you understand that BGs don't care what the law is? That they'll take a gun someplace regardless that "the law" says they can't have one?"

My Mom: "So you're saying that you hope that there's someone there with a CCP to fight the BG?"

"Yeah."

My Dad sighs, gives me that patronizing, $#!t-eating grin and says, "statistically, do you know how unlikely it is for you to ever need a gun?"

"Yeah. Statistics look good on paper, but they don't mean much when it happens to you."

He then brought up how likely I am to die in a car crash.

I countered with an observation that I have been driving or riding in cars for 20 years, and never been involved in a real accident, trying to prove that statistics for driving accidents (involving death) haven't affected me.

Somehow, he started in on CCW. I don't remember how we got there, but he said "Do you know what having a Concealed Carry Permit is about? Ego. Everybody that has one is an egotistical pig. You'll never convince me otherwise."

Ha! I've got him now. "What about John?" I asked, mentioning his good friend from Idaho.

"He doesn't have a carry permit."

"Yeah he does, he showed it to me the last time he visited."

"But he doesn't carry."

*** difference does that make? "So you're saying that by getting a CCP and carrying, you instantly turn into an egotistical pig?"

He said, "The only people that get them are egotistical pigs."

"You could go get one, and would that make you a pig?"

Him: "But I'm not going to get one... Why does all of this agitate you so bad? That's not healthy." All the while, the same $#!t-eating grin.

I said, "I get agitated when people give me that look and treat me like a psychopath." At that point, I stormed out to finish my automotive chore.

**************

Alright, some points:

• I never bring these subjects up, he does.
• He, just like my little brother, want me to A) get agitated, or B) give up and not argue, thereby making him feel superior.
• My Dad, as it seems now, is for gun-ownership -- but not carry, self-defense, or gun use.

What am I supposed to do with someone so dense and so stubborn?

How did I become so pro-gun when my Dad is so... screwed up?

Your comments... again? Please? If nothing else, PLEASE help me cope.

Wes :banghead:

P.S. Dear God, please help me to get that job and be able to move out of this place. Amen.

 

[CZ-100]

I would of told him to get the Heck out of my house!

But thats just me.

Opps, I saw the PS its their house. Sorry

 

[spacemanspiff]

last time i was asked why i "needed" to have a CHL and carry, i answered "to compensate for my small sex organ."

that usually shuts up the anti, taking their arguments.

 

[critter]

I told my dad when I got my first carry permit. His comment:
"Hmmm. Does that mean you carry it in a different pocket than you used to?"

 

[Zundfolge]

Your father is an idiot.

Never bring the subject up again.

I think any time he brings up gun rights, CCW, guns, etc, you're response should be "I'm sorry dad but I'm not discussing this with you ... you are too close minded and not willing to accept a logical argument from me so there is no point in getting both of us all worked up over it.", then smile and walk out of the room ... if he follows and/or insists on discussing it tell him "its a closed subject" (repeat as often as necessary).

 

[Penforhire]

My dad and I agree to disagree on quite a number of topics. I'd file it there and never talk to him about it again.

 

[The Tourist]

My Dad was just like yours. Once information went into his synapses, you could not correct it. His was about hats.

Sometime in the 1960's my Dad read an article in the Readers Digest about how 70% of your body heat goes out of the top of your head. From that moment on, everyone had to wear hats. As a rule, I have never worn one except in below zero Wisconsin weather, then I wear a light stocking cap. I'm usually too warm.

It got so that my Dad never said 'hello' to me anymore. As he pulled into my driveway and I'd go to greet him, his salutation was "Where's your hat?" And I would answer him everytime for 40 years, "I don't wear hats."

It got to be ridiculous. If I left to run a ten minute errand, he'd greet me with "Where's your hat?"

I finally changed it to "Eldest boy picks the nursing home." It became our joke.

 

[OF]

Follow Zunfoldge's advice. Don't ruin your relationship with your father over this. He's not going to give you his approval, don't seek it.

