Encounter with Arkansas State Police

[lehcpa]

I'm just venting here. I was stopped for speeding last weekend by an Arkansas State Trooper. As it was dark out, I did everything by the book. Put the truck in park, turn on interior lights, retrieved my wallet before he exited his patrol car, and kept my hands in plain sight. When he arrived at my passenger window, I opened my wallet and discovered that I had left my drivers license on my desk at home. I told him that I did not have it on me and handed him my concealed handgun license (with my photo on it). He immediately asked me if I had a weapon and I told him that I did. He proceeded to lecture me in front of my family about my legal obligation to notify him that I am carrying a weapon. He was on the brink of rage about it. While my recollection was that I had no such duty to notify him as an Arkansas CHL holder, I did not disagree with him. So, he takes my CHL and goes to his patrol car for a couple minutes. Come back to my window and give me a verbal warning for speeding and proceeds to get back on his bandwagon about my duty to notify. Throughout the course of this, I say nothing, but yes sir.

Once I get home, I do my homework and discover that he was incorrect as Arkansas law states that I only have to hand over my CHL when ordered to do so by a law enforcement officer. I emailed the State Police about this incident Monday. I finally received an response from an administrative person stating that I am correct and that he is sorry that I had to contact them about the incident. This is how I interpret his response. He's not sorry that his officer verbally abused me and was wrong about the law. He's sorry that I contacted his office with a complaint. So, like my six year old son, he's not sorry for what happened; he's only sorry that I caught his officer doing it.

OK. I feel much better now.

 

[Frog48]

Even if what the trooper was saying was true, wouldnt presentation of your CHL, in and of itself, constitute notification? Seems to me that you fulfilled any legal obligation to notify.

With that said, I wouldnt get worked up over it. You DID get off without a speeding ticket. It could have been worse... to the tune of an expensive citation.

 

[lehcpa]

I made that point in my email to the state police. I handed it over to him within 15 seconds of his arrival at my vehicle.

 

[maestro pistolero]

He could have given you a ticket for speeding, and driving without a license, yes? I'll bet he gives you the ticket next time. He was incorrect on one point, but he did you a favor as well.

I think you made out pretty well, considering your two infractions for his one technical mistake.

i don't know about you, but I'll take a lecture over a ticket any day.

 

[zxcvbob]

Look at it this way, he got so distracted by his own gun tirade that he forgot to give you a speeding ticket and/or driving without a license.

(actually one of the reasons I've seen *for* notifying whether you are legally obligated or not)

 

[lehcpa]

I would have gladly taken the tickets for those issues rather than the lecture about the law that I didn't break. His job is enforcement; not punishment. I take responsibility for the fact that I was speeding.

 

[timberbeast63]

I guess I'm with those two - no ticket(s) when two could have been issued.

A lot of police aren't up to speed on notification requirements of CCL holders.

It sounds like the trooper knew he was out of line and then decided not to ticket you, but couldn't bring himself to apologize.

 

[Treo]

You really weren't in any position to argue at that point.

I've had a Colorado State Trooper tell me the same thing, he was just as wrong.

I stated that I was unaware of any such law and shut up.

See my (locked) thread "why didn't you inform me sooner?" in this subforum . And my (locked I'm begining to see a pattern here) thread Traffic Stop AAR in the archives.

Chances are the cop knew he was wrong and was trying to intimidate you into doing it anyway.

I am now going to duck before the flames begin

 

[lehcpa]

I did have that thought when I didn't get a ticket. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that he didn't ticket me. I guess the second round of the lecture was what pushed it over the top for me. If I am polite an courteous, I expect the same.

 

[Treo]

Dude, I am 100% in your corner on this one.

A lot of police aren't up to speed on notification requirements of CCL holders

Took me all of 5 minutes to find it on the internet.

Perhaps if they don't know the shouldn't hold court on the subject on the side of the road, yes?

 

[lehcpa]

Nail on the head Treo. His job is enforcement. I am pretty sure that there is no statute in Arkansas law that gives him the authority to lecture me for breaking the law; or NOT breaking the law in this case.

Maybe I'm making more out of this, but I was also not happy about him behaving the way he did in front of my young children and accusing their father of breaking the law. I've talked with my boys about the incident and explained that I was speeding and it was wrong, but I was not wrong about the other issues. I also pointed out that if they are ever faced with this situation, they should do as I did and not disagree and remain polite throughout the encounter.

 

[larry starling]

Butt chewing for not announcing your CHL or ticket for speeding? I would take the butt chewing any day!

 

[lehcpa]

To those who would prefer the lecture to the ticket - Speeding is a traffic violation. I think that being accused of wrongdoing as it relates to a weapon is much more serious than an speeding ticket. As I stated above, I'd gladly taken the citations for the items where I was in the wrong. I guess I'm not willing to sell my legal rights for the cost of a speeding ticket.

And again, what gives him the right to issue a butt chewing to me as long as I comply with his requests?

 

[ccsniper]

im not going to rag on any cops, i do plan on being one someday. but i also live in arkansas, so i have a little bit of knowledge on this. me and my buddies went out camping a couple of weeks ago, where we were was i guess a very big party spot. it was about 1:30 in the morning when 4 sheriffs patrol cars race up, they jump and start screaming "GET AWAY FROM THE VEHICLES!!!" (oh and yes everyone had brought their guns) so we back up hand on our heads. the sheriffs keep us at gunpoint, pickup my sks, see its unloaded and throw, yeah throw it into the back of my truck. i have two nickel size chunks of wood missing. those marks werent there before that night. they didnt take us away but gave us a lecture on not keeping guns loaded (they werent). my friend is a marine and the other a national gaurdsmen. thats why we think they didnt try anything like putting us in handcuffs or anything.

