Dragoon vs Walker for Close Range Deer Hunt?

[Pulp]

I would take a close in shot with my Walker. By close I mean right under my tree stand. I'm just not a good enough marksman to try anything longer.

I would also suggest against it if you are not a good tracker, cause chances are the deer is not going to be DRT, and probably won't leave much of a blood trail.

 

[Crossfire]

Idlfi7

If you get a Dragoon, you will end up wishing you had got the Walker. And you will probably end up getting a Walker anyway. Long Live The Walker.

Crossfire

 

[Crawdad1]

How is testing with 2Fg valid when the normal load for a revolver, for what ever reason, is 3Fg? You're handcuffing the revolver by using 2Fg and then saying the results are showing its underpowered for hunting. I'm not buying that argument.

 

[rondog]

Colorado won't let us use BP revolvers for hunting. Bummer. Mine all shoot way high too, but windage is OK.

 

[swathdiver]

How is testing with 2Fg valid when the normal load for a revolver, for what ever reason, is 3Fg? You're handcuffing the revolver by using 2Fg and then saying the results are showing its underpowered for hunting. I'm not buying that argument.

See post #22. Using 2Fg is not handicapping or handcuffing a Walker or Dragoon at all. You can still shoot a horse out from under a man and kill him with the next shot with 2Fg from 50 yards with a round ball.

 

[CraigC]

If you get a Dragoon, you will end up wishing you had got the Walker.

I doubt it. I like the Dragoon because it has most of the Walker's appeal without its disadvantages. I still want a Walker but if I had to choose between the two, it would be the Dragoon hands down.

 

[rodwha]

I'd take the Walker no doubt! It was the pistol that brought Colt back from the grave, and it holds a small rifle load! The loading lever can be fixed...

But I have an Old Army to hunt with so a Walker is quite low on my list of needs.

 

[EvilGenius]

I would take a close in shot with my Walker. By close I mean right under my tree stand. I'm just not a good enough marksman to try anything longer.

Not that it's underpowered, but the good news is that if it misfires you'll just as likely kill the deer by dropping it on them.

 

[the Black Spot]

I would take a close in shot with my Walker. By close I mean right under my tree stand. I'm just not a good enough marksman to try anything longer.

I would also suggest against it if you are not a good tracker, cause chances are the deer is not going to be DRT, and probably won't leave much of a blood trail.

Shot one with an 1860 army at 6 yds. 30 gr of 3f under a round ball. Heart shot. NO EXIT! NO BLOOD TRAIL! Deer ran 30 yds and died, only cuz heart shot. Could barely find entrance hole.
If i did it again it would be with a dragoon 50 gr 3f and a flatnose 1:30 tin/lead bullet, not roundball. You could probably go with an All lead flatnose bullet and be fine.

 

[rodwha]

Interesting. Especially the small entrance hole. I've wondered if using a FN bullet was really warranted, that maybe the Lee conical was good enough, that the RN design wouldn't allow the skin to stretch much.

What brand of powder did you use? Any idea of the velocity?

Did the ball expand any?

 

[the Black Spot]

Interesting. Especially the small entrance hole. I've wondered if using a FN bullet was really warranted, that maybe the Lee conical was good enough, that the RN design wouldn't allow the skin to stretch much.

What brand of powder did you use? Any idea of the velocity?

Did the ball expand any?

Goex powder
Ball did not expand much

 

[swathdiver]

If i did it again ...

Use Swiss or Olde Eynsford next time and make sure the round ball is dead soft. Fellas in Miami use the 1860 Army with Hornady round ball and 37 grains of Hodgen's 777 and drop hogs in their tracks with massive wound channels.

You can change your gun but you don't have to. The Army and Sam Colt intended it to kill a horse and then its rider. Until recently, we've been saddled with low powered powder compared to what our ancestors had during the War of Northern Aggression.

 

[Crawdad1]

Hog hunting with an revolver, now that would be a great time!!!!

 

[hartcreek]

I bought a Uberti Walker Replica specifically for hunting. I looked at the dragoon and decided that charging the Walker with 50 grains would be just fine.

I have been bow hunting deer and elk in thick stuff and recently have been encountering more big bear sign. I was packing my Smith 624 with hot hand loads and my Ivar Johnson/Uberti Buntline but in the thick stuff that 18 inch barrel can be a bit long and even my hotloads for my 624 I am afraid are a bit light with 9 grains of unique and a 240 grain hollowpoint. So when the C store had their sale I picked up a Walker.

Yes it is heavy but about the same as my buntline and at least as powerfull but shorter so I should not get hung up in the brush. I put it on layaway when it was $100 off and the C store even goofed up my billing an not charging my card and giving me credit so I wound up getting it for $190 less.

 

[CraigC]

9.0gr Unique under a 240gr is awfully hot in the .44Spl. The old Skeeter load is 7.5gr and it should yield ~950fps. Either way, a good 250gr Keith bullet at 900fps is more potent than anything you do with the Walker and roundball.

 

[rodwha]

Or he could use a Keith styled conical in his Walker and way outpace that 900 fps. I can outdo that in my ROA as Mike Beliveau showed using T7 and a 255 grn Kaido bullet and got 920 fps with a reduced load of 25 grns.

