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Do you agree or Disagree?

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by Terry G, May 11, 2020.

  1. 1942bull
    • Contributing Member

    1942bull Contributing Member

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    I understand your point, but I was no suggesting one should carry a gun in violation of the law.
     
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  2. George P

    George P Member

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    For ME and where I go (as in NOT to Walmart or the C-store for milk), it all depends on what I am wearing. If I have my basketball type of shorts with nothing but a drawstring for a belt, then the LCP it is; regular cargo shorts with a belt, them something to fit in my pocket that's a little heavier works just fine.
     
  3. bassjam

    bassjam Member

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    I also have a serious question? Why are you more scared in the city than where you normally roam? I work in the "inner city" of Cincinnati right at the edge of a neighborhood called Over the Rhine, which has historically been a more dangerous part of the city and when I started working there 9 years ago was still the "ghetto". Now it's 50/50 gentrified. I'm not able to carry at work, yet I go to lunch in that area and feel perfectly safe. I've also spent many a light night bar hopping in the area, and again, I felt perfectly safe. I'd certainly carry if I could, but my company prohibits it.

    I also live out in the country in an area considered to be "safe". Our local bank was robbed at gun point about a decade ago. The corner gas station was robbed in the middle of the night 3 years ago. One of my buddy's grandmother, who lives less than a mile from me, had her house robbed and some jewelry stolen. Once day I opened my side garage door and was surprised by 2 pit bulls literally 6 inches away sniffing me. Bad stuff can happen ANYWHERE.

    To the OP's question, I agree to that statement as long as you practice with those firearms as well. My weekday gun is an LCP that stays locked in my truck during work, so obviously I'm OK with a .380 running to the corner store or to pick up pizza. Sometimes I'm just wearing running shorts, and it's not worth the effort to put on something with a belt just to carry a heavier gun to leave the house for 5 minutes. I also typically carry a little NAA .22 while working around the house, and there's been a handful of times when I'm dirty and my boots are muddy and I need to run up to the parts store or gas station and I don't want to take everything off just to get to my safe inside, so I'll venture out into the wild with just that single action .22.
     
  4. BCC1

    BCC1 Member

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    Any gun one practices with on a regular basis and can shoot consistently accurately within the distances you train for, is acceptable. I am not particularly a fan of pocket carry, as I think it requires greater fine motor skills to access quickly, smoothly and consistently. Which means it is more likely to telegraph your intent in a slow manner, giving your aggressor more time to act.
     
  5. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    Hmmm...

    "my minimum is"

    "for me this means"

    Comments like this illustrate something important: the INDIVIDUAL has made a decision on what to with SOME criteria in mind.

    What that criteria may mean objectively and/or subjectively may be a matter for discussion. However, before one challenges the criteria remember how you do so may say more about you than it does about the point(s) you are challenging.

    Comments like "why do you need" and similar are what I'm thinking here.

    There are a couple things going around in this thread:

    1. What to carry/not carry.

    2. When to carry/not carry.

    Carrying based on whether or not you EXPECT to run into "problems" is not really a logically sound basis upon which to center your self-defense routine around.

    Why?

    Because, in general, if you EXPECT the place(s) you're going to might REQUIRE you to use deadly force, then you probably ought to re-evaluate whether you should be going there in there first place.

    In one's routine life, we don't "expect" to run into such problems. Not at the grocery store, not taking a walk in the park, not going out to get one's mail.

    You carry simply because it's part of your paradigm to "be prepared". Because we understand the reality that bad people ARE out there and we CHOOSE to be as prepared for such an encounter IF one should happen.

    Yes, there MAY be specific instances in which you will deliberately seek something for defense. We can all come up with such circumstances where we may not normally be carrying and need to fetch something for a deliberate application of deadly force, like a home invasion scenario or whatever.

    But that's not what we're talking about here.

    IF YOU CHOOSE TO CARRY:

    1. Carry something effective, carry something that fits in with how you need to carry, or if choices are limited, just carry what you have available. You can't be "carrying" if you don't have something with you.

    2. Don't make it a habit of fooling yourself that you can accurately predict when you're actually going to "need" to carry. Threat assessments are all well and good, but those are to be intelligently applied and not part of a "lottery" mentality. The only people who "accurately" predict when an attack is going to happen are those doing the attacking.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
  6. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    If one has actually trained, one may have a few other qualifications to add to that.
     
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  7. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    That bears repeating.

    And so does that.
     
  8. BCC1

    BCC1 Member

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    I don’t get hung up on nomenclature. I prefer content.
     
  9. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    ??

    Well, some fo us do not consider"any gun ...that can shoot consistently accurately within the distances you train for" to necessarily be "acceptable".

    We would specify drawing and shooting very quickly, and shooting with combat accuracy, and rapidly enough to hit a charging assailant several times very quickly , at distances from a few feet to longer ranges.

    We would mention something about minimum terminal ballistics--the penetration and expansion of a service caliber.

    And, of course, reliability.

    I have a .22LR target pistol with which I can shoot with much greater precision than is necessary for self defense. If one cannot handle a fast moving target at very cslose range, neither his accuracy nor the distance at which he trains will matter.

    Where I intend to go does not have any bearing on what I might need to have strapped to my belt.
     
