TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Is that working for you? I tried that last year on one and was rejected.
Downsides to have a 11.5" AR Upper in a SHTF scenario?
- Thread starter EdLaver
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Is that working for you? I tried that last year on one and was rejected.
Frog48
Member
A major downside to using any NFA item for self defense is that you're gonna get hassled big time by law enforcement, even though the item is properly registered. They're gonna fight tooth and nail to keep it in the evidence locker.
BWA HA HA HA HA!!!
Oh man, sorry, that was a good one.
My 10.5 chronos in the high 2700 FPS range with a Tac16 suppresor on it.
I've got access to two MP5s, and several other subguns, and have zero interest in pulling them out in case of an emergency.
The internet told me that I would be better off with a rubber band, 'cause an 11.5" AR is less effective than a 10-22 shooting subsonics. It is totally unreliable, and I'll get shot by the cops because they think that it's illegal, but should I survive, I'll get sued as well and never get my guns back.
My uber SEAL, Delta, Ranger, and CIA ninja qualified best friend (who just came back from the "sand box" where he killed 300 people with an E-tool) says that the only gun to use in a SHTF situation is a MP-5.
My uber SEAL, Delta, Ranger, and CIA ninja qualified best friend (who just came back from the "sand box" where he killed 300 people with an E-tool) says that the only gun to use in a SHTF situation is a MP-5.
tank mechanic
Member
Wow, that is a lot of cleaning. Cleaning the weapon 30 times in the first eighty rounds. You must need to shoot really tight groups and by what you said in your post you do.Oh yes! The gentleman with whom I spoke about joining this association uses a $4,500.00, custom-built, bolt-action Wichita pistol, with a fixed 36X target scope. Yes, a rifle scope on a pistol...go figure right? That is the unlimited class. One can fire anything that qualifies as a pistol. He is grouping .5 MOA at 100 yards. Wichita Arms' site: http://www.wichitaarms.com/Products/pistols.asp
When I asked him about using my T/C Contender or T/C G2 in 7mm BR, he told me, "Yeah, it'll work ta get ya started an' see if you like the sport..."
These guys aren't serious about their pistols' accuracy...they're obsessive.
When I asked him about using my T/C Contender or T/C G2 in 7mm BR, he told me, "Yeah, it'll work ta get ya started an' see if you like the sport..."
These guys aren't serious about their pistols' accuracy...they're obsessive.
Well, after reading this thread, I better arm myself with a California legal firearm, you know, just in case at the end of the world, I have to "bug out" to California.
As for getting hassled by law enforcement, I'm glad I live someplace that doesn't suck.
As for getting hassled by law enforcement, I'm glad I live someplace that doesn't suck.
CDignition
Member
Ok..Do you do this with Chrome lined barrels?? It is a waste of time on an un-chromed barrel but with a chrome lined barrel, this would be the biggest waste of time I can imagine.
You do realize that all that cleaning is probably damaging the barell more than not doing anything??..
Gale McMillan was a firm believer this was a sham done by barrel makers(Of which he was one), and that it was not needed(He is highly respected everywhere).
Zak Smith
Member
I clean a few times in the first 25 rounds with a new bolt-gun barrel, and then just shoot it.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
The accompanying letter back to me said
"Dates and locations not specific" and that's about it.
trueblue1776
Member
short barrel is just a bit less velocity, I would stick to heavy ammo so you still have decent power at range. Your gun shouldn't be any less accurate with a shorter barrel, it will just shoot lower. But really does couple inches shorter rifle make you feel better? Honestly, it looks neat but...
Break-in a chromed barrel? Never have...big-time waste...Rockwell equivalent hardness of 75. Although, I do seem to recall reading something at Bushmaster's website about break-in and seasoning barrels...even chromed. I will have to look for it.
