Encounter with Arkansas State Police

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Valid ID

I still have the cutout from what my old AR concealed handgun license came in. It is the same cheap cutout used for hunter ed cards in Arkansas and it does list that it must be carried with valid ID and listed are military ID, passport, and AR driver license and state issued ID. Texas is another state that requires you to carry your photo id with your CHL and their CHL for quite some time has had a picture on it pulled from your DL, as Arkansas has finally wised up to do in the 21st century. My TN handgun carry permit can be carried by itself in TN (it has a photo pulled from my TN DL), but if i go to Arkansas or Texas, i still have to keep my DL with me...Texas requires notification....Arkansas does not unless asked for your CHL.

It is correct that your name be pulled up by ASP on their database through just a name query alone. I had it done when i moved and could not remember my CHL number (I didn't want some idiot getting a CHL i no longer use that hasn't expired to run around with it and carry).
 
lets us know how it works out, if it gets past the speculative stage
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Let me rephrase for those with a snarky attitude. One's lawyer could argue that "valid" merely means accurate. I don't think anyone is suggesting we argue semantics with short fused troopers. In fact it would be stupid to argue with ANY LEO as you will always lose. I think we can all agree that the semantic/legal/constitutional arguments should be made in court, where there is at least a pretense of civility, as opposed to the "might makes right" scenarios played out on "routine" traffic stops.
 
"I still have the cutout from what my old AR concealed handgun license came in. It is the same cheap cutout used for hunter ed cards in Arkansas and it does list that it must be carried with valid ID and listed are military ID, passport, and AR driver license and state issued ID."

i think this takes care of the speculation
 
Arkansans,too morally weak to stay in Tennessee,too physically weak to make it to Texas.:):neener:
 
im not going to rag on any cops, i do plan on being one someday. but i also live in arkansas, so i have a little bit of knowledge on this. me and my buddies went out camping a couple of weeks ago, where we were was i guess a very big party spot. it was about 1:30 in the morning when 4 sheriffs patrol cars race up, they jump and start screaming "GET AWAY FROM THE VEHICLES!!!" (oh and yes everyone had brought their guns) so we back up hand on our heads. the sheriffs keep us at gunpoint, pickup my sks, see its unloaded and throw, yeah throw it into the back of my truck. i have two nickel size chunks of wood missing. those marks werent there before that night. they didnt take us away but gave us a lecture on not keeping guns loaded (they werent). my friend is a marine and the other a national gaurdsmen. thats why we think they didnt try anything like putting us in handcuffs or anything.
__________________
17 and counting... again!!!

same thing happened to a friend on his own land. he was riding around after dark in on of his fields when the game warden drove out to him with his lights flashing. Game warden starts questioning him about what he was doing. Riding around on my on land of course. GW decides to nsearch his truck. he pulls out his cased,unloaded Rem 700 and in his best Inspector Clusoe voice exclaimed "ah ha, what do we have here?" Pulls his rifle out of the case and throws it into the bed of his truck. My friend tells him to be careful. " You're in enough trouble boy, shut up." Of course he LET him go after the harrassment and gun abuse. yazoo County MS about 5 yrs ago. Don't even get me started on the State Troopers. I'm sorry but it is US against THEM.
 
I guess I'm not willing to sell my legal rights for the cost of a speeding ticket.

And again, what gives him the right to issue a butt chewing to me as long as I comply with his requests?
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If it bothers you that much, you should have said something to him. If he's wrong, then he's wrong, and thats all there is to it.

I, however, would have been glad to get off without a ticket, especially considering you were without your DL. I'll be the first to tell a cop (or anyone for that matter) if they are wrong or out of line, but listening to a cop blabber about a nonexistant law vs getting 2 tickets is a pretty good trade off imo.

Again, if it really bothers you, say something about it. If it doesnt, then let it slide. They are fellow civilians just like you, just because they have a badge doesnt make them God's chosen that can do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whomever they want.
 
Mike,

I felt there was nothing to gain by engaging in an argument with an officer at midnight on a dark two lane road. I did however follow up with the state police office and received the response as noted in my original post.
 
Well, you had an opportunity to educate him. It all worked out in the end. You affronted the wrong by contacting the commander, and the commander made well with an apology. As I see it, life happens. In the future, print out the law, and keep a copy in your wallet or with the proof of insurance. Now, you wanna revisit the speeding and no license?

Doc2005
 
Sorry if this hurts a little...

apologies in advance. I'm concerned about the lessons we teach our children. In this incident, the kids had the opportunity to learn some lessons, but I think perhaps a few vital lessons were missed here.

For instance, children should be taught to respect authority, but children should also understand that people make mistakes:

Daddy was speeding, that was a mistake.
Daddy was driving without his driver's license. That was a mistake.
The officer was incorrect about the law. That was a mistake.
The officer was impolite. That was a mistake.
The officer returned to Daddy's car and lectured Daddy. That was mistake.
Daddy didn't take the time to explain these lessons to the children. I think that was a mistake, too.

No offense is intended. I'm just pointing out that we have opportunities to teach many lessons to our kids.
 
In Arkansas your CHL is a formal, state issued form of ID. Even without the new picture format.

Sorry, SACP, but it is.

If you want to vote in Arkansas you may produce your CHL as valid ID at the polling place.

Ironically, you cannot carry into the polls, but you may use card to verify your ID.

This doesn't skirt the fact that he shouldn't have been speeding (I have seen too many idiots fly by me on 540 here and I hate them...this includes ASP who do not have their lights on)

This doesn't skirt the fact that even the picture card states that you have to have a valid state issued ID on you while you are packing. You shouldn't leave home without ID due to the fact that should something awful happen to you it makes finding your family easier.