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  10. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    Hard to reply to the OP with a simple "agree" or "disagree"...
    Disagree... with intentionally downsizing defensive option because of a shorter trip.
    IDK if it's a good idea or bad idea. Sometimes I take a heavier gun (larger) because it's a shorter trip and the weight won't make much difference.

    Sometimes it's just my EDC.

    It happens.
     
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  11. bdickens

    bdickens Member

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  12. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    Has a lot of meaning, anyone here would much rather have a 22 or 25acp over nothing at all.
     
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  13. Howland937

    Howland937 Member

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    I went several years of my adult life without carrying anything and without the thought I may someday NEED something. Everyone's thought process is driven by different circumstances, and when I first decided to carry SOMETHING, it was with the thought that my something was better than nothing. Things happened, thoughts changed. Then other things happened and those thoughts changed. Is my decision the best? Maybe not to a lot of people. I think what I do fits my situation best, but it's a learning process and I'm always willing to learn. Needs evolve. What may be best today could be a bad decision tomorrow.
     
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  14. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    The important question is not whether someone might somehow believe something to be better than nothing, but whether it is good enough.
     
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  15. lightman

    lightman Member

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    I strongly agree.
     
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  16. Ed Ames

    Ed Ames Member

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    I’ll just make a personal observation: for most of the past decade, my EDC was a P32 or similar. Basically the sort of gun the OP was considering a small caliber. My “just going to the store for a gallon of milk” gun was generally a mid size 9mm or .45 though I know from experience that I can conceal a big gun well enough for grocery runs.

    Carry choices come down to balancing risks. The risk of some random person at a store spotting a concealed gun after a few minutes of contact is real but generally fairly minor. Low likelihood, generally low severity. The likelihood of a coworker spotting a gun is much higher due to the amount of time they have to make observations, and the severity is also generally higher. So for everyday I chose a gun that is very unlikely to be spotted, and the exceptions go upwards.

    Of course Covid quarantines have set most of that aside for the foreseeable future. Now I work from home, and probably will for the next year or two (assuming folks in my industry don’t just close the offices and adopt work-from-home as the norm). My littlest guns have moved to the back of the safe to wait out the pandemic.
     
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  17. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    If we could do that, none of us would ever have to carry.
     
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  18. Axis II

    Axis II Member

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    Still don’t get why everyone lives in so much fear they can’t walk to the mailbox or mow the lawn without being armed. If that’s your thing go for it but it’s overkill.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
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  19. Jimster

    Jimster Member

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    Wow. This thread was a wake up call for me. The first several years of carrying it was a 1911 and a spare mag. Then threw a Spyderco in my pocket as well. Then gradually over the next several years I find myself with just my LCPII in my pocket pretty much 99% of the time.
    After reading through this thread I got to looking at my little .380. Lint and dust down every single crevice and hasn’t had the mag removed in over a month. Hadn’t shot it in months. I need to step up my game and clean her up real good and go shoot the piss out of it. I was pretty good it but need to keep my “skills” up to snuff. That and fresh ammo.
    Anyhoos, thanks for the great thread. Raises awareness and all that.
     
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  20. Rexster

    Rexster Member

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    “Going to the store for a gallon of milk” can be easily done with my largest handguns, except for the Daniel Defense DDM4V7P. If/When I am too lazy to gear-up with a holster, it is actually quickest and easiest to tuck a medium/large revolver into my waistband. There are two places, on each side of my anatomy, where a large revolver will be quite stable, if I am wearing a belt, and even my bicycling shorts have belt loops.

    I do not own a .22 derringer, or an LCP. They are so small, I would have to hold them “just so,” in my long hands, with my trigger finger held in an uncomfortable way, and I hate having to do that. I do have a Seecamp LWS-32, with an adult-length length of pull, but it is heavy enough that I have to wear a belt, to keep my trousers in place, if I have that substantial assembly of stainless steel in a pocket. So, yeah, a big revolver is my lazy-moment gun.

    When I do pockert-carry, is is with preparation, and intention, so not normally a milk-run thing.

    I will assert that convenience stores and grocery stores are hot spots for crime, so not really the best place to be casual about anything.
     
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  21. WisBorn

    WisBorn Member

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    With the stay at home orders and ranges closed I was very happy when the state range opened. I always shoot my carry guns first with the ammo that was being carried in them. I don't clean them first either. Happy to find no failures with my carry guns. I like my LCP2 and J frame so easy to carry!
     
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  22. Old Dog

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  23. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    If were ever to carry a .22 Derringer, I'd put it on a silver chain and hang it around my neck. That's how I like to wear my talismans.
     
  24. scaatylobo

    scaatylobo Member

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    Said it a "few" times before and I will say it again.

    Until you have to wash your butt hole down the back of your throat [ it was cold black coffee for me ] to get your puckered butt hole,back where it belongs .

    Then you can and WILL know what you want to be carrying at "THAT MOMENT".

    That was my 'moment' and I live it every time I think to leave the house with less than I see as THE problem solver -- under my concealed carry clothing .

    Belt fed and a few dozen friends as well arem = my preference,but in reality all ya got is "What ya Got".
     
  25. sparkyv

    sparkyv Member

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    I've experienced a pucker moment years ago. Squaring up to the threat to shield my loved-ones with laser eyes on and reaching into my (armed) pocket was enough discourage the would-be BG. Thank God. I need to do like you, scaatylobo and relive that experience more frequently to remind me to keep sharp and prepared.
     
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