How many of you can defend yourself without your firearm

[conw]

Ah. So, perhaps you will outline for us what IS the appropriate level; since marathons are too much, and what "most of us" are already doing is apparently too little?

It sure seems like some here are talking about a life-long commitment to MA, and all others need not apply.

Fitness is probably equally important compared to handgun proficiency, and to martial skills. Spending 1/3 of your time practicing each* is probably a good idea. Just because you don't have time doesn't mean you'll be OK if you need some attribute you don't have.

There is no such thing as too much skill, proficiency, or fitness...

And honestly the "don't have time" thing is a matter of priorities. You post a lot on S&T. If you spent that time working out at home you'd be fit enough not to worry about fitness, IMO. (Okay, maybe you don't worry about fitness! that's fine too.) I know that might sound harsh but it rarely comes down to an actual lack of time, but instead of priorities... which is fine. Just better to call it what it is.

*Gotta be careful with my fractions around here

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I think the balance struck will be a little different for everyone, and that's fine with me. And I think that the main benefit of regular exercise is not that it will sustain you in an unarmed bar fight.

And the odds are seriously against you everhaving to use your handgun for self defense but you still carry it right?

I don't think I've advocated spending the rest of your life in the gym or doing road work in any of my posts (haven't done a marathon yet but I'm down to 2 hours on a half marathon) and if that's how I across I apologize.

What I said and what I'm saying again is that being fit could improve your chances of being able to fight the bad guy off long enough to get your gun out.

I never advocated only using your hands to defend yourself and at one point I stated I am only going to fist fight you for as long as it takes to get the gun out.

 

[Loosedhorse]

What I said and what I'm saying again is that being fit could improve your chances of being able to fight the bad guy off long enough to get your gun out.

How long is this fight to get my gun out going to last? This fight that, as you mentioned, has a very low probability of ever happening?

Perhaps I should be ready to wrestle someone for, what, two hours minimum?

Like I said, do what you want. But like I said, the main benefit to staying fit is not how it will help you in your eventual (probably never) gunfight or bar fight. The average gunfight is over in seconds; half-marathons may help you survive that, but I'm guessing shooting skills will be more relevant.

And honestly the "don't have time" thing is a matter of priorities. You post a lot on S&T. If you spent that time working out at home you'd be fit enough not to worry about fitness, IMO.

Interesting. Why the assumption that I'm not fit?

However, I do appreciate your offer to guide me in rearranging my priorities--while knowing nothing about me. Such arrogance.

 

[gripper]

Damn.....when did this interesting discussion degenerate into a pi$$ING contest?C'Mon everyone-mellow the Hell out.Train your body(varies among ages and body types-all can benefit),work your hardware and work your software.Nobody has all of it,most have some of it.

 

[conw]

Interesting. Why the assumption that I'm not fit?

However, I do appreciate your offer to guide me in rearranging my priorities--while knowing nothing about me. Such arrogance.

I know two things about you for an absolute fact...one, that you posted this:

I can. We all have limited training time. If I become a serial marathoner (and perhaps you know the training time involved), and so short-change my pistol training--and then I run into a situation that requires the skilled use of the pistol to save me...

--which I infer to mean that you feel you do not have enough time to train both fitness and handgun (or else why are you arguing with the person you are replying to, at all?)...surely you didn't actually think anyone in this thread advocated actually running marathons.


...And that you appear to have spent about 45 minutes posting on THR the last 24 hours, and 15-20 min the day before that. You appear to spend at least a few hours per week posting on THR, which is approximately the amount of time you would need to dedicate to fitness in order to reach a reasonable level of proficiency.

I can't imagine anything that could be revealed about you that would make THR appear to be a vital endeavor. I also don't really care how fit you are; I just pointed out that you are arguing that your training time is limited, and you apparently feel it difficult to strike a balance between fitness and handgun proficiency, and that it's a good illustration that, for many people, internet and TV are a bigger priority than fitness or handgun proficiency, or finding an appropriate balance.

If you are fit and have worked out a good balance of fitness dedicated time and handgun dedicated time, great, but you sure didn't make that clear in your previous posts.

 

[Loosedhorse]

which I infer to mean that you feel you do not have enough time to train both fitness and handgun

You infer incorrectly. What I stated was "We all have limited training time." Try inferring that. If it is an incorrect statement, please explain how.

I just pointed out that you are arguing that your training time is limited, and you apparently feel it difficult to strike a balance...

No, you are arguing that I have trouble striking a balance. And offering to help me with my priorities.

And that you appear to have spent about 45 minutes posting on THR the last 24 hours

Ah. And if I had today spent 45 minutes instead reading a book...then I would be fit?

you sure didn't make that clear in your previous posts.

I have no desire to try to make anything clear about me to you. That you therefore decide you can make assumptions about me and write them here, well, that goes to character.

Arrogance.

 

[conw]

Okay then.

