does everyone carry their 1911 cocked and locked?

[Armored farmer]

I know I have the manual safety and the grip safety but.....? I've done it a couple of times but was always nervous about it. I generally carry IWB. Do all you 1911 guys carry with one in the chamber, cocked and locked?

 

[Normandy]

I don't typically carry a 1911, but I have never been comfortable with cocked and locked. When I take them to the range, I take them empty. If I needed to carry a 1911, I would have one in chamber with hammer down, strapped down snugly in the holster. Hip carry.

 

[Sam1911]

Yes. Not "the way JMB intended" or anything like that. Just the fastest, simplest, most sure way of carrying a single-action auto.

Chances are, if you're actually having to fight with your gun, you're going to be playing catch-up -- fighting to keep your gun and keep HIM off of your gun, while you draw your gun and get it into service. Be able to do that fast, and with one hand. "Condition 1" is the way.

 

[mongoslow]

when I carry it , yes.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

As noted above, "Chances are, if you're actually having to fight with your gun, you're going to be playing catch-up -- fighting to keep your gun and keep HIM off of your gun, while you draw your gun and get it into service..."

Ot, just as likely, it'll take you some time to figure out whatinhell is going on, perhaps pushing a companion or child out of the way, assessing the threat, and having to do something more than just COCK a weapon (or, even worse, CHAMBER a round).

It makes no sense NOT to carry a 1911 cocked and locked. Anyone with a 1911 who doesn't carry cocked & locked shouldn't be carrying a 1911... There are other weapons that will suit those folks better.

 

[smalls]

There was literally a thread on this last week. And 100000 of them before that since the beginning of the Internet.

 

[jmr40]

When the gun is in my holster, on my person it is cocked and locked. Anywhere else in condition 3. Loaded mag, no round in the chamber. That goes for all of my semi's BTW regardless of the type.

If you are more comfortable carrying in condition 3 then do so. It is a perfectly acceptable method of carry that is practiced by the US and Israeli military. Probably many others too. With practice it is a lot faster and effective than given credit for.

 

[MikeJackmin]

Condition one is fast and safe, but only with proper holster and technique.

Condition two requires fine motor skills and breaking your grip. It also requires easing the hammer down over a loaded round.

Condition three requires two hands and makes noise.

I prefer my Sig P250 but if I'm wearing a 1911, it's cocked and locked.

 

[chaosrob]

Sure do, no fear on my part either. I have been doing it many years without incident

 

[kBob]

There were times I carried a 1911A1 hammer down on an empty chamber, magazine with but five rounds in it locked into the gun and the gun in a flap holster. Of course I was wearing a OD green pickle suit at the time and forced to carry that way. Fortunately I got a more understanding platoon leader later that was especially comfortable with me carrying a round in the chamber cocked and locked and a full mag in the pistol and a couple of spares. He was a bit weirded out by the fact that I actually used the holster tie down and that I had hundred mile an hour tapes a U shaped bit of coat hanger under the flap of my holster.

I seldom carry 1911 style guns anyway other than cocked and locked on a loaded chamber these days, but I do so in holsters that either have a thumb break snap or have a covered trigger guard area.

I did carry a Star PD cocked and locked. I have a friend that did so with a Star Fire .45 ACP and carried it loose in a plain belt pouch. Not even a pouch made for carry, just a zippered pouch. One day he had the pouch on the back seat floor of his sister's car and reached back to bring the bag up to him from the front seat. At some point the safety had been bumped off some how and a pencil had gotten in the trigger guard. Fortunately the only casualties where the pouch, a can of motor oil, the floor mat and floor of her car, an annominous bit of road way, and some temporary hearing loss.

If you are going to carry condition one, do it in a decent holster.

-kBob

 

[longknife12]

10 roger.......always have.No issues in 50+ years of it.
Dan

 

[woodwrkr]

Yes, absolutely. I carried one of my 1911's IWB condition 1 in a White Hat holster every day for six months or more and frequently checked the thumb safety to make sure it was still engaged and it always was. If it weren't so heavily custom I would still carry it. If you're curious, I carry a G32 now and I worry about it more than the 1911.

 

[RustyShackelford]

SFS....

I do not own any 1911a1 models at this time, but I might get one soon.
I like the Cylinder & Slide SFS design. You can use the safety(ambi) to let the hammer down on a round, then when you draw the pistol & release the safety, the SFS format cocks the hammer back & the pistol can be fired.
It's been R&Ded with both the 1911s & the P35/Hi Power 9mm-.40S&W.

Rusty S
www.Cylinder-Slide.com

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If you're not going to carry a 1911 cocked&locked you should probably carry a different style handgun.