- Gabe

 

[greyhound]

The Tourist-

I think my mother read that same article!

Not quite THAT bad though.....

 

[BHPshooter]

Also, a comment that I forgot in the initial post, but along the same lines: "The only reason people carry guns is because of a Napoleon Complex."

Your father is an idiot.

I agree.

Never bring the subject up again.

I think any time he brings up gun rights, CCW, guns, etc, you're response should be "I'm sorry dad but I'm not discussing this with you ... you are too close minded and not willing to accept a logical argument from me so there is no point in getting both of us all worked up over it.", then smile and walk out of the room ... if he follows and/or insists on discussing it tell him "its a closed subject" (repeat as often as necessary).

I certainly won't bring it up. As a matter of fact, I haven't ever been the one who brought it up. I plan to do what you suggested, and never speak to him about it again. It's not worth the aggrevation.

I'll also never tell him about any new gun, accessories, or when I get my permit.

Wes

-----------------------

THIS JUST IN:

He just came up to me. For clarity, earlier today, I went to Checker auto parts for fuzes.

He said, "I was going to ask you after you got home from the store if anybody came in and started spraying the place with bullets." [insert $#!t-eating grin here]

"No, nobody with guns."

Him: "Do you know how easy it is to push your buttons?"

"Yeah, I do. I just don't know why you push them."

Him: "Why? Because I can."

Ladies and Gentlemen, I rest my case. And speaking of egos and Napoleon Complexes, I think he's one to talk.

Wes

 

[Dain Bramage]

Unless we're talking about a situation where you can get hypothermia, maybe 70% of your excess body heat is SUPPOSED to radiate from your head.

 

[ny32182]

The reason he keeps bringing it up is that he knows he didn't win the argument last time, and is irritated that he can't defeat his own 20 year old kid with logic. If he won the argument to his satisfaction, he wouldn't keep bringing it up. But he didn't, so he does. Mind you, his opinion will never change, so the best thing to do is simply refuse to talk about it, like someone said earlier.

I can sympathize with your situation. My parents are somewhat unique in the fact that they are dynamically opposed on just about every economic, social, and religious issue there is, but have been happily married for probably 25 years now. Go figure. Anyhow, my mother is a liberal Democrat, died in the wool anti. My dad is a libertarian and a gun owner, although he doesn't actually shoot that much. At the risk of sounding like... well.... a kid with 'I'm angry at my parents syndrome', I will admit that I can't stand to be any longer than a week while visiting my parents for holidays and whatnot. While I certainly don't agree with my parents on everything, I still consider my visits essential to maintaining a good relationship with them, and compromises have to be made on both sides. For instance. Even though my mother believes that all privately held firearms should be immediately confiscated, she KNOWS that when I visit, I will be bringing my more expensive rifles with me (I don't want them stolen in the event that my place is broken into while I'm gone). In return, I keep them out of sight and out of mind during my visit.

There are also certain topics that are off limits from serious discussion, such as politics. Everyone still makes jokes, though.

That would be my recommendation... just don't talk about it. And move out as soon as possible.

 

[Correia]

Wes, next month I should be certified by BCI to teach the Utah CCW class. Give me a hollar when you turn 21.

Don't ruin your relationship with your Dad. It isn't worth it. Just let him be smug all he wants, doesn't change a thing. When you move out you are your own man, make your own decisions, and live with the consequences.

Ask him if the people hiding under their desks at KSL were wishing for CCW. Ask him if the people at the Geneological library wanted CCW. Ask him if the girls on "rape hill" in Provo would have wanted a CCW. Ask him if my best friend's wife would have liked to have had a CCW when the crack head killed her. Ask the kid at the Fundome as he got shot in the spine. Ask the girl on South Temple who got knifed to death by a complete stranger. Ask anybody who lives off Wall Avenue in Ogden. Ask anybody who lives in Granger. Ask the little girl in Midvale who got kidnapped out of her bedroom and had her skull crushed by a maniac with a claw hammer. Ask the good folks at the High-Fi shop who were brutally killed by being forced to drink Draino and having pens shoved through their ear canals into their brains.

