DKSuddeth
Member
Since this was Harris County, nothing is ever going to be done about this. People wonder why LEO bashing gets started? Here is a chief reason.
Expired CHL - Vehicle searched
- Thread starter Adrianos
- Start date
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Thefabulousfink
Member
Heck, write the UCLA.....
While normally silent on 2A issues, they have been known to bust some chops for illegal searches.
While normally silent on 2A issues, they have been known to bust some chops for illegal searches.
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
Still, a formal complaint will go into their file, which may be discovered in a later case where the harm is greater.
Thefabulousfink
Member
Well, I have carried an expired hunting license in my wallet for 3 years before a girlfriend threw it away (the license, not the wallet). It didn't mean that I was lugging around a rifle the whole time or about to go poaching. Having expired licenses doesn't mean that you are a criminal, just that you are a lazy slob.
dave_pro2a
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It's easy to tell the guy "go lodge a formal complaint and/or sue them."
But the fact is, the victim still has to live there. If you think that the police, in this instance, are above retaliation you're idealistic. A formal complaint would probably only get the victim herrased, ticketed, arrested, etc.
I once (politely) stuck up for my rights during a traffic stop. That officer let me go... but proceeded to pull me over several times over the next 2 months "just to check on my registration." BTW, that's illegal in my state.
If there was money in this guys case, surely the attorney would have mentioned it (like a shark smelling blood). Even if there was a case, he'd have to seriously think about the potential consequences for pushing it -- because it could end up causing him severe emotional, financial and physical harm.
This is the attitude we're up against (generally speaking of course).
http://www.ramikenterprise.com/
It is us versus them (in their own minds). We are expendable, in their eyes. Look at that tat and realize they WILL kill you, whether or not you're guilty of anything-- if they feel threatened, and they think doing so means they will go home that day.
But the fact is, the victim still has to live there. If you think that the police, in this instance, are above retaliation you're idealistic. A formal complaint would probably only get the victim herrased, ticketed, arrested, etc.
I once (politely) stuck up for my rights during a traffic stop. That officer let me go... but proceeded to pull me over several times over the next 2 months "just to check on my registration." BTW, that's illegal in my state.
If there was money in this guys case, surely the attorney would have mentioned it (like a shark smelling blood). Even if there was a case, he'd have to seriously think about the potential consequences for pushing it -- because it could end up causing him severe emotional, financial and physical harm.
This is the attitude we're up against (generally speaking of course).
http://www.ramikenterprise.com/
It is us versus them (in their own minds). We are expendable, in their eyes. Look at that tat and realize they WILL kill you, whether or not you're guilty of anything-- if they feel threatened, and they think doing so means they will go home that day.
Blackfork
Member
Contact the TSRA.
They might be looking for this case.
Email: [email protected] and cut and paste the story in. I think I would call and talk to James Dark, the Executive Director: 972 889 8875.
And: [email protected]
I hope our good LEO members here are noticing this story. Sworn Texas officers. Are they protecting the Constitution and Bill of Rights? No. Are they enforcing Texas Law? No. Are they following an illegal order? Possibly. Is there any dissent among ranks about it? None seen. Are they abusing their authority and powers granted by the State? Quite possibly. Are they wasting a citizens time and destroying their own reputation? Absolutely.
Would an off duty LEO have experience this same event? You tell me.
The police are teaching us about the police.
They might be looking for this case.
Email: [email protected] and cut and paste the story in. I think I would call and talk to James Dark, the Executive Director: 972 889 8875.
And: [email protected]
I hope our good LEO members here are noticing this story. Sworn Texas officers. Are they protecting the Constitution and Bill of Rights? No. Are they enforcing Texas Law? No. Are they following an illegal order? Possibly. Is there any dissent among ranks about it? None seen. Are they abusing their authority and powers granted by the State? Quite possibly. Are they wasting a citizens time and destroying their own reputation? Absolutely.
Would an off duty LEO have experience this same event? You tell me.
The police are teaching us about the police.
frostbiker
Member
Blackfork is right. You may also want to contact Charles Cotton. He's an attorney on their board and handles gun cases from time to time. He is also an expert on CHL issues.
I saw mention that Adrianos is white and the officer was black. Adrianos, was the cop shorter than you? He may have been suffering from a Napoleon complex. My very first speeding ticket was handed out by a DPS trooper who was short and Hispanic. He was about to search the truck I was driving when my dad (an attorney) stepped out and intervened. Still got the ticket and had to pay. Regardless of race, if the cop is taller or as tall as I am, no problem. If they are shorter...watch out!!!
I saw mention that Adrianos is white and the officer was black. Adrianos, was the cop shorter than you? He may have been suffering from a Napoleon complex. My very first speeding ticket was handed out by a DPS trooper who was short and Hispanic. He was about to search the truck I was driving when my dad (an attorney) stepped out and intervened. Still got the ticket and had to pay. Regardless of race, if the cop is taller or as tall as I am, no problem. If they are shorter...watch out!!!
