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Defensive Rifle

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by GunLvrNLearner, Nov 8, 2008.

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  1. GunLvrNLearner

    GunLvrNLearner Member

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    I have always had the thinking that anyone further from me than a distance that a handgun could reach was of no danger to me and should never be shot at but i am young sand i hear people talk about rifles fitting a defensive need although i dont see it,could you give me scenarios where CITIZENS NOT POLICE would need a rifle for a defensive need??

    I am certain there are these scenarios and i am overlooking


    Also what caliber rifle is idea for a defensive need?

    Thanks
     
  2. JImbothefiveth

    JImbothefiveth Member

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    Rifles are easier to aim than handguns, and are usually more powerful. This can make them a better choice than a handgun even at 7-10 yards. Other people are worried about atackers wearing body armor,(bullet proof vests) but that's very, very unlikely.

    Some people say that you may have to shoot longer distances if you live in a rural area, but this assumes you will need to fire on someone outside your home.

    I'm not an expert on this, and thus will not give any advice as to which one specifically to pick, but ones I've heard to be good for this are the .223/5.56x45, the 6.8mm remington SPC, the 7.62x39, and possibly the .308/7.62x51. I'm not sure about 6.5 grendel, I saw some gelatin tests and the penetration didn't look very good.
     
  3. SpeedAKL

    SpeedAKL Member

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    Rifles have more stopping power and are easier to fire accurately.

    For defensive use, look at 5.56/.223, 7.62x39, and 5.45x39 as those are chambered in rifles that are well-designed for such use. A lot of rifles that would be good for defense are also chambered in .308/7.62 NATO. This is probably overkill for defensive purposes.
     
  4. KW

    KW Member

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    The value of the rifle is that it's easier to shoot, generally higher capacity, and firing a more powerful cartridge then your typical pistol. The FBI's Miami shootout, and the LA bank robbery shootout are both good examples. Wouldn't you rather be the guy with the rifle?

    People talk a lot about "SHTF" and "TEOTWAWKI". Usually what comes to mind is Red Dawn or hordes of Zombies. Some more likely scenarios would be:

    You get woken up in bed to the noise of breaking glass and your dog going crazy.

    You live in an area that was hit hard by a natural disaster (like a hurricane for instance) and now there are looters running amok and no cops to be seen.

    You live in a big city and riots have broken out - the police have fled and looters are burning down buildings nearby and approaching your home or business.

    All of those have happened in the US in the last twenty years.

    As for caliber, probably any rifle caliber will work when push comes to shove. Actual fighting rifles in use with military and police forces around the world are generally .223/5.56, 7.62x39 and .308/7.62x51.
     
  5. Timthinker

    Timthinker Member

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    Both centerfire rifles and a shotguns (12 gauge) produce more power, which we can define in terms of muzzle energy here for comparative purposes, than most handgun cartridges. This factor alone is a good reason to procure one for home defense. Also, handguns can be more difficult to obtain legally in some locations. This also favors longarms in some setttings. While I agree that shooting someone at a distance is a very difficult thing to justify in the eyes of the law, there are good reasons to rely on rifles and shotguns as our contributors have noted.

    Timthinker
     
  6. David904

    David904 Member

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    Pistols are always a compromise. Note that i did not call them back-up weapons. Your battlespace dictates what your most appropriate tool would be for the task at hand.

    A rifle like a 5.56/.223 is an excellent choice due to its ergonomic design, light weight, light recoil, and modularity. Read that as easily modified for the individual shooter's needs or tastes and the light weight and recoil make follow up shots faster and more accurate.

    Ammo choice is the other critical factor. Do a little research and you can find what works well. I personally like Hornady TAP Personal Defense Rounds.
     
  7. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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  8. bang_bang

    bang_bang Member

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    "This is probably overkill for defensive purposes."
    -SpeedAKL


    I thought there was no such thing as killing something too dead?
     
  9. Hoppy590

    Hoppy590 Member

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    well when it goes through the thing you wanted to kill, and kill/ damages something you didn't want to kill.

    touching off a 105 howitzer to defend yourself may not be best.
     
  10. David904

    David904 Member

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    Which is precisely why I use a 5.56 instead of a 105mm howitzer to defend my house. I truly believe that my electronic earpro, while nice, would prove to be woefully inadequate with a howitzer. It's a matter of practicality.
     
  11. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    For me there are two major reasons that anyone familar with guns should be able to recognize immediately.

    First, even at relatively short distance such as one would find in HD scenerios it is much easier to shoot a rifle accurately than a pistol for most people. Positive hits are essential for SD.

    Second, power. Almost all pistols, and most of the common SD caliber pistols, are underpowered. Hollywood has given people faulty ideas about what pistols do to people. A rifle round is a much better choice for immediately stopping a threat if your life is in immediate danger.

