Ever been "jack-lighted"?

[45/70]

I'm becoming a huge fan of "BlueTooth" technology. This allows "hands free" use of the cell phone, which is great when you're on the phone to 911 for whatever.

Last week it was just some dumb kid passing me at 50 mph in a 25 mph zone. I get to keep hands on the wheel, while I'm on the phone. In your case it would be "hands on the shotgun" while you're on the phone to 911.

Yeah, snap cap is a bad idea, turns your defense weapon into a gun that won't shoot. Seems like your best tactic is to tell 911 that you're armed and there's a "burglary in progress" -- You can be "wrong" later. But you don't want to give away your position. That's major tactical stuff they taught me in the Army. Stay behind cover, and don't let the bad guy know you're there.

Dumb frat kids tried to "boost my beer cooler" once when I was camping. Warm summer morning. I was asleep in the back of the pickup, cooler on the ground. Kids figure they can roll in fast, boost the cooler and be gone before you can wake up and get out of the sleeping bag, get shoes on and give chase.

As they rolled up to my truck in their car, at dawn and no reason for them to approach my vehicle whatever . . . I rolled onto my stomach and racked the 1911. I heard them as they rolled past, "He's awake and he has a gun."

Live ammo. This ain't no dress rehearsal.

 

[crashresidue]

OK, just about everybody has "busted my chops" about telling the dispatch "there's probably going to be a shooting".

Do you REALLY think that they'd have dispatched ONE squad, much less THREE if I hadn't said that? It was, at best - a "potential robbery"

Yea, it put me in jepordy (sp?), legally - but it got me "cops, plenty of cops"!

And, not told in the origional post - as soon as the car "turned the corner" - they turned on both the headlights and RADIO - I knew that it was "kids" that I was going to deal with.

I debated doing the confrontation with a pistol, but decided on the "shock and awe" of a shotgun. Maybe I was wrong, but I wanted this incident to end without blood or death. I had a "shooter" tucked in my belt, but didn't feel the need to show her.

OK, I'll be honest - I've NEVER engaged the safety on this 870 - I don't know if I ever will. H*ll - I'm not even sure where it's located on this weapon.

Other than the "dud round" - I know it turned out well - might have gone South, but it didn't.

ALL criticisms were taken in the honesty they were offered in.

Thanks,
cr

 

[Eleven Mike]

OK, I'll be honest - I've NEVER engaged the safety on this 870 - I don't know if I ever will. H*ll - I'm not even sure where it's located on this weapon.

Here come the flame!

 

[TexasRifleman]

Here come the flame!

I won't flame. I can't think of how to begin the conversation on that one.

 

[45/70]

It's the button in the front on the trigger guard. *S* "On" you push it to the right with your thumb. "Off" is to the left with the trigger finger, right before you pull the trigger.

Back-up gun is good. and you seem to have a clear idea what you're dealing with -- dumb kids. It's been my experience that any time you tell a 911 dispatcher that someone on the scene has a gun and "there might be a shooting" that the "incident response" gets ramped way up.

Down side to all that is police are looking to control the person with the gun FIRST and then take care of the jerks boosting tires out of garages next. Despite your "white hat" and being the person calling in the incident, if you have the firearm, you're viewed as the "threat" in the situation. Police are just trained to view anyone with a firearm in a confrontation as a "threat." Tactically, that's the safe way to operate.

Working with police locally, the comments I get are that the cell phone has brought a whole new level of response options to law enforcement. Cell phone is like citizens on the street now have radio dispatch contact with police. And as noted elsewhere, 911 makes an audio recording of the call, so if you're on the phone, you're creating a record of the incident that will be used in court.

Let's keep on the "up side" of that record.

 

[FXR]

I still think you did the most important thing exactly right: you stood up to danger when many would have run away (or hid in the house until -- IF -- the bad guys went away). Proved you are *not* a sheep.

The rest is nit-picking over tactics. Good work!

 

[Geronimo45]

"OK, just about everybody has "busted my chops""
You do realize that a lot of folks here would go after Audie Murphy for using bad tactics, don'tcha?

 

[gezzer]

I can understand the inert round.

Cruiser ready is empty chamber, fire gun, DO not pump! Leave safety OFF, load the magazine fully. When needed pump shoot as in rack bang.

Using a snap cap will insure the firing pin does not crystallize and break when dry firing. Yes that is the vulnerable part on an 870, I have replaced over 100 pins on trap guns that broke. It is a common problem.

I congratulate you for that!!!

 

[gezzer]

It's the button in the front on the trigger guard.

870? What button in front of the trigger guard?

 

[Headless]

Where were all you 'anti dud round' guys when this thread rolled around?
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=260995&page=3

 

[snewbie]

Next time get that Cigarette out of your mouth also. This aint the movies, and it is gives away your position.

 

[Turkey Creek]

Driver states "We were only gonna take some stuff - and HE pointed a GUN at us!!!"

Translation- We're the innocent ones and he's the bad guy- Some people have gall of biblical proportions- The saddest part is that they have been indoctrinated to actually believe what they are saying, and will probably breed a litter of equally idiotic offspring :banghead:

 

[helpless]

Good Story

I just got back from Maui, Best time of my life. Lots of pics from our vacation here

I agree with mossberg who said that it is different in the moment. We do not all have the muscle memory that trained soldiers have. It is easy to judge from behind a computer monitor. So I wont.

Glad your ok.

Get with the police and find out who those kids/men were just so you can keep an eye out.