TrapperReady
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ACLU perhaps? Actually, that's not a bad idea. They're no friend of the 2nd A, but are usually pretty good about the others. It would at least be worth a call.
cassandrasdaddy
Member
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yea poetic justice to use the aclu
they defended a guy for burning a cross in virginia on his own property. they were sucessfull and the sent down a black lawyer to try the case. he did a good job made me chuckle
they defended a guy for burning a cross in virginia on his own property. they were sucessfull and the sent down a black lawyer to try the case. he did a good job made me chuckle
Aguila Blanca
Member
Adrianos --
I notice your narrative didn't make any mention of them apologizing for inconveniencing you ... or reassembling your now-trashed car. Would I be safe in assuming that neither of those things occurred?
I notice your narrative didn't make any mention of them apologizing for inconveniencing you ... or reassembling your now-trashed car. Would I be safe in assuming that neither of those things occurred?
hugh damright
Member
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- Nov 3, 2005
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- 825
What has "expired" got to do with it? If an "expired" permit is probable cause, then wouldn't a valid permit be even greater probable cause?
mountainclmbr
Member
Why can you not sue the INDIVIDUAL civil servants for the civil rights violations? That would take the wind out of their sails faster than sueing the taxpayers who are not paying attention. I would take every dollar they will ever have for the rest of their lives. The LEO and whoever gave the orders should be living outdoors and eating from the free "recepticles" and arrested if they turn in aluminum cans and don't immediately send proceeds to the victim.
This is why there is so much animosity for the police. Usually on these boards anytime anyone bashes the police they are nailed to the wall. This is America not some communist country, not yet anyway. Luckily not all LEO's are like this, but one is to many.
Do this ASAP.
Do not talk to the Department first. If you do the evidence will be "flushed." Houston's IAD is, so I've heard, a joke. The "subpoena from out of the blue" is the lawyers equivalent of a flash bang on a no-knock raid.
I'll bet you'll rethink this attitude.
That's where I was before three decades of close contact with 'em (as a lawyer). Now I know better.
Sam Spade
Member
Houston-area cops have a reputation for this sort of thing. Lot of good ones though.
Adrianos, please consider consulting with someone TSRA/ACLU/state legislator’s office ... just to get someone who knows law and hopefully Texas. You may consider a minor weirdness and no big deal. And you may be correct particularly if it is one time weirdness on yours and this officer’s part.
And who knows the LEO in question may have a good and rational reason for what he did based on information he had that we do not ( Seems to be a stretch but hearing both sides is usually prudent.)
OR
May be illegal as Hades. And that only documenting multiple instances to different people can such an illegal pattern be shown.
Me, I got no clue.
Good luck either way.
NukemJim
PS And for those firearms owners with negative comment about the LEOs in general due to the actions of a few individuals LEOs how would you like to be judged based on a few individuals who misuse firearms ?
And who knows the LEO in question may have a good and rational reason for what he did based on information he had that we do not ( Seems to be a stretch but hearing both sides is usually prudent.)
OR
May be illegal as Hades. And that only documenting multiple instances to different people can such an illegal pattern be shown.
Me, I got no clue.
Good luck either way.
NukemJim
PS And for those firearms owners with negative comment about the LEOs in general due to the actions of a few individuals LEOs how would you like to be judged based on a few individuals who misuse firearms ?
stevelyn
Member
Wow..............
If I tried that, my department and the community would have me tarred and feathered and my certification would probably be revoked. I've seen guys disappear for a lot less.
If I tried that, my department and the community would have me tarred and feathered and my certification would probably be revoked. I've seen guys disappear for a lot less.
Baba Louie
Member
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- 3,831
While the particulars of the OP's situation do sucketh large...
a. Don't drive over the posted speed limit
b. If you do, and you get lit up, and the officer asks you "Do you have ANY idea how fast, etc." it's always wise to know exactly, let me repeat, "know exactly" how fast you were traveling.
c. You might have answered truthfully, "I don't know" and I gotta say, you were behind the wheel of a potentially deadly weapon and YOU DON'T KNOW how fast you were going? (how you gonna challenge any ticket if you don't know?)
Obviously, things went downhill from that point and he had you by the short curlies...
From other posts I've read here and there, Texas big city DA's have said they are still going to go after concealed carry in cars allowing the offended citizen a chance to explain it to the judge, new laws notwithstanding (just how DO YOU define "travelling"?). So I'd expect the local LE Agencies to follow that policy... as your case points out. (Hmmm, expired CHL, I'll bet he's still carrying)
Still and all, sounds like it's time to "Lawyer Up" even tho' they don't come cheap.
Lessons to be learned?
Don't speed and/or KNOW exactly how fast you are traveling.
Get your CHL updated.
a. Don't drive over the posted speed limit
b. If you do, and you get lit up, and the officer asks you "Do you have ANY idea how fast, etc." it's always wise to know exactly, let me repeat, "know exactly" how fast you were traveling.
c. You might have answered truthfully, "I don't know" and I gotta say, you were behind the wheel of a potentially deadly weapon and YOU DON'T KNOW how fast you were going? (how you gonna challenge any ticket if you don't know?)
Obviously, things went downhill from that point and he had you by the short curlies...