All of this is in Utah. You want statistics. Have your Dad e-mail me. He is more than welcome to come and take my CCW class too. I am an egotistical pig, I'll flat out admit it.

He brings up USU? The cops at USU encouraged me to get a permit while I was there. My how times have changed. Just for your information, keep an eye on the legislature right now, there is a pro gun bill coming up to smack down the Universities and to tell them that they are not private fiefdoms that can flaunt the legislature whenever they want.

What business of it is his that President Hinckley asked us not to carry at church. So does your Dad get divine revelation now? The only thing in that letter was asking us not to carry in houses of worship. We have never been counseled not to carry anywhere else. No, I don't like the rule, and I don't understand it either.

But seriously, don't ruin your relationship. Power struggles between fathers and their adult sons are very commen. I like my Dad a lot more now that I did 10 years ago.

 

[Balog]

Some good advice. I'd recommend a situational approach.

Do you need to keep a good relationship with His Dadness? If so, the enlightened path of avoidance as already outlined would be a good way to go.

If you don't mind burning a few bridges.... I recommend a simple approach.

Your Dad: So I've heard from a random homeless guy that guns are evil, just like the people who own them, and blah blah blah"

You: F*** off, dumbass.

YD: What did you say to me!?!?!

U: You heard me b****.

Repeat until His Dadness doesn't bring it up. Or until he stops talking to you.


But then, I don't suffer fools well.

 

[BHPshooter]

Wes, next month I should be certified by BCI to teach the Utah CCW class. Give me a hollar when you turn 21.

Definitely.

Ask anybody who lives in Granger.

My Dad's parents live in Granger -- my Dad grew up there and went to Granger High. We spend plenty of time there, and he should understand that. Heck, my Grandpa keeps a loaded Luger next to the bed.

I don't know if he doesn't understand or just refuses to.

You're right, I won't burn any bridges.

Wes

 

[P95Carry]

Wes ...... no, don't burn bridges ... invariably blood is thicker than water but ... frustration sure can put that to the test.

In my humble opinion .. and I am a Dad ... albeit of now long married kids ......... your Dad is wittingly or unwittingly .. setting out to alienate you from him .... he is being an immature a** to be honest. He knows how to push your buttons and seems to derive a vicarious pleasure from so doing.

You must therefore I contend .. play him at his own game .. but by that I mean ... ignore ... each and EVERY comment he makes on this subject. ''Yes Dad'' .... ''Sure Dad'' ... ''Whatever you think Dad'' ..... and don't rise to his bait any more. Piss him off for a change!!

If he hasn't realized already that he is pissing you off then maybe it's time he did know ... and from the ''Dad POV'' .. if he wants a son who will still want to come visit in the future after leaving home ... then he'd better perhaps think real hard about what he is doing.

No - does not seem you can educate him at all ..... he appears to suffer from terminal dogmatism.

Good luck to you Wes .. you have at least a lot of friends here .. use us.

 

[BHPshooter]

What business of it is his that President Hinckley asked us not to carry at church[?]

LOL, sorry, I didn't make it very clear that we're LDS. He knows that I'm a little bothered by the new policy agains guns in church, so he likes to rub it in.

You must therefore I contend .. play him at his own game... [snip] ... and don't rise to his bait any more. Piss him off for a change!!

Yeah, that definitely sounds like the best (and funnest) option.

Good luck to you Wes .. you have at least a lot of friends here .. use us.

Thanks, Chris. It means a lot.

Wes

 

[Treylis]

I have sooo much that I want to say, but, basically, I think that he's just not going to change anytime soon. He won't listen to any arguments you make, regardless of how good they are, because he's most likely too wrapped up in being your father, and, well, 'father knows best'. *gag*

I find that one of the better ways to defuse the situation with talking with people who are anti or borderline when they ask me why I feel the need to wear a gun is to tell them how I once got jumped and knifed and I didn't have one. That at least puts somewhat of a dent in the "oh, you're never gonna need that" responses. Unfortunately, if you've never been in that situation personally, just telling him that it happened to some guy you know--even if it's a horde of people you know saying stories like it--will mean nothing.

