Dealing with Officers

[Treo]

with those statements in hand, and the witnesses waiting in the hallway prepared to testify at trial, the prosecutor wouldn't have to plea bargain?

Spoken like someone who hasn't a clue how the justice system actually works.

If a prosecutor doesn't have enough evidence to win the case they don't prosecute. If they plea bargin at all it's because they have a slam dunk case and they don't want to waste time W/ a trial ( since the court dockets are overwhelmed anyway) so they offer a choice A) Take the plea bargin and go to prison for a year or two ( or get 5 years probation) . Or B) o to trial and we'll stick your [BLEEP] in prison for 3 times as long.

 

[Old Dog]

Actually, Treo, it's you who are demonstrating your lack of knowledge in how the justice system works. Aside from the fact that CAS700850's profile indicates that he's an attorney and a court magistrate, I agree with his statement and submit that your statement is inaccurate and contradicts itself.

 

[Treo]

and submit that your statement is inaccurate and contradicts itself.

But you would

Got donuts?

 

[george29]

If a prosecutor doesn't have enough evidence to win the case they don't prosecute.

EXCUSE ME???? Mike Nifong ring a bell?

 

[Treo]

EXCUSE ME???? Mike Nifong ring a bell?

Apparently my experience is dead wrong I'm so Ashaaaaamed

But seriously, I think Nifong would be the exception. And let's not forget how his stellar career ended up after that.

 

[george29]

If I had to choose between a life and death setting in a dark back alley or an American courtroom, I choose the dark alley.

 

[Erik]

"The guy in the video was playing the part of the provocateur; a part which frequently entails, as seen in the video, testing those sworn to protect the rights of others by being an [BLEEP] to them.

Not interested in being a provocateur? Truly "neutral?" Conorach's advise sums it up nicely."

That was my initial response. I'll add to it:

If not interested in being a provocateur, and truly neutral, why not offer assistance? Note, I'm not referring to those involved or possibly involved in the criminal activity under investigation; or other criminal activity, for that matter. (Those caviats are why LEOs often perceiving "flags," by the way.)

I've worked two instances where, after the facts came out, multiple officers where tied up dealing with individuals so guarded in their responses that they could not be prudently cleared in a timely matter. Time sensitive instances where the manpower was needed elsewhere; an active shooter and a kidnapping. The shooter escaped to be apprehended at a later date. The kidnap victim was recovered within the first hour following the analysis of the statements of a less guarded individual. That girl deserved cooperation. Fortunately, she received it from someone less ideologically bound than the other. The other, as it turns out, could have provided the same lead as the "hero," he just did not connect the dots. That lack of comprehension is what saved him from facing an obstruction charge.

Oh, and in both instances explanations were offered relatively quickly in the process. Why hear of a kidnapped girl or an active shooter scenario, and in recognizing the urgency of the situation and your lack of involvement, NOT offer up more than the name, rank, serial number, and request for a lawyer some advocate?

 

[misANTHrope]

Apparently my experience is dead wrong I'm so Ashaaaaamed

But seriously, I think Nifong would be the exception. And let's not forget how his stellar career ended up after that.

His stellar career would have ended up just fine if the accused hadn't had filthy rich parents. And three kids would have ended up in jail on the word of a crack-whore stripper.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

I still see no valid reason not to exercise my rights. If your post contains such please point it out to me.

Well, it will likely make the encounter longer, and make you seem more suspicious. Plus, a longer encounter means the cops waste more time on you and spend less time patrolling the streets and catching criminals.(Catching criminals can spare you a lot of trouble, better to not have to use that gun.)

I honestly don't see the point of hassling cops, or why gun forums seem to be so hostile towards cops.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

"If they plea bargin at all it's because they have a slam dunk case "

rarely has anyone been so completely mistaken

 

[Treo]

Rarely has anyone been so completely mistaken

Feel free to back that up any time

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

in your world you believe that prosecutors plead when they have a strong case ?! why pray tell would they give away good cases? in the cases i've been around they plead down weak cases. but then again maybe you have had a different experience. i've seen em charge a guy with a higher charge know that it won't fly and then offering the lessor charge as a "gift".
i think there are a couple lawyers and at least on magistrate here that might have some knowledge to share. i've spent more time in a variety of courts than i like to think about. only once in colorado though maybe you could share what you've seen there that leads you to imagine a lawyer would give away a string case

 

[Thernlund]

I don't think either of you have it right. Attorneys plead things out for a varitey of reasons.

The law is complicated.


-T.

 

[p2000sk]

Is it getting warm in here?

 

[p2000sk]

Might I suggest a hobby?
Cleaning firearms, yes, a great hobby!

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i just read post 25 reading between the lines the number of times is greater or less than 1?

 

[CAS700850]

Just for the record, let me say this. I was a prosecuting attorney for 12 years before I got appointed to the bench. So Treo, I've got a bit of a clue as to how the criminal justice system works.

One of the biggest problems I had as a prosecutor was non-cooperative witnesses. People who didn't want to get involved. People who would make a statement to the cop, but when it came time to come into court and back it up, they were too busy. One case that comes to mind was a family that absolutely terrorized a neighborhood. When the father and son beat the hell out of a guy...actually took a chunk of skull and brain out of his head with a shovel...no one actually saw what happened. Yep, 20 people saw a fight start, but suddenly there were trucks in the way so they couldn't see how the injury happened. Or they turned and went inside. Or they just didn't show up. So, they walked. And shot a neighbor two months later, then had a three hour standoff with the police.

I developed a bit of a reputation as being a hard-ass, in that if I had a witness no-show, and a good enough case, I'd get a couple of cops, and we'd go get that witness. Talk about pissing people off. But, more often than not, if I could get the witness in the courthouse where the defense attorney could see the witness, I'd suddenly get a plea offer. Depending on how goo dthe casse was, and whether the witness was going to be cooperative or not, I may or may not make the deal. That was especially true in Dometic Violence cases.

Nothing made me madder, and still does, than to hear people complain about the lack of police efforts and prosecutors who don't do their jobs, etc. and then turn around and say that they would never cooperate with the system. No, the system ain't perfect, but it's still the best one out there. You're still innocent until proven guilty. No brain scans to prove guilt around here.

As for the idiot prosecutor down in North Carolina, he was an embarassment. he should be prosecuted, and sued.


So, back to the OP, I'm going to keep talking to cops. You do what you want. But don't come looking to me for sympathy if you happen to come into my courtroom and complain about the system if you aren't willing to at least help a bit.

 

[Fred Fuller]

And on that note... this one is done. The level of acrimony reflected in this thread is unseemly.

lpl