 

[Treo]

sheriffs patrol cars race up, they jump and start screaming "GET AWAY FROM THE VEHICLES!!!"

And this is acceptable to you?

But I was also not happy about him behaving the way he did in front of my young children and accusing their father of breaking the law

Would you have been so upset if you were alone?

 

[ccsniper]

no, my dad saw the marks and almost started to yell at me for not taking care of my guns. when i told him the story he wanted to sue.

 

[lehcpa]

Treo,

It just troubles me to have my children see an officer act that way as I teach them to respect authority.

 

[Treo]

when i told him the story he wanted to sue.

Smart man.

Butt chewing for not announcing your CHL or ticket for speeding

He announced W/ in 15 seconds. How much sooner did you want him to announce?

COP: Good even-
CITIZEN SHUT UP I have to tell you about my gun

Let me know how that works out for you

 

[vtoddball]

I'm with the OP. Having a badge doesn't mean you can treat your FELLOW CIVILIANS poorly when you are being treated courteously. I also agree that it's not their job to punish. Ticket or don't ticket. When they go off like this it's just a power trip. Thankfully, I've rarely run into police like this.

Does anyone(cop or not) think they are going to successfully change someone's attitude/opinions with a 10 minute, in your face lecture? If anything, it'll probably just foster resentment. Any time I've been in a similar situation(usually minus cop), I don't even remember what was said, just how much I hated the SOB screaming in my face and how weird the jumpy veins or little mole on the face were and how embarrassed I was, etc.

I'm also getting irritated with this trend of cops not knowing the law. I don't blame them necessarily, I think that it's the result of lawyers/politicians making so many freakin laws that no single person can keep track of what they are any more. I think a lot of cops are just starting to guess and hoping no one calls them on it.

 

[Caimlas]

I'm going to have to go with "you got lucky" crowd. I've actually gotten "out of" several tickets while carrying (or at least haven't been given several when I thought I would), making my record clean since marriage - and my wife's, not.

Sure, the officer wsa a bit of an unfriendly type about the CCW/CCL, but you saved probably $50+ and whatever insurance premium that'd have increased.

 

[razorback2003]

Arkansas Points

To the above military guy out with his buddies camping - There is no law that says you must keep long guns unloaded when out and about. You could have had the SKS loaded with one in the pipe and a full magazine in a gun rack or right next to you and not broken a single law. Long guns are not considered weapons in Arkansas like handguns. Anyone may carry one loaded or unloaded, concealed or unconcealed. Those cops telling you to keep them unloaded are full of garbage. If my gun was THROWN and had damage, i'd be getting the department to pay to fix my gun at a gunsmith. They had no right to take your SKS and tear it up on top of holding you guys at gunpoint like a bunch of felons. Seriously look into at minimum trying to get your gun fixed....if you have the money look into making those power trip cops remember not to do that again (SUE). There are a few bad apples in law enforcement that need to be weeded out and this would be the way to do it.

As far as the traffic stop, the state trooper cut some slack regarding the moving violations, but ran his mouth a little too much as far as the handgun. We are all free to our opinion like those who complain to the police for getting a speeding ticket and make a scene. He didn't take your gun and damage it like the guy out camping. He just ran his mouth and about all you can do is complain to his supervisor because you didn't receive any 'damages' (roughed up, confiscated gun, torn up gun).

 

[NonConformist]

So as long as he didnt get a ticket its ok for a cop to do whatever he wants even outside what the laws require?

And you wonder why cops act this way still? Brilliant!

 

[sacp81170a]

Arkansas statute requires that you be in possession of both your CHL and your state issued photo ID(or military ID) while carrying. You can lose your CHL for such a violation. Count yourself extremely lucky that he didn't recall the exact requirements of the law a little better. He could have kept your CHL and had it revoked. I wouldn't push it any more if I were you. Also, Arkansas requires you be in possession of your DL while driving, so you were in line for a ticket for that, at least.

Once I get home, I do my homework and discover that he was incorrect as Arkansas law states that I only have to hand over my CHL when ordered to do so by a law enforcement officer.

Better do a little more homework:

5-73-315. Possession of license — Identification of licensee.
(a) Any licensee possessing a valid license issued pursuant to this subchapter may carry a concealed handgun.

(b) The licensee shall:

(1) Carry the license, together with valid identification, at any time when the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun; and

(2) Display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer.

You were waaaay in the wrong. You got off easy.

 

[Hubster]

How was he "waaaay in the wrong"? By forgetting his driver's license? He certainly didn't fail to produce the permit when demanded by the officer. In fact, it appears no such demand was ever made by the officer, yet the driver volunteered his permit. The driver went well beyond his legal duty other than the fact that he had mistakenly left his driver's license at home. Such is a super minor violation.

I can't imagine how that would correspond to the driver being "waaaay in the wrong."

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I don't know about any of you, but my auto insurance rates go up (a lot) if I get a speeding ticket. I'll take an erroneous lecture over spending several hundred extra dollars for insurance for the next three or five years any old time.