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Do you agree or Disagree?

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by Terry G, May 11, 2020.

  1. Old Guy

    Old Guy Member

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    If you point a pistol at a felon the one who happens to be where you are! In poor light. You had better have night sights. Me, a 9mm Glock 19. That is all I carry. Outside the belt carry, spare G17 magazine. Cops carry this model of gun, night and day, with night sights. I never go anywhere, on foot. Drive a marked Security Jeep. My Sons Company. In these COVID-19 times, I most often am on my own. Don't go out much really. Back into the garage
    drive out. The few times I have pointed pistols at people (never had to shoot anyone yet) they have gone in to cease and desist mode. Working as a Doorman (Bouncer) in Liverpool UK. From age 25 till 30. Four years at the Cavern Club of Beatles fame, lots of fights! No gun then. But the formula was hit first. So I never was hit in the face, hence, no bent nose. But since living in Gods country. I carry every day. The same pistol always. As gunfights do not come in standard sizes or X # of antagonists and plastic guns are not that heavy. Sixteen rounds ready to go seems OK.
    Swopping guns like fashion statements? Why?
     
  2. drobs

    drobs Member

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    I think the recent church shooting is a pretty good example for reasons to carry a larger gun than a LCP, Derringer, or snubby.
    The question is can you accurately hit what you're aiming at, at longer distances? Can you do a head shot at 25+yds with the gun?

    Measure the isle in a Grocery store or Walmart - can you accurately hit a target at the end of the Isle?
    Sitting restaurant, can you accurately hit a target near the front counter from back where you are sitting and not hit a bystander? Some people can. Some guys shoot in bullseye leagues with snubby 38's. I'm not one of those people. I know my limitations.

    Back in January I flew to Florida for vacation. The Church Shooting was fresh in my mind. I brought my Glock 19 and Ruger LC9S Pro with me. I can accurately hit with both of these guns at 25yds. I debated taking my LCP 380 as it disappears in my pocket and rejected it. I consider it a "Get Off Me" close range gun.

    While in Florida, I mostly pocket carried my LC9S Pro with a spare mag. It disappears well enough into the pocket of my cargo shorts.
    It prints like a wallet or cell phone, when I carry the gun in a pocket holster with a spare magazine in the same pocket. Is that going to be a fast reload? No but I can live with that. I can hit what I'm aiming at with my LC9.

    Previously / last summer we drove to Michigan to visit both our families.
    Where I live in the sticks of Missouri we don't have very many fast food choices. I crave sliders at White Castle every so often. There are no White Castle Restaurants nearby nor within 3 to 4 hours of my house.

    We stopped at a White Castle in Michigan City, Indiana. We ate in the dining area. I was pocket carrying my LCP380. The White Castle shares the building with a Gas Station. After seeing a 3rd gang banger looking person wearing lots of Gold chains walk up the cashier at the gas station - I thought to myself... I should've brought my Glock 19 with me.

    If I needed to use my LCP, I'd need to charge the target to get close. Have to ask yourself, why stack the odds against yourself?
     
  3. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    This is important for all of us to realize.

    We should ALWAYS be treating the subject of carrying and the potential need to use deadly force as an ever evolving learning experience.

    This is part of what THR is all about.

    No encounter is exactly the same as another. All of our experiences are not only different from everybody else's, but different from day-to-day. The laws change. Training evolves. Technology moves on.

    None of us knows everything... but everybody here knows a lot.

    Having a flexible mind, critical of our own actions and knowledge, is essential to the learning process.
     
  4. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    That might destroy your defense of justification.
     
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  5. daniel craig

    daniel craig Member

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    I almost never advocate pocket carry in any but the most extreme circumstances. If you’re going to carry, take it seriously, and I’m my opinion pocket carrying ain’t taking it seriously.
     
  6. Dibbs

    Dibbs Member

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    Better the gun you take with you, than the one you leave home. IME, folks faced with a gun don't gaze at the barrel, and say
    "wait a minute, is that only a .32 ?" .
     
  7. jmohme

    jmohme Member

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    I have a 22mag NAA, and will sometimes carry it as my backup to my EDC.
    I will use the NAA instead of my G20 when I am working horse shows where I perceive very little risk and also don't want accidentally reveal my full size weapon when maneuvering around the arena.
    Some of my potential customers may not be receptive to a photographer carrying a firearm.
     
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  8. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    If I had to defend my life would I rather have a pocket gun (38 snub / LCP) in hand or a Glock 19/23?
    I would rather have the Glock 19/23 so that is what I carry.
    Defending myself in a "good" location would not decrease what I would prefer in hand.
     
  9. Nicky Santoro

    Nicky Santoro Member

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    Agreed. Any gun is better than no gun, and your carry gun has to be convenient or you won't carry it. Yes, I know that one might encounter the Zombie apocalypse, but more likely it will be some punk who will crap his pants and run when your "mouse gun" is pointed at his face. Case in point, a friend was a desk clerk at a motel when a couple of "downtrodden youths" arrived to claim their "fair share" of the receipts by pointing a .22 rifle in his face. He said it looked as big as a sewer pipe from that perspective.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
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  10. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    Here's the thing, though -- in my experience (and the experiences of those with whom I worked who have similar experience), when one needs to produce one's handgun, one usually (I won't say always) needs to produce it quickly.