Why do some people feel safe with a Glock with no manual safety but unsafe with a 1911 which has a manual safety and a grip safety?

Back 40+ years ago not many who carried a 1911 gave a second though to carrying cocked&locked because that was the way you carried a 1911. These days with all the false safety hype and so many people thinking guns are for the most part unsafe, way too many are afraid of way too much. Add the fact that over the past 10 to 20 years the move away from a 5" barreled heavy gun to very small very light handguns, you have a large percent of the carry community who are not accustom to carrying a 1911 so it seems dangerous to them. There aren't many 21+ year-old guys who carry a 1911 any more, mostly the 40+ year old guys do. (there are exceptions so don't focus on this part of my post only)

 

[Kynoch]

As noted above, "Chances are, if you're actually having to fight with your gun, you're going to be playing catch-up -- fighting to keep your gun and keep HIM off of your gun, while you draw your gun and get it into service..."

Ot, just as likely, it'll take you some time to figure out whatinhell is going on, perhaps pushing a companion or child out of the way, assessing the threat, and having to do something more than just COCK a weapon (or, even worse, CHAMBER a round).

It makes no sense NOT to carry a 1911 cocked and locked. Anyone with a 1911 who doesn't carry cocked & locked shouldn't be carrying a 1911... There are other weapons that will suit those folks better.

That's simply not true.

 

[chaosrob]

Ever see the Israelis who carry their Hi Powers without one in the pipe? They get them into action pretty quickly. While I do not carry this way I truly believe it is every persons choice to carry how they are comfortable. If a person feels unsafe when they have one in the chamber let them carry condition 3 and use heightened situational awareness. All the mall ninja quick and the dead talk is simply not backed by the majority of situations. Humans have senses other than bravado that greatly improve their chance of survival if they learn to use them.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Ever see the Israelis who carry their Hi Powers without one in the pipe? They get them into action pretty quickly. While I do not carry this way I truly believe it is every persons choice to carry how they are comfortable. If a person feels unsafe when they have one in the chamber let them carry condition 3 and use heightened situational awareness. All the mall ninja quick and the dead talk is simply not backed by the majority of situations. Humans have senses other than bravado that greatly improve their chance of survival if they learn to use them.

I didn't see anyone talking like a "Mall Ninja" in this thread and saying so really isn't a good way to introduce yourself to a new forum.

IMO if you are uncomfortable carrying a 1911 cocked & locked there are countless different formats you can choose to carry instead.

You mentioned the Israelis, while it's true they can bring the Hi-Power into action quickly it's also true they practice loading the gun quickly. I can honestly say I have never seen anyone at any range practicing drawing an unloaded 1911 and quickly loading it and then firing.

 

[chaosrob]

I don't care if you take issue with my terminology anymore than I care for you to tell me what I should and should not carry or how I should carry it based on your personal preference and bias. This is not your forum, you do not speak for me and your opinion means no more to me than mine to you. I did not introduce myself to this forum, I made a post, nor did I invite you to dinner, or a movie.

People should carry what they want how they want to based on their own level of comfort not your opinion

 

[Apachedriver]

If a 1911 isn't your norm, I'd recommend practicing with it empty on a regular basis until your comfortable with the manual of arms. Practice every step from prepping for carry thru presentation and reholstering. You'll gain much comfort and confidence in Condition One for daily carry. Play with safeties even and see what each one does if it helps you to understand it better.

I've used or owned a 1911 since I joined the Army and it's always felt at home for me, although in the beginning it was a little weird being cocked and safe at once. My concern back then was that I might have a negligent discharge when drawing it. That's where your manual of arms familiarity comes into play.

Anytime I had a deployment coming up, I'd practice and "relearn" my use of the M9 from several weeks out and practice it during deployment until it felt natural. A little thing like pushing the wrong way on the safety could cost you, here or there, if the moment of truth arose.

None of the units I served with or operated alongside left the fenceline in-country with their weapons any other way except locked and locked. Of course, there were procedures in place for safety.

But YMMV.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Ever see the Israelis who carry their Hi Powers without one in the pipe? They get them into action pretty quickly. While I do not carry this way I truly believe it is every persons choice to carry how they are comfortable. If a person feels unsafe when they have one in the chamber let them carry condition 3 and use heightened situational awareness. All the mall ninja quick and the dead talk is simply not backed by the majority of situations. Humans have senses other than bravado that greatly improve their chance of survival if they learn to use them.

Just because THEY can successfully carry a H-Power without one in the pipe doesn't mean that you or I can do it...