It doesn't matter how many anecdotes and statistics you roll out, because he's not going to really listen to them. He's too pleased with himself when it comes to being right and being able to piss you off.

Speaking of 'egotistical pigs', perhaps you should point out to him--if you can't help but at least put up some kind of counterargument--that CCW permit holders often commit crimes on a lesser rate than actual police officers. I don't know the exact statistics, but, I'm pretty sure you can find them on here somewhere.

 

[LegalBean]

He then brought up how likely I am to die in a car crash.

I countered with an observation that I have been driving or riding in cars for 20 years, and never been involved in a real accident, trying to prove that statistics for driving accidents (involving death) haven't affected me.

Carrying guns and wearing seat belts serve a similar purpose: to increase the chance of preventing injury should the statistically unexpected occur.

Yet you aren't going to quit wearing a seat belt just because you haven't been in any major accidents in 20 years. Neither should you refrain from carrying a gun just because you may only need it once in 20 or 30 or 40 years. Usually, if you need a gun, you NEED a gun.

Carrying is nothing more than an act of taking responsibility for you own safety and protection. Such an act may also have a benefit to those around you depending on whether you are able to prevent serious bodily harm or death to someone else.

Dennis

 

[ceetee]

Personally, I think the best thing to do is the most honest thing to do.... which is also going to be the hardest:

The very next time he says something to push your buttons, stop right there. Put a very serious expression on your face. Look him straight in the eye. Say, "Dad, I know that we're never going to agree on this issue. Each time you goad me into this converation, you push me a little farther away from you. Soon, you're going to push me right out of your life."

Then get up and walk away. Don't look back. Don't turn around. Don't respond when he says, "Hey, wait a minute, I'm just having fun..."

If you don't warn him now, then it'll one day happen for real.

 

[JohnKSa]

Dad,

Do you remember when you told me you pushed my buttons just because you can?

That's not really true, is it? You push my buttons because you can't win the argument with logic, so you use your intimate knowledge of my beliefs and personality to agitate me. It's sort of a poor substitute for winning.

I will not discuss this topic with you until you:

Tell me the number of defensive gun uses per year are there in the U.S.
Tell me the arrest rate of CCW holders.
Tell me the arrest rate of the general population.
Ask at least 5 CCW holders why they got their permits.

NOTE: Do NOT leave a pause between "...is it?" and "You push..." nor between "...for winning." and "I will not..."

 

[Cortland]

My Dad sighs, gives me that patronizing, $#!t-eating grin and says, "statistically, do you know how unlikely it is for you to ever need a gun?"

I love that argument. Now, in a similar vein my house has never burned down, and I don't know anyone whose house has burned down. In fact, having your house burn down is statistically very unlikely. So who's up for disconnecting their smoke alarm to save electricity/batteries?

After all, that smoke alarm contains radioactive material -- very, very dangerous.

 

[Justin]

Agree with the above advice to continually and habitually point out who will be picking their retirement home.

Best delivered with a big ol' grin.

 

[Zundfolge]

Him: "Do you know how easy it is to push your buttons?"

"Yeah, I do. I just don't know why you push them."

Him: "Why? Because I can."

This is a tactic I see used a lot by antis and pacificst types.

What he's doing is trying to get you to lose your cool so you will prove you are nothing but a psycho, and your interest in guns and desire to carry is further evidence that you are a psycho because only a psycho would want to carry a gun and start yelling during a "civil" debate. (since you mentioned before that he said you needed to see a shrink, maybe he's trying to set you up for some sort of "intervention" by some "professional" headshrinker).

Just don't call him on it or he'll call you paranoid

 

[stv]

You said your grandfather keeps a loaded Luger close at hand - I say, have a chat with him. On friendly terms, of course, and get his advice on the matter.