    I know no one, including myself, who's had to draw his/her handgun, who favors either pocket carry or carry of sub-optimal size, capacity and caliber handguns.
    Ah, yeah -- good luck with that. Again, I simply don't comprehend the notion of carrying any weapon and planning for the best-case scenario.
     
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  11. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Fear? What fear? Fear is not a prerequisite of prudence.
     
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  12. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Perhaps not always in one's home, BUT in the outdoors, if the needed is not immediate, producing a weapon may well constitute a serious crime.

    Nor do I.
     
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  13. Howland937

    Howland937 Member

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    I understand that at any time a person would need to draw their weapon, the thoughts running through their mind should not include "I sure hope this is enough firepower". Nobody wants to be outgunned. But is there a balance or a line somewhere when a person says " screw it...if I gotta carry that to feel safe in this environment, I just ain't going"?
    ETA...referring strictly to the OP's scenario
     
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  14. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    If one does perceive the need to carry a firearm to feel safe in any environment, one should not go.
     
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  15. bdickens

    bdickens Member

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    Maybe.

    I wouldn't bank on it. You'd be surprised at how many punks are not afraid of being shot.
     
  16. Howland937

    Howland937 Member

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    I agree with this. When someone mentions a situation or area they wouldn't approach unless armed, I always feel like they're asking for problems. (Job requirements excluded). Carrying a firearm shouldn't be to make a person feel more safe...or worse, more brave.
     
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  17. drobs

    drobs Member

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    This is what I picture my use of a LCP380 would look like:


    That being said Missouri more or less has a "Stand Your Ground Law" allowing armed citizens to protect others with our firearms.

    A person may, subject to the provisions of subsection 2 of this section, use physical force upon another person when and to the extent he or she reasonably believes such force to be necessary to defend himself or herself or a third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful force by such other person,


    Defending another person, in my book - is going on the offense.
     
  18. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    I get the "need for speed", per se, but that's secondary to having something to draw in the first place.

    And it's not just a matter of "favoring" this or that in carry means and size.

    All carry is a compromise of many factors, and sometimes those factors change in ways which mean your "preferred" carry method and weapon just won't work.

    Given my druthers, I'd love to carry a palm sized, recoiless, large caliber, undetectable infinite repeater loaded with magic armor piercing, heat seeking, incendiary, explody bullets.

    But the reality is I "prefer" to carry my Colt 1991A1 IWB, with a spare magazine. And sometimes I can't carry that in the way I wish because the required dress code, so I either have to carry differently or carry something else that won't disturb the lay of my clothing.

    That might mean pocket carry.

    Heck, maybe I'll be lucky and it'll be Halloween dressed up as a gunslinger with my buscsdero rig and Colt SAA.
     
  19. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    Theres been a lot of talk about Jerry Miculek floating around lately.

    Well some of you guys need to see his video of him doing pocket draw drills.

    If that's not enough to discourage you then theres no hope for you.

    It's simply not an optimal mode of carry no two ways about it.

    That being said it's still a free country for the time being so do whatever makes you happy.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
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  20. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    My go-to Halloween costume was The Lone Ranger.

    I get that there's "workplace concealment" where deep concealment might be required. But when talking about a run to the mailbox or the corner store (there's a reason they're nicknamed "Stop'n'Robs"), or anywhere that one doesn't need to obsess about attire or non-permissive environments, "throwing a --------- [name one tiny gun] in a pocket" is inexcusable. Same for wearing flip-flops and basketball shorts out while running errands. I don't get that either. With my luck, the 10.0 quake we expect would happen and I'd be hoofing it the nine miles (from my closest store) back to the homestead.

    Nope, sorry, again, prepare for the worst case, not the "best case where one might need a handgun."
     
  21. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    But not necessarily the point.

    Sometimes pocket carry is what you have based on circumstances.

    What's the alternative, then? Carry nothing because you can't carry in some other "optimal" mode?
     
  22. Howland937

    Howland937 Member

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    Preparing for the worst is a great idea, but seems kinda subjective and not set in stone. Worst case for some people would be multiple attackers laying in ambush. Worst for a lot of people would be a strung out meth addict seeing a potential target of opportunity. Anything CAN happen to anyone...but there are times that no amount of prep is going to CYA. This thread could just as easily be a debate on training/practice methods, ammo selection, whatever.
     
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  23. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    It's just my opinion, but theres so many folks (including myself) that "make it work" I feel that it's just a null excuse to say that pocket carry is the only way one can carry because theres no other option.
     
  24. Ed Ames

    Ed Ames Member

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    The problem with that statement is that different people can be in different situations even when things are outwardly similar.

    Two people working the same type of job, doing the same types of things, can be in completely different stations for reasons that may not be obvious. All it takes is a slight difference in workplace culture to make a type of carry easy or hard. In some jobs there are coworkers who give hugs, and in others any sort of touching would mean a trip to HR. In some workplaces nobody really cares and the only people who might notice you printing are carrying themselves, in others, it’s normal for coworkers to try and get each other fired and people would love to be able to report so-and-so had a gun just to get so-and-so fired.

    In other words: I think there’s a really good chance that you couldn’t “make it work”, and only think you could because your experience is with a situation that shares a similar name but is in the details quite different. I could be wrong but that’s my theory.
     
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  25. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    "Stand your ground" provisions and concerning the lawful defense of third persons are unrelated, in Missouri and everywhere else.

    Maybe.
     
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