    Pistols only have one advantage over rifles. They are smaller and thus easier to carry on your person. The size issue is really the only reason to ever choose a pistol over a rifle.
     
  12. indoorsoccerfrea

    indoorsoccerfrea Member

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    plus you can find high cap magazines for rifles, oftentimes more tahn 30. a hail of lead in a large caliber can be more effective than only 8 shots in the same size. of course, shot placement is vital, but...
     
  13. harqueb.us

    harqueb.us Member

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    Here's some scenarios:

    A bear comes out of the woods and starts eating your dog.

    The police put the beat-down on a black fellow, and all the blacks in the city go on a rampage, and you must defend your home or workplace from the rooftop.

    A loony perches on top of a building and shoots passers-by


    On the caliber question, some excellent calibers are what your standard lever-action rifle are chambered in.
     
  14. TimboKhan

    TimboKhan Moderator

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    Rifles are, almost inarguably, superior defensive tools. Certainly they are not particularly useful when you run to the grocery store or something, but in terms of home defense, they are vastly superior to pistols, the reasons for which have mostly been listed. Clint Smith has an article in Guns a while back that even showed that they are no harder to move around with than a pistol held at full arm extension.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2008
  15. Blacksmoke

    Blacksmoke Member

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    Some years ago, my then Congressman- Pete McCloskey, a WWII Vet and lawyer, was asked what firearm is best for home defense by people with limited training. Now I had a great deal of respect for Pete. He was a Republican Congressman in a heaviliy Democratic district for many years. Only his very fine character got him re-elected time and again. His response to the question, without reservatton, was the M1 Carbine. He saw no reason why senior citizens and everyone else could not "wield a carbine".

    I have to agree with him, especially with the expanding bullets that are availabel nowadays. The .223 has too much penetration for up close work. Maybe these TAP loads address this. I am unfamiliar with them.

    Any of the pistol cartridge semi-auto carbines made by Ruger or Hi Point should provide adequate ballistics combined with two hand control with a shoulder fired weapon. Hard to beat.
     
  16. japaneezy

    japaneezy Member

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    Im surprised nobody mentioned this eariler, but a small carbine will stick out just about as much from you distancewise as a handgun.
     
  17. gazpacho

    gazpacho Member

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    A badguy will run away from a rifle faster than from a handgun. I promise.

    Also, a rifle maked a much better bludgeoning weapon.
     
  18. Water-Man

    Water-Man Member

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    .30 Carbine or a lever action in .357 mag
     
  19. arizona98tj

    arizona98tj Member

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    I see SHTF type scenarios broken into two major types....those occurring with you and yours defending your property (home and/or business) in the city and those occurring with your and yours defending your home and property in the country.

    In the country, the folks with just more than a house on a couple of acres probably has more "stuff" in out lying buildings (and corrals, pastures, etc.). It is one thing for me to respond to a threat where I wake up to breaking glass in the living room. It is an entirely different situation to wake up to my dog barking in the yard and finding someone trying to rustle 10 head of cattle. The tactics and what I respond with to the later would be, IMHO, different than stopping the bad guy in my living room.

    YMMV
     
  20. TimboKhan

    TimboKhan Moderator

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    I mentioned it two posts before you did!:neener: Great minds must think alike, I guess...
     
  21. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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  22. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    How about always?

    I'll say it. Handguns are backup. They are what you use to fight your way back to the long gun you never should have put down in the first place. The reason we spend so much time working to get the best defensive load for a pistol is that they all suck. The only reason we carry pistols at all is that they are more practical than carrying rifles everywhere. When you have time to grab anything else, it should be a rifle or a shotgun. If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

    Your plan should assume that your handgun will fail to stop the attacker, and you should know what you are going to do when it does. This is why I keep a rifle in my truck, and rifles and shotguns in my home. In reality, I may not need them, or have time to get to them, but if I don't have them at all, I won't have the option.

    Many keep ARs for defensive use, if it was in my home, I would use dedicated ammo, like Hornady TAP. My primary is my Remington 870 shotgun, my backup is my M-1 carbine. (My wife loves it.) I keep an SKS in my truck, because it's tough, powerful, and cheap enough that I won't cry if a cop who doesn't know the law decides to confiscate it.
     
  23. rhinoh

    rhinoh Member

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    If you do get in a struggle with a BG it is much harder for someone to take a long gun away from you.
     
  24. Sinixstar

    Sinixstar member

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    Another potential pro for a rifle as SD/HD weapon, is depending on the caliber chosen, recoil is much more easily managed - making an accurate second shot much easier/faster.

    I know there are exceptions to the the statement I am about to make, but if you get into a struggle for your weapon with a BG - you've failed on some level. Doesn't mean you can't fight your way out of it, but...
     
  25. Aaron12

    Aaron12 Member

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    King Ghidora, im pretty sure a burst from a AR-15 to the chest will stop the bad guy, if not kill him, enough to slow him down to pump a few more into him.
     
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