BUT, there is no excuse for a state trained LEO who specifically carries the name of his state on his badge to be an AZZwhole, especially when it is exceptionally likely that he full well knew the laws. And when dumb-butt there handed him a state issue ID CHL the trooper should have asked why he was not also getting proof of insurance, registration and a valid DL!

Not turning into the tirade monster who may have enjoyed scaring children into thinking daddy was going to jail. Really good way to earn the respect of kids who know their daddy isn't a common thug type.

I have carried for quite some time and update myself frequently on the laws pertaining to CCW in Arkansas.

Both parties were in the wrong and the "civilian" did violate traffic laws, but at point did being an LEO entitle one to being a butthead? Either enforce the law with arrest or ticket, or shut up and let them go about their business.

I am so tired of seeing Arkansas cops use the badge as a source of bully power.

For example...

13 years ago I was walking home from a friends house at 4 a.m.
As I was crossing a parking lot a Springdale (hits close to home for you huh?) cop hits his lights and zooms up to me and hits his mike.

He says, "FREEZE".

I stop.

He takes my ID and calls me in. He even says to dispatch that he has one on the run. Fat boy would have still been giving chase if I was running.

No wants, no warrants, no records.

So I get lectured about how normal people don't walk around at 4 a.m.

Then the Butt-head proceeds to follow me home in his unit. He was waiting for my ''criminal moves''. A civic minded officer would have offered me a ride in the passenger seat in order to see to it that I made it home safely. (It has happened to me when I lived in Denver, CO. Maybe they know who pays their salaries and understand what civic duty is...Hmmm)

I have other stories of cop to civilian abuse that happened to me (and I wasn't breaking laws or "being suspicious") in Arkansas if you want 'em.

I realize you are going to stick up for your brothers with badges, but this the first time in the many posts of yours that I have read that have just completely disgusted me.
 
I still have the cutout from what my old AR concealed handgun license came in. It is the same cheap cutout used for hunter ed cards in Arkansas and it does list that it must be carried with valid ID and listed are military ID, passport, and AR driver license and state issued ID.
Click to expand...

Thanks razorback2003, that's probably what I was thinking of but couldn't remember. Does anyone with one of the new CHL's have a similar list?

If you want to vote in Arkansas you may produce your CHL as valid ID at the polling place.
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You can also produce a utility bill at the polling place, but that doesn't make it valid ID for carrying with your CHL. The two are entirely different issues.
 
If it gets me out of a speeding ticket he can lecture me on anything he wants right or wrong.
 
I have been stopped for speeding enough times that I have found it best to do exactly what you did. Be polite, stay calm and answer questions thoughtfully if you wish to answer them. Whether the officer was right or wrong, polite or not, it seems to be always helpful to stay calm and be polite.
 
Valid ID

Well, IANAL either, but according to the expanded explanation, the OP'er had an EMT license and a firefighter ID (one would be State, one Local) government issued ID. That would truly seem to satisfy the valid, state issued ID question.

Alabama Family Man
:cool:
 
Police reflect society as a whole and with that said we are becoming in my
opinion less polite, more arrogant society, I prefer to call it the Jerry
Springer syndrome.:D
 
You can also produce a utility bill at the polling place, but that doesn't make it valid ID for carrying with your CHL. The two are entirely different issues
Click to expand...

No,no,no.

Your utility bill isn't issued by the state you live in. And then you must factor in the the fact that he wasn't trying to defraud the cop by trying to present himself as another person.

You still haven't addressed the fact that he should have been arrested/ticketed or left in peace.

Cops scaring kids is not good P.R.
 
The people arguing about identification here are idiots. First of all, this is a gun board, speeding tickets and whether you have ID when you get pulled over is NOT the topic of this board. The point of this thread is that an officer went off the deep end when he should NOT have, and that is the ONLY thing that should be discussed here. The fact that the OP forgot his license is completely and totally irrelivant. And for anyone here to say they've never forgotten their own license would be a lie.

The fact that he "let him off" is no excuse what so ever to act like an idiot and an ******* in front of someone's kid.

Furthermore, if that was my kid, I would then have to have a discussion with him about how cops are not your friend and you always have to be suspicious of them. Not something we should have to teach our children. :rolleyes:
 
"Furthermore, if that was my kid, I would then have to have a discussion with him about how cops are not your friend and you always have to be suspicious of them. "

no! say it ain't so!

i guess you missed post 51?

and the irony in thaqt poat where you label other as idiots is priceless. thanks for the giggles
 
same thing happened to a friend on his own land. he was riding around after dark in on of his fields when the game warden drove out to him with his lights flashing. Game warden starts questioning him about what he was doing. Riding around on my on land of course. GW decides to nsearch his truck. he pulls out his cased,unloaded Rem 700 and in his best Inspector Clusoe voice exclaimed "ah ha, what do we have here?" Pulls his rifle out of the case and throws it into the bed of his truck. My friend tells him to be careful. " You're in enough trouble boy, shut up." Of course he LET him go after the harrassment and gun abuse. yazoo County MS about 5 yrs ago. Don't even get me started on the State Troopers. I'm sorry but it is US against THEM.
Click to expand...

i have nothing against them. heck if i were them, and i had to come up on a bunch of possibly drunk armed guys, i would more than likely done the same thing. luckily i dont drink so there was no alcohol. thats probably the other thing that kept them from trying to take us to jail.
 
There is no law that says you must keep long guns unloaded when out and about. You could have had the SKS loaded with one in the pipe and a full magazine in a gun rack or right next to you and not broken a single law.
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can you show me where you get this info, i might just keep my shotgun behind the seat with some in the tube. not one in the chamber, just in the tube.
 
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