Example of how NOT to protect your neighborhood

Status
Not open for further replies.

mljdeckard

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
13,323
Location
In a part of Utah that resembles Tattooine.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=7252008

BLUFFDALE -- A late night altercation left one man fighting to survive. The shooting happened Tuesday night in a Bluffdale neighborhood. The victim, authorities say, is a member of the local neighborhood watch; the shooter is a resident of the neighborhood.

Over the past few weeks there have been a number of vehicle burglaries and vandalism to vacant properties in the Bluffdale neighborhood. Tuesday night, 36-year-old David Serbeck and the homeowner's association president decided to patrol the neighborhood to see if they could find anyone involved.

Sometime before 11 p.m., the HOA president and Serbeck, who was driving the vehicle at the time, came across four teenage girls walking down the street near 1570 West and 15500 South (Iron Horse Boulevard).

The two men drove next to the girls, trying to question them about the crimes, thinking they might be involved. Their vehicle matched the description of a car used in the earlier burglaries.

Reginald Campos was arrested for attempted murder by the Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office.

The girls got into the car and drove away, but Serbeck and the HOA president followed. Police say they never identified themselves as members of neighborhood watch.

"The SUV does some funny maneuvers with the car, gets behind them, starts following them. This freaks them out because they think the older men are stalking them," said Salt Lake County Sheriff's Lt. Don Hutson.

The girls became upset and of them called her father, 43-year-old Reginald Campos, and said the men were stalking them.

When the girls arrived home, Campos sent three of the girls inside and he and his daughter went looking for the two men and found them in an SUV a few blocks away.

Lt. Don Hutson said, "They both got out of the vehicle. They were both armed with handguns ... words were exchanged, there was a verbal altercation, and unfortunately Mr. Campos, who is the father of the young lady, fired two rounds, possibly three rounds, at Mr. Serbek."

Authorities say Serbeck was hit with one of the bullets in the left shoulder and it traveled near his spine.

"We received the initial call, and essentially it was a 911 call from a gentleman who said, ‘I've shot somebody, I need the police,'" Hutson said.

"I just had someone chasing my daughter. And when I confronted them, they pulled out a gun and I shot him," Campos tells the 911 dispatcher. "He's down on the ground. He needs an ambulance. He's hurt. He's down."

Serbeck was flown by a helicopter to Intermountain Medical Center in very critical condition.

Neighbors say Campos was just protecting his daughter.

"Reggie is a decent, loving husband; loving neighbor, a good guy, always looking out for, in particular, our little street," said KanaMarie Poulson.

Neighbors close to Campos say they knew nothing about a local neighborhood watch.

Serbek's friends say he'd been patrolling the last few months because of recent burglaries. He has a military background, but mostly a calm demeanor.

"It's going to be very debilitating for the neighborhood to have such an all-star person like that be hurt this way, and his family," said Sheryl Babcock.

The Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office arrested Campos for attempted murder. The Sheriff's office says Campos did not have a concealed weapons permit, but Serbeck did.

The Salt Lake County District Attorney will screen the case.

-Oops. At least it won't read as a homicide by a permit holder. MORAL OF THE STORY: Being a permit holder does not make you a cop. It does not give you permission to stalk people, follow them around the neighborhood, or get into shouting matches with fathers of the girls you followed around the neighborhood.
 
Not only that, but I would think the father should have called the police right away. Wouldn't have to dial 911, just use their normal number. But going out looking for trouble, especially with your daughter just seems like a bad idea to me.
 
Another article on the incident

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12890747?source=rss

Neighborhood watchdogs clash; 1 shot
Bluffdale » Victim suffers severe spinal cord injury and 'will likely be paralyzed for the remainder of his life.'

By Erin Alberty And Melinda Rogers

The Salt Lake Tribune
Updated: 07/22/2009 10:43:18 PM MDT

Reginald Campos

Neighbors of Reginald Campos and David Serbeck describe the men in nearly identical terms.

"He's our watchdog," KanaMarie Poulson said of Campos, her next-door neighbor.

"He's our eyes," Yvette Mignerey Atkin said of Serbeck, who lives on her street.