 

[Tokugawa]

Oh man- now it is my turn to get flamed. I staked the safety of my 870 bear gun in the "fire" position. I'll tell ya'll why- I shoot left handed. And it is a righthanded gun. If you have ever tried this with an 870 you will see it is very easy to put the safety ON as you attempt to pull the trigger with your left forefinger. Of course, I do not carry it with a round up the spout- the normal carry is with the gun cocked on an empty chamber, so the slide cannot cycle accidentally and put a round in unnoticed.
Actually, were I to buy another shotgun, it would be something with a tang safety.
So ya'll can feel better,now that I do not drag the gun through the bush, I have de-staked the safety.

 

[zinj]

Tokugawa, it is a relatively simple operation to reverse the 870 safety. Any gunsmith can alter it, or DIY if you are so inclined.

 

[entropy]

Not so. A left-handed trigger group must be installed. On the older "pre-laywer" ones, the detent ball was more in the middle, but on newer ones, (not just the ISS ones) it is off to the side so simple reversal is not possible. I had one in for that a couple months ago.

It's the button in the front on the trigger guard. *S* "On" you push it to the right with your thumb. "Off" is to the left with the trigger finger, right before you pull the trigger.

It's on the BACK of the trigger guard. It's also placed so it is very hard to accidentally depress it-I find it hard to accidentally depress mine even with the Wilson large head safety on mine. But I use proper trigger finger discipline.

 

[waynedm]

I absolutely love the sound of an 870 cycle. Mossberg and Browning and all the others have nothing on the 870 for the sound. Nothing. It's sign language that isn't deaf. Or something.

Good job!

 

[gunsmith]

hasn't anyone ever told you

that smoking is bad for your health?

Actually, all kidding aside...I had acute bronchitus once...very painful.

 

[bigtuna]

What are Hawaii's laws regarding using deadly force in self-defense?

Somewhere I recall reading that you may only respond with deadly force if you are threatened with deadly force. For example, if someone is coming at you with a gun, you can respond with deadly force. If someone is coming at you with clenched fists, you cannot respond with deadly force, and could possibly face criminal charges if you shoot them.

The problem is, you don't have time to take inventory of what an attacker is equipped with, or what the intentions are of an intruder.

I'm curious to hear what you know about Hawaii self-defense laws.


(sidebar story: One of my friends in Kona was telling me that he saw a prowler creeping along his wall. The prowler didn't appear armed, neither was my friend. He attacked the prowler and got him pinned to the ground and called the police. The first thing the police asked, "does he have a gun?". When he said "no", they seemed less than interested. Burglary and petty theft crime in Hawaii is not that uncommon. My friend ended up chatting with the prowler who turned out to be a guy just sneaking in for a "quickie" with the neighbor's wife. My friend got tired of waiting for the police and just let the guy go.)

 

[Chem Geek]

jack-lighted?

Come on, it's a perfectly cromulent word.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

cromulent

Thank you, Miss Hoover.

In the very best tradition of Mrs Malaprop.

 

[Kimber1911_06238]

inert round in the chamber? wondering why you'd do that. if ur scared enough to grab a shotgun, put some buckshot in there

 

[TCB in TN]

Quote:
I could just see me stepping out with a live round in the chamber and some "foot monster" grabbing me, falling, and BOOM.

I'm fairly certain the 870 comes with a safety......

Training training training.

This is exactly why I always recommend against shotguns for home/self defense.

Everyone assumes since they have hunted dove at one time or another they are good with a shotgun. It's not the same.

I hear this all the time, and I seriously want to know, what type if training can you get for (fill in the blank with the weapon type) that doesn't really work for other (fill in the blank with another weapon type). After all are the safety rules different or something? I mean I just don't get it. Someone will say you shouldn't use shottys for home defense because they are not safe, but will advocate rifles. Or you shouldn't use a rifle for home defense, they are not safe you should use pistols, etc. I just don't get this. You are either capable of becoming familiar and profecient with your weapon of choice or you are not. I cannot understand this idea that one type of weapon is just inherantly safer to use for self defense than another is.

 

[Jeff White]

I hear this all the time, and I seriously want to know, what type if training can you get for (fill in the blank with the weapon type) that doesn't really work for other (fill in the blank with another weapon type).

There are three legs of what's known as the combat triad. Mindset, Marksmanship and Manipulation. After Mindset, Manipulation is the hardest skill to acquire and the one most likely to cause you problems under stress.

The manual of arms is not the same for all types of weapons. Shooting clay birds, dove, duck, rabbit or deer hunting are not training to fight with your shotgun. It's a firearm urban legend that the pump shotgun is simple to run. It's not. There are all kinds of little ways the pump shotgun can mess you up under stress. The slide action that is so easy to work in the goose pit suddenly becomes a nightmare to work with under stress. Short stroking, your hand not being able to find the bolt release, missing the safety. These are all things that relly mess with shooters during training. If I had a dime for every time Louis Awerbuck said run the bolt during the shotgun course I took with him, I could buy a new shotgun.

I cannot understand this idea that one type of weapon is just inherantly safer to use for self defense than another is.

There is no weapon that is safer then any other weapon for an untrained shooter. There are no equipment solutions for training problems.

Jeff

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Let's see,
Tells dispatch there might be a shooting if people get onto his property

Stakes out with shotgun without real ammo

Initiates confrontation with stranger and scares stranger by jacking in dud round.

Claims to not know how to fully operate 870 - no knowledge of safety.

Used shotgun display for purpose of scaring kids no perceived as a threat.

And folks wonder why encounters with gun owners often go so terribly wrong, in preparation, tactics, application, and/or legal aspects. Nothing about this incident sounds like it was thought out very well.

The only reason this turned out well is that the kids in the car were not serious criminals, not because of how well the situation was handled with the shotgun.