No, this is w/ a stainless steel barrel. I clean with plastic bristle brushes and cotton mops impregnated with a non-embedding paste to remove copper and powder residue. I seriously doubt that the plastic bristles, cotton mops and non-embedding solution will damage the barrel. After the break-in period, I clean only every 20 to 30 rounds. That is not excessive.
That aside, opinions of proper break-in and frequency of cleaning varies. There is ample room in the shooting world of varying views.
No, this is w/ a stainless steel barrel. I clean with plastic bristle brushes and cotton mops impregnated with a non-embedding paste to remove copper and powder residue. I seriously doubt that the plastic bristles, cotton mops and non-embedding solution will damage the barrel. After the break-in period, I clean only every 20 to 30 rounds. That is not excessive.
That aside, opinions of proper break-in and frequency of cleaning varies. There is ample room in the shooting world of varying views.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Well, after taking a defensive carbine class with an 11.5" barrel yes, it makes me feel better.
Once in the shoot house, I was VERY glad to have that short thing in my hands, and my instructor was impressed for the same reasons.
World of difference "working the arc"
Geronimo45
Member
I believe the army holds an 11.5" barrelled M4 to be sufficiently powerful for 150-200 meter distances, with a max range beyond that (600 meters or so, methinks). Ought to be plenty effective for 75 yards.
Not sure if the OP is talking about a real SBR or one of the M4geries with the 5" flash hider - if it's got the flash hider, all the SBR-related troubles are null and void.
I think Doc's right - if you want a SBR-type weapon at a reasonable price, one of the .223 or 7.62x39 pistols ought to be a pretty good choice - more compact, legal to haul across state lines (with the possible exception of California and other states), etc. I'd opt for a .223 pistol with a suppressor, meself. But its your money and your choice - do whatever you like.
Not sure if the OP is talking about a real SBR or one of the M4geries with the 5" flash hider - if it's got the flash hider, all the SBR-related troubles are null and void.
I think Doc's right - if you want a SBR-type weapon at a reasonable price, one of the .223 or 7.62x39 pistols ought to be a pretty good choice - more compact, legal to haul across state lines (with the possible exception of California and other states), etc. I'd opt for a .223 pistol with a suppressor, meself. But its your money and your choice - do whatever you like.
M2 Carbine
member
I don't have a 11.5 inch barrel .223 but I've got a couple 9 inch barrel Kel Tec PLR .223 pistols and a 14.5 inch barrel Bushmaster M4.
Also a 7 inch barrel Bushmaster Carbon 15 pistol and some "long" .223 rifles.
The 9 inch barrel MV is 2514 fps and the 14.5 MV is 2935 fps using WWB 55gr FMJ. (some ten year old stuff I have around)
As far as short barrel accuracy?
The 9 inch Kel Tec barrel will do this, and I haven't had time to find a load that the gun really likes.
100-200 yard accuracy isn't a problem with a short barrel.
Even standing and using a .223 without a stock a full magazine can be easily emptied into a man size target at 100 yards.
So anyone that can't do it with a rifle isn't spending enough time at the range.
How effective the bullet will be at 200 yards, I don't know, but I doubt there will be much fight left in someone with one or two JSP bullets in their chest.
Also a 7 inch barrel Bushmaster Carbon 15 pistol and some "long" .223 rifles.
The 9 inch barrel MV is 2514 fps and the 14.5 MV is 2935 fps using WWB 55gr FMJ. (some ten year old stuff I have around)
As far as short barrel accuracy?
The 9 inch Kel Tec barrel will do this, and I haven't had time to find a load that the gun really likes.
100-200 yard accuracy isn't a problem with a short barrel.
Even standing and using a .223 without a stock a full magazine can be easily emptied into a man size target at 100 yards.
So anyone that can't do it with a rifle isn't spending enough time at the range.
How effective the bullet will be at 200 yards, I don't know, but I doubt there will be much fight left in someone with one or two JSP bullets in their chest.
M2 Carbine
member
In a real SHTF scenario that would be the last thing to worry about.
Chances are the government will have it's hands full with more important matters.
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