Detroit woman killed when "hug" discharges firearm

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X-Rap said:
We don't even know if he or the woman were intoxicated.

Police spokesperson said the Officer underwent a field sobriety test at the scene, but not a breathalyzer. He passed the field sobriety test.


Like most tragic accidents in life, a series of bad decisions compounded to ultimately result in a terrible outcome.
 
He used poor judgement and should have been taken in for a drug/tox screening, if he was clean then he has nothing to blame but his own bad judgement.
What about the woman?
If you or I was involved in a killing in Detroit do you think we would be dismissed of any suspicion of drug or alcohol use with a simple field sobriety test done by what probably was a sympathetic officer?
 
This is why I am a big fan of external safeties.

Never underestimate the power of stupid.

A friend of mine, LittleLebowski, was shot through the elbow (45 ACP JHP) by a moron handling a 1911 in the back seat. The story is posted on various forums (with pics!).


The real story has not come out (as theorized by other posters). I believe that dancing with a gun is not a dangerous activity; something else happened. I think the real lesson here is don't play with guns regardless of make, model, holster, or situation.
 
I mean for common sense reasons. Whether alcohol pertains to the shooting is questionable, as the full details have yet to be released. I don't want to be really drunk, and carrying a weapon on me at the same time. Whether you are a LEO or not you can still get into fights. And you may not have all of your reasoning skills with you while under the influence. That was just my opinion. I don't think you should bring your iron to the party.

Edit: As opr1945 just stated, it is in fact against regulation, if the blood alcohol level is 0.02% or more. However my earlier speculation about how he shouldn't have been carrying was not based on this knowlege.
 
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brboyer said:
RmB said:
If there was alcohol involved, then the officer shouldn't have been carrying.
Why? Is that illegal in Michigan, or a violation of department policy when carrying department issued firearm?
opr1945 said:
Yes.
...if their blood alcohol level is 0.02% or above.
You might not be asking and answering the same question.

If I'm reading it correctly, it is not illegal or a violation of policy for an officer to be carrying at a party where alcohol is present/being served. They can be present, they just cannot have an alcohol lever above 0.02% or be impaired

RmB said:
I don't think you should bring your iron to the party.
Do you mean to any party or only one where the CCW is drinking? Remember this occurred in his home...he was armed at his own party.

That is the mother's stance...as well as, that if he did have the gun, it shouldn't have a chambered round
 
He used poor judgement and should have been taken in for a drug/tox screening, if he was clean then he has nothing to blame but his own bad judgement.
What about the woman?
If you or I was involved in a killing in Detroit do you think we would be dismissed of any suspicion of drug or alcohol use with a simple field sobriety test done by what probably was a sympathetic officer?
We are all making a lot of assumptions but yes I have personally given field sobriety testing and administered a portable breath test during an investigation that involved a fatality. My department does have a policy though that mandates urinalysis for an officer involved in any shooting. It is for our own protection as no family ever wants to admit (which I understand) that their loved one was at fault.
 
We are all making a lot of assumptions but yes I have personally given field sobriety testing and administered a portable breath test during an investigation that involved a fatality.
Second one is harder to not be objective with but was apparently not done.
Given a situation in which prison time could be involved if negligence is determined I can't believe the department as well as the officer if he is indeed blameless would want such evidence collected.
 
Do you mean to any party or only one where the CCW is drinking?
I mean a party where he was drinking. It's my opinion that if you invite people to a party where you and others are drinking, the gun needs to stay in your room. Alcohol & Guns do not mix. IMO only..
 
That is the mother's stance...as well as, that if he did have the gun, it shouldn't have a chambered round

She also said that if you think you need a gun at a function like that, then don't go. As you noted, it was his own party. How can he not go to his own party, LOL.
 
as regards sobriety testing... i'll share a little military story, short and sweet.
an e-7 stopped one of my e-4s on duty, and said (in the presence of witnesses) that he smelled alcohol. he called me, as the e-4's immediate supe, and asked me if i smelled alcohol on the airman. i said i did not, to which the e-7 replied that i must 'have a cold or something'. he told the e-4 that 'because it was the holidays', he would let him go back to duty ON MY RESPONSIBILITY, and left immediately, looking satisfied with himself.

FIVE other people heard this, and soon other units heard about the 'drunk airman from ** squadron, and the MSgt who let him off'.

i complained, and made it standing policy in my area of responsibility: if there is ANY allegation of impropriety or impairment, EVER, there WILL be insistence on a breathalizer/ blood test. i personally have undergone a blood draw to PROVE my sobriety, KNOWING i had not been drinking. later is too late; an allegation made can't be proven, but it can't be disproven or unsaid, unmade, or withdrawn from circulation after the fact, either.

had it been me, i would have DEMANDED the breathalyzer/ pee cup. had it been in my authority to demand it of ANYONE ELSE, i would've- not proving sobriety is a disservice to the falsely accused. not proving drunkeness is a miscarriage of justice.

alcohol and guns do not mix.
 
Yahoo news said iwb holster. he was holstering the gun when grabbed from behind.I don't see how this could have happened if the gun was in a holster.
 
had it been me, i would have DEMANDED the breathalyzer/ pee cup. had it been in my authority to demand it of ANYONE ELSE, i would've- not proving sobriety is a disservice to the falsely accused. not proving drunkeness is a miscarriage of justice.
I would have too...but in a possible criminal investigation, especially with the reduced rights of LEOs, it is the responsibility of the investigating agency/officer to make the request
 
Hard to tell what happened based on the limited info and vague details in the news stories. Was the woman drunk or tipsy or sober?

It's possible she accidentally grabbed the gun through his shirt, pulled it out of the holster, and slipped a finger into the trigger guard and squeezed the trigger all instinctively, and not understanding "oh, this is a gun!". This needs serious CSI work and reconstruction with great detail on exactly where and how she and he were standing, where her and his hands and arms and the pistol were arranged.

This is complicated so don't even try to simplify it. No snap judgements here, just withhold judgement while they investigate.
 
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Yahoo news said iwb holster. he was holstering the gun when grabbed from behind.I don't see how this could have happened if the gun was in a holster.
Which begs the question of why he had unholstered it in the first place.

As others have commented, how many versions of the story does this make? I am a little surprised we haven't heard a bunch of interviews of the other partygoers. I can't imagine we will ever know the complete truth here.
 
Whenever I found myself in a "party atmosphere" and was carrying, usually all the time in NYC. I would slip my gun into my "boot holster" where no one, sometimes not even me, could get at it. This way I could enjoy my night without worrying that someone would see, or feel my weapon. I just wore an ankle holster and always wore larry Mayhem or a few other brands of cowboy boots, I don't think I had shoes back then just 10 pair of boots and sneakers. It wans't a place to "carry" but good in the car, and for storage. Never on my person, never dancing, Not a big dancer anyway. More like those guys on sat. night live.
 
No one would have to worry about safeties ,holsters, gun handling, carry methods if people would just not have a round in the chamber. Why is a round in the chamber needed for carry when you have a better chance of getting hit by lightning while going to cash your big winning lottery ticket then using a gun in a quick draw situation or any situation
 
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