From other posts I've read here and there, Texas big city DA's have said they are still going to go after concealed carry in cars allowing the offended citizen a chance to explain it to the judge, new laws notwithstanding (just how DO YOU define "travelling"?). So I'd expect the local LE Agencies to follow that policy... as your case points out. (Hmmm, expired CHL, I'll bet he's still carrying)
Still and all, sounds like it's time to "Lawyer Up" even tho' they don't come cheap.
Lessons to be learned?
Don't speed and/or KNOW exactly how fast you are traveling.
Get your CHL updated.
dave_pro2a
Member
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- Oct 28, 2006
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- 447
"b. If you do, and you get lit up, and the officer asks you "Do you have ANY idea how fast, etc." it's always wise to know exactly, let me repeat, "know exactly" how fast you were traveling."
I've never comprehended that question. I mean why on earth would anybody answer it?
They stop you for the intent of issuing an infraction and the first question that ask involves you giving them an incriminating statement if you answer it.
I've never comprehended that question. I mean why on earth would anybody answer it?
They stop you for the intent of issuing an infraction and the first question that ask involves you giving them an incriminating statement if you answer it.
One of Many
Member
Speedometer Error
I used to work for one of the Automobile Manufacturers, in a department that was responsible for the engine and transmission control software. One day while I was looking at a specification, I discovered a reference to speedometer accuracy. It stated that the allowable error in the speedometer at an actual speed of twenty miles per hour, was a reading of 24 MPH. That is a HUGE error percentage wise. I don't recall what the allowable error was at higher speeds, but the fact is that automotive speedometers are NOT PRECISION instruments.
Even laboratory grade instruments produce errors in readings from one person to the next, because no two people will see a needle indicator exactly the same way another person does. That is why most police agencies allow a small amount of excess speed before making a stop for speeding. Courts have been shown that the speedometers are innaccurate nearly all of the time.
One reason is that replacement tires may have a different diameter, and even normal tire wear causes the diameter to change, causing errors in the indicated speed.
The next time a police officer ask you if you know how fast you were driving, just tell him that you know what your speedometer reading was, and ask him to inform you of his radar reading so you can learn if your speedometer was reasonably accurate. NEVER tell the officer what your speedometer reading was, as it WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU IN COURT.
The police officer can not force you to make an incriminating statement against yourself, but they will try to trick you into doing so.
If you don't want to be pulled over for a traffic stop, keep your speed close to what the rest of the vehicles are moving at. You can get a ticket for excessive speed even while driving at the posted speed lmit, if weather or other conditions make it unsafe to drive at the posted limit. Bad judgement on the part of a driver will get the attention of the police quickly, usually resulting in an expense that could have been avoided by being careful and aware of the conditions and posted speed limits.
I used to work for one of the Automobile Manufacturers, in a department that was responsible for the engine and transmission control software. One day while I was looking at a specification, I discovered a reference to speedometer accuracy. It stated that the allowable error in the speedometer at an actual speed of twenty miles per hour, was a reading of 24 MPH. That is a HUGE error percentage wise. I don't recall what the allowable error was at higher speeds, but the fact is that automotive speedometers are NOT PRECISION instruments.
Even laboratory grade instruments produce errors in readings from one person to the next, because no two people will see a needle indicator exactly the same way another person does. That is why most police agencies allow a small amount of excess speed before making a stop for speeding. Courts have been shown that the speedometers are innaccurate nearly all of the time.
One reason is that replacement tires may have a different diameter, and even normal tire wear causes the diameter to change, causing errors in the indicated speed.
The next time a police officer ask you if you know how fast you were driving, just tell him that you know what your speedometer reading was, and ask him to inform you of his radar reading so you can learn if your speedometer was reasonably accurate. NEVER tell the officer what your speedometer reading was, as it WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU IN COURT.
The police officer can not force you to make an incriminating statement against yourself, but they will try to trick you into doing so.
If you don't want to be pulled over for a traffic stop, keep your speed close to what the rest of the vehicles are moving at. You can get a ticket for excessive speed even while driving at the posted speed lmit, if weather or other conditions make it unsafe to drive at the posted limit. Bad judgement on the part of a driver will get the attention of the police quickly, usually resulting in an expense that could have been avoided by being careful and aware of the conditions and posted speed limits.
Baba Louie
Member
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- Dec 26, 2002
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- 3,831
Sure makes their job easier huh?
But I'm the kind of guy, who, if I know I've gotten busted red handed, ain't gonna lie about it.
Very wise counsel.
hugh damright
Member
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- Nov 3, 2005
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- 825
What an attitude!
If I KNEW how fast I was going, if I was AWARE of my rate of speed, I would have been doing the speed limit! If I was speeding, it's GIVEN that I was not aware of my rate of speed, or of the speed limit. Do you really think that people are aware of their speed at every moment? I think that is absolutely absurd. Sometimes I glance down at my speedometer and I am going a little to slow, or a little to fast ... and you call that "being behind the wheel of a deadly vehicle and not even knowing how fast I am going".
bogie
Member
There have been times when I've switched vehicles (rentals, etc.) and caught myself speeding - an Impala just doesn't feel like it is going that fast, compared to my little Mitsubishi...
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