 

[Serenity]

I have been working on breaking some bad habits since I started frequenting this forum. I don't text and walk any more, for one. I force myself to walk tall and freely even when I am exhausted and sore from work (after a shift I tend to shuffle). I have never scurried around like a little town-mouse, but I have definitely let a sort of weary appearance settle on me lately. I'm done with that, and I've gotten back in touch with my bad self.

As for self-defense, I am a person of instant decision and don't freeze up in dangerous circumstances. Unfortunately I don't have any real applicable skills for dealing with a violent human, but I am signed up to start classes on the 1st!

I can say that frequenting this forum has focused what has, in the past, been a vague desire to "be prepared" but I didn't have ANYONE around me who was taking action. Spending time, even virtual time, with like-minded people has encouraged me to TAKE STEPS.

 

[royal barnes]

I have some stick and knife training but I'm 67 years old with a bad back and an iffy heart. I'm hoping my cane will keep someone off me but if not I am "proficient with my firearms".

 

[bikerdoc]

Dont know, I always have a gun, knife, and cane with me.( yes, a lot of training) A mindset to avoid, and an aversion to people in general. In my younger days I would fight at the drop of a hat, and sometimes you didnt need a hat. Today, leave me alone and I will reciprocate. Leave me no choice but to fight, and someone will get hurt, maybe me, maybe you, if your stupid enough to try, lets find out.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

How long is this fight to get my gun out going to last?

Ummm, until you get your gun out?

Perhaps I should be ready to wrestle someone for, what, two hours minimum?

I don’t know you so if I am wrong about this please forgive my presumption.

There is a certain type of poster that enjoys debate for debate’s sake and who will go out of his way to start debates just for fun even when he agrees with the position he is debating against. I am not that type of poster and I find them particularly annoying because they just pick pick pick at every post.

If that is the type of poster you are I would appreciate it if you would just back off.

I’m not asking you not to express an honestly held differing opinion but I would prefer you not trifle with me for your evenings entertainment

 

[Loosedhorse]

There is a certain type of poster that enjoys debate for debate’s sake

Just as there is a certain type of poster who assumes that, if someone has a different opinon, it's because that person's wrong.

If that is the type of poster you are I would appreciate it if you would just back off

Same here.

I'm the guy who's been saying that there's more than one right answer here. You seem to say that being less than 20lb overweight is an indispensible requirement of surviving a confrontation, more important than buying a gun. I have maintained that the most necessary thing in a gunfight is...a gun, and the ability to use it well. And I've said that being in shape has a lot of advantages, of which doing better in a gunfight might be a questionable and minor one.

I have stated that I value weapon retention training. I have also said that we should all do what we love, to the extent that is possible.

Debate that.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

You seem to say that being less than 20lb overweight is an indispensible requirement of surviving a confrontation, more important than buying a gun

My apologies, I assumed it was understood that I meant you might want to consider the gym membership instead of another gun.

As to the other I stand by my statement that physical conditioning plays a large role in your ability to physically defend yourself.

 

[Loosedhorse]

I do understand that senses of humor vary. Perhaps to you it does not seem condescending or mean to say that what stands between someone 20 lbs overweight (or someone who is not muscular) and being fit enough for a fight is a gym membership.

Or does not seem that your statement goes against what is supposed to be the big plus of firearms: that they ARE the equalizer, which allows the weaker members of society to prevail against stronger assailants. Instead, apparently only the fit can use guns well.

Some people love martial arts; some love half-marathons; some love firearms. Personally, I'd let people train at what they want to train at in preparing themselves for self-defense. But then, I'm happy admitting that I probably know less about what a person should do than he himself knows.

If I have misinterpreted you, then my apologies.

 

[DFW1911]

I fought competitively for years, so I'm reasonably confident in my abilities.

Of the 4 fights I've been in during my "adult" life (post 40), I've only ever used Aiki-Jitsu or Judo and have emerged the winner (if anyone ever wins a fight) each time. I've not thrown a punch or been punched or kicked: just throws and, when necessary, chokes or locks.

When you know how to fight, you will find tranquility in the storm, as the softer-styled Asian arts suggest.

I teach a self-defense program that concentrates as much on non-confrontational techniques as it does martial techniques. I very much believe one should be able to defend one's self without having to resort to a firearm.

Shooting someone is not cool or without psychological impact as depicted in the movies and television. Ask any combat veteran: the taking of a life is hell, and it's something I hope I never have to do again.

Good question: I hope it gets us thinking.

Take care,
DFW1911

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Or does not seem that your statement goes against what is supposed to be the big plus of firearms: that they ARE the equalizer, which allows the weaker members of society to prevail against stronger assailants. Instead, apparently only the fit can use guns well.

My intent, as I have stated numerous times in this thread, is to point out that unarmed self defense adds another layer to your level of preparedness. I also want to point out that fitness add another layer to your level of preparedness to defend yourself while unarmed or until you get armed.