Situational awareness is great, but sometimes things happen, in crowds, by surprise, and that "solution" may not always be a workable solution. Particularly if you're with a significant other or a child that you need to control or move out of harms way as the attack begins. If it's a complicated situation with a lot of moving parts, bringing a gun into play is difficult enough, and having to thumb-cock ir or chamber a round makes it even more difficult. Less so, if you spend many, many hours practicing that part of the exercise, but I'd be willing to bet that relatively few people carrying that way put in the pratice time.

I've seen the videos and read about the Isrealis who carried BHPs with a round not chambered, as well as Mossad agents who carried .22s and other small bore guns. The part of the story that is seldom mentioned is that all of these folks were HIGHLY TRAINED, HIGHLY SKILLED professionals who spent much of their time practicing and improving their skills. They were all great shooters who had also mastered other martial art skills. They could probably do more damage without a gun than many of us could WITH a gun. (I've also read that many of them carried without one in the pipe because they were often in disguise or dress like the natives, going through crowds and didn't want to have to deal with someone who could possibly grab their weapon and put it into action before the owner could retrieve it. Their "working conditions" may have demanded that method of carry. They didn't have retention holsters back then; that's probably what they use, now. I think the Israelis have made most of their SA guns surplus -- a bunch have been sold through Century Arms over the past couple of years -- and the Israelis now use mostly DA/SA guns, including Israeli-made CZ-pattern guns.

If someone is that skilled, they can carry any way they want -- the rest of us should be a bit more realistic.

.

 

[rondog]

Mine is always cocked and locked, whether it's on my hip, in my truck, or on my nightstand. No slide racking, no hammer cocking, just a tiny click and it's ready for action.

If evil comes, it will come quickly. And when it's in my face I don't want/need any obstacles.

 

[chaosrob]

So you are pushing one form of training over another? Carrying a 1911 style pistol cocked and locked takes a great deal of training to do so safely and proficiently as well. My point is not so much that one is better than another but rather you should never push a person to do something outside of their comfort zone with a firearm. There are a lot of people I know who keep a firearm at home for defense but do not feel comfortable carrying one as part of their everyday life, should they be forced to rethink that as well or give up their firearms all together?

Yes, situational awareness will not guarantee 100% success rate in every situation but nothing does. If you are in a crowd with your carry piece cocked and locked and someone comes behind you and stabs you or shoots you that didn't help much either. Nothing beats the tool between your ears and if it says it is uncomfortable with something bad things can happen if forced/coerced to do otherwise.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

So you are pushing one form of training over another? Carrying a 1911 style pistol cocked and locked takes a great deal of training to do so safely and proficiently as well. My point is not so much that one is better than another but rather you should never push a person to do something outside of their comfort zone with a firearm. There are a lot of people I know who keep a firearm at home for defense but do not feel comfortable carrying one as part of their everyday life, should they be forced to rethink that as well or give up their firearms all together?

Yes, situational awareness will not guarantee 100% success rate in every situation but nothing does. If you are in a crowd with your carry piece cocked and locked and someone comes behind you and stabs you or shoots you that didn't help much either. Nothing beats the tool between your ears and if it says it is uncomfortable with something bad things can happen if forced/coerced to do otherwise.

What several of us are saying is that if you're uncomfortable using a gun as it was DESIGNED TO BE USED (when it is likely to be used), there are other weapons of equal accuracy, with similar or higher capacities, with safeties or other mechanisms that make them just as safe as your unchambered weapon, and which can be made ready for use much more quickly.

You are free to do what you want or to argue that your desired approach makes sense for you.

Even with 100% situational awareness, carrying an unchambered weapon still adds extra critical (unnecessary) steps and delays to what may prove to be a very time critical process. The rest of your arguments about failed situational awareness, forcing folks to give up their home defense weapons etc., seem like little more than smokescreen, does not strengthen your position, and adds nothing relevant to the discussion.

 

[chaosrob]

The gun was never designed to be carried cocked and locked, the thumb safety was an add on by request of the military so that it's cavalry could temporarily safe a loaded pistol It was not a part of JMB's design, see the M1910.
Just because more than one of you is screaming does not mean you are right, I have been listening to a bunch of people down the road from me in Ferguson screaming in unison but they are dead wrong as well. You can call the analogy a "smokescreen" but it is dead on, you want people to carry a gun the way you want them to carry it or it is dead wrong, regardless of their comfort level. That does not seem like a stance situated very well from a safety, or rational standpoint

 

[chaosrob]

Hmm, the thumb safety seems to be missing off my 1905 as well, how was this to be carried I wonder?