 

[CraigC]

If I was gonna get frisky with conicals in a Walker, I'd have it fitted with a Kirst gated conversion and rechambered for the .45 Blackpowder Magnum.

 

[rodwha]

That would be frisky!

 

[Willie Sutton]

"If I was gonna get frisky with conicals in a Walker, I'd have it fitted with a Kirst gated conversion and rechambered for the .45 Blackpowder Magnum"


Done

Actually in my case it's not a gated conversion, but still the same result. A chamber reamer and some .460 S&W brass and life is good.

For safety sake I lessened the depth of the chambering and turned the cases just a bit shorter to prevent chambering of smokeless .460 loads, which would not be a good thing for the Uberti. A tenth of an inch shorter is about right.


Were I to want to hunt with an unaltered C&B of large frame persuasion, I'd use a Dragoon. The later the mark, the better. Colt WAS improving things as he went along.


Willie

.

 

[grter]

I would like a Walker that would stand up to continuous frequent use of 60 grain loads (triple 7 or swiss would be nice) without any premature wear and tear.

Is there any way to set up the Walker to handle this.

I am not worried about the loading lever I would just tie it down with a piece of rawhide.

Is it possible considering the design of the revolver.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Yes, there's a way. Arbor seating/ fitting. A really good action fit with bore/chamber alignment. Good .004 -.006 barrel/cyl. gap (.002 with conversion cyl. mentioned above). Awesome gun if setup properly. Plus, you get a 12.5" sight radius rather than a 10.5"". But then again, Dragoons setup this way are just as awesome !!

45 Dragoon

 

[d-a]

Shot one with an 1860 army at 6 yds. 30 gr of 3f under a round ball. Heart shot. NO EXIT! NO BLOOD TRAIL! Deer ran 30 yds and died, only cuz heart shot. Could barely find entrance hole.
If i did it again it would be with a dragoon 50 gr 3f and a flatnose 1:30 tin/lead bullet, not roundball. You could probably go with an All lead flatnose bullet and be fine.

I shot a few medium sized wild hogs with a ROA and 35g Shutzen FFFG. Received a few pass thru's with wheel weight ROA 220g conicals.

These are recovered conicals. I gave up expansion for penetration. I'm averaging 14 inches penetration on wild hogs @10-15 yards



d-a

 

[rodwha]

If 45 Colt performance can be surpassed with a reduced load of T7 a Walker could well outpace that without needing to load flu tilt charges.

There is a guy who uses 2F T7 and near max charges. I asked him why 2F and his response what that it gave more consistent velocities and still got high performance. He could load it with a higher charge and not need any filler to reach the cylinder face.

I'd be a little leery of full charges of T7 in a Walker, but only because I don't know it's safe in the long run. Hodgdon doesn't state, as many do, that the charge needs to be reduced by 15% because it's dangerous, but because it will duplicate the older BP (mainly Goex?) velocities. But it's not as though these were built to just barely be able to handle a full charge of Pyrodex, and a little more would cause a catastrophic meltdown...

 

[hartcreek]

CraigC it really depends on the 44 Special. Since mine is a 1985 limited run Smith in stainless I could have used the Kieth Load of 12 grains of Unique but frame streatchin would occur as would gas cutting so I settled on using 9 grains which is what another loader I know uses for the same gun and has for twenty years. I was using 22 grains of 296 with a 200 grain bullet which worked fine for virgin cases but once fired started sticking.

 

[Slamfire]

even my hotloads for my 624 I am afraid are a bit light with 9 grains of unique and a 240 grain hollowpoint.

Seems very hot to me ! Factory spec loads are in the 6.5 grains Unique range, the 7.5 grain load is the maximum I want to try.

[SIZE="3"][B]4" M624   [/B]			
			
240 LSWC    6.6 grs Unique thrown,  lot UN364 3/9/92 Mixed cases, Brass WLP
T = 70 °F	4-Apr-09		 		
		 			
Ave Vel =	859.6				
Std Dev =	21.7				
ES =	77.85				
High = 	878.4				
Low=	800				
N =	10				
	
240 LSWC    7.5 grs Unique thrown,  lot UN364 3/9/92 Mixed cases, Brass WLP
T = 70 °F	4-Apr-09		 		
		 			
Ave Vel =	965.8				
Std Dev =	23.15				
ES =	65.28				
High = 	986.3				
Low=	921				
N =	12				
		 

[B]44 Spl Ruger Blackhawk 5.5" [/B]	
					
		
240 LSWC    6.6 grs Unique thrown, lot UN364 3/9/92 Midway cases, Brass WLP
T ≈  60-65 ° F	19-Apr-09		 		
		 			
Ave Vel =	875.4				
Std Dev =	25.94				
ES =	109.6				
High = 	914.8				
Low=	805.2				
N =	25				
					
	
	
240 LSWC    7.5 grs Unique thrown,  lot UN364 3/9/92 Midway cases, Brass WLP
T ≈  60-65 ° F	19-Apr-09		 		
		 			
Ave Vel =	1001				
Std Dev =	17.32				
ES =	64.32				
High = 	1027				
Low=	963				
N =	27				
		[/SIZE]