I never intended to imply that only the fit can use firearms well, however, (and I am expressing this though as diplomatically as I am able with no intent to offend) I don’t understand the mindset that invests all kinds of time and money into armed self defense yet degrades their ability their ability to mount an effective defense by letting themselves get badly out of shape.

I am aware that people have physical limitations, I am aware that not everyone is going to reach pro athletic levels of fitness, or be The Last Dragon, but I am also aware that it is highly unlikely the 5’2 98 pound woman that has been put out as an example in this thread is going to find a criminal that is going to cut her a break because she never even attempted to learn the weapon retention techniques that you know.

Again, if you are serious about being prepared to defend yourself (IMO) then you need to invest some time in unarmed self defense training and if you are serious about unarmed self defense you need to invest some time in physical conditioning

 

[DFW1911]

Again, if you are serious about being prepared to defend yourself (IMO) then you need to invest some time in unarmed self defense training and if you are serious about unarmed self defense you need to invest some time in physical conditioning

I concur 100%. Go to a local Dojo or Martial Arts gym and ask to spar for just 3 minutes, just 3 minutes, and see how you do. Fighting is one of the most taxing experiences we can experience, and often a battle of attrition.

IMHO, conditioning is just as important as the fighting style.

Trunk Monkey makes a great, but difficult, point, as many of us would much rather go to the range and have a great time vs. getting in shape for the sake of health or self-defense.

Your choice. Choose wisely.

Take care,
DFW1911

 

[Owen Sparks]

I have posted this before. A local man went to Memphis TN a while back and got the crap beat out of him at a gas station. This individual is the typical over 40, over weight and out of shape sort you see walking around with “tactical” concealment vests in the Summer. He got in a verbal altercation with some guy while pumping gas and the bad guy punched him. He fell on his weapon side pinned between the curb and his tire while the bad guy mounted and pummeled him. He was totally helpless and physically unable to reach much less draw his very expensive custom 1911. The bad guy beat him nearly unconcious and left.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Everyone divides their time and money as they see fit. But at least be honest about it. if one doesn't want to work out, feels that they will never need physical fitness to save their life, or would rather spend the money on another gun, just say that.

But for anyone to say "I don't have time" on an internet forum, is false on it's face. You had time to get on the internet. You chose to spend it that way instead of getting better at something. And when you say "I can't afford to go to the gym" but buy a new gun, that is also false. You chose to spend the money on the gun.


When you hear someone tell you "I don't have time to practice shooting" or "I don't think shooting skills are really all that necessary", do you infer that person's shooting skill might not be as good as they would then claim? It may be an incorrect inference, but it would be reasonable. So then, when one posts "I don't have time to get in shape" or "I don't think I need to be in good shape", what would be an inference one could draw from that?

Those with the most excuses on why they don't want to do something are usually also the same people who cannot do that thing very well. Maybe that doesn't apply to you, maybe it does. Only you can know.

But let's all at least be honest about what our priorities are, and why.

 

[Sport45]

I hope to never find out if I can defend myself with my gun, much less without it.

What I think I can do has little bearing on it.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Someone has already alluded to Donald Rumsfeld’s statement that you go to war with the army you have not the army you want, that’s the point I’m trying to make you’re going to deal with the situation you have not the situation you want.

My friend woke up with the intruder on top of her and had to fight from there, whatever other physical factors may have been involved she was able to get him off of her and out of the house. In that situation all she had was her hands and all the whiz bang super tacticool gear in the world wouldn’t have helped her.

Whether you train for it or not the possibility exists that you could end up in a situation where you can’t get to you gun or you didn’t have your gun in the first place.

Isn’t one of the concepts of this particular sub forum the idea that there’s more to it than just having a gun? There are a lot of different facets to my overall self defense plan; locking my doors, not distracting myself by texting or talking on my phone at a red light, being aware of what’s going on around me, not answering the front door for folks I don’t know and so on ad nauseum .

IMO if you just ignore unarmed self defense (I’m sorry, I find no other way to express this thought) you aren’t serious about being prepared

 

[The Sarge]

My first instinctive move, in a self defense situation, is a physical not firearm response.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

No one needs to go to the gym or dojo to discover how VERY long 3 minutes really is. Fast skip a rope for 3 minutes. Throw air punches in your living room for 3 minutes. As an (old) ex-AAU boxer I can tell you for certain that 3 minutes can feel like 3 hours. I think it's a fine idea to stay in good physical shape for a BUNCH of reasons. Not the least of which is maintaining my tactical toolkit with the capability to RUN AWAY from a threat! You can't punch, stab, rob or assault what you can't...catch.

 

[X-Rap]

I don't know of anyone who walks around with a gun in their hand pointing it at people that might be a threat so there is always going to be a disconnect between getting your gun into the fight as well as using it effectivly.
Defending an initial attack with confidence only makes sense to me.

 

[Husker_Fan]

Hand to hand fighting is about as fair a fight as you can have. Of course, I'm not in the fighting business and I will avoid one at any cost to my pride. If, however, a fight can't be avoided, I wouldn't want it to be fair.