Now the residents of Parry Farms subdivision in Bluffdale are left to wonder how a dispute between two men known as neighborhood protectors could end with one paralyzed and the other in jail.

Campos, 43, was arrested Wednesday morning on suspicion of attempted murder in the shooting of Serbeck, 36. Serbeck remained in Intermountain Medical Center's highest trauma unit with severe spinal injuries.

Investigators say Campos confronted Serbeck about
midnight on a street in the affluent subdivision because he believed Serbeck had been harassing his teenage daughter.

Serbeck had organized a watch group in response to several recent car burglaries in the neighborhood, said Salt Lake County sheriff's Lt. Don Hutson. Serbeck and the president of the neighborhood homeowners association were patrolling in an SUV near 1570 West and Iron Horse Boulevard (15375 South) late Tuesday when they saw two girls walking, Hutson said.

The pair stopped the girls and asked what they were doing in the neighborhood, Hutson said. The two girls kept walking to the home of one of the girls, where they got into a vehicle and drove to another girl's house to pick up two more friends.

As the four girls drove around, they spotted Serbeck's SUV and were afraid he was following them, Hutson said. Serbeck recognized the girls and did a U-turn to follow them, Hutson said.

The girls drove erratically through the neighborhood to try to evade Serbeck, and Campos' daughter called her father and said the men had been hassling them, Hutson said.

Campos drove around the neighborhood in his SUV until he found the girls. He escorted them back to his house, where they planned to have a sleepover. He then drove back into the neighborhood in his SUV with his daughter to find the vehicle Serbeck was driving, Hutson said.

"The father becomes concerned and goes with [his daughter] and looks for the men. He wants to find out what the men are doing harassing his daughter and her friends," Hutson said.

Campos' and Serbeck's vehicles passed each other on the street, and Campos' daughter identified Serbeck as the man who had been hassling her, Hutson said. Campos turned his vehicle around and stopped it near Serbeck's vehicle, forcing Serbeck to stop, Hutson said.

Campos then had "some sort of exchange" with Serbeck and the homeowner's association president, Hutson said. Campos and Serbeck left their vehicles and stood in the road, he said.

Campos and Serbeck both displayed handguns, Hutson said. Campos fired at least three rounds before Serbeck could react, Hutson said. Serbeck was struck once in the shoulder; the bullet caused a severe spinal cord injury, Hutson said.

A jail booking statement states that Serbeck "will likely be paralyzed for the remainder of his life" as a result of the gunshot wound.

Police arrived at the scene shortly after midnight after Campos called 911 to report he shot a man. Campos waited at the scene until authorities arrived, Hutson said.

The Salt Lake County District Attorney's Office will screen charges for Campos today, Hutson said. Campos does not have a concealed-weapons permit, but Utah law allows for a firearm to be kept in a vehicle. Whether Campos was legally using the gun to defend himself once he stepped outside the vehicle is the primary question, Hutson said.

Serbeck holds a concealed-weapons permit.

Campos, who himself was a victim in the recent spate of burglaries, apparently was not aware of Serbeck's neighborhood watch initiative, Hutson said.

"Nobody knew about the neighborhood watch," said Poulson, Campos' neighbor in the northeastern segment of the subdivision.

Parry Farms is divided geographically by a slope and a stretch of empty land. Residents in the southwestern portion -- where Serbeck lives -- said they did not receive official notice of a watch group, either.

But they said that Serbeck, a stay-at-home dad who retired in recent years from a military career, was the consummate neighborhood guardian, alerting residents to the recent burglaries and offering help often.

"He's incredible," Mignerey Atkin said. "He's my protection."

Neighbor Kelsie McKay said Serbeck shoveled her driveway when she was nine months pregnant in December and often attends municipal meetings on the subdivision's behalf.

"He fought for us," McKay said.

Cindy Staley said Serbeck is "the first one there" when newcomers move to the area, making introductions and offering help.

"I love having him in our neighborhood," Staley said.

Across the small valley, Poulson said Campos fills a similar role in the northeast neighborhood. When several residents' mailboxes were pilfered in a recent spree of identity thefts and mail fraud, it was Campos who printed and delivered notices to alert the households in his area of the subdivision, Poulson said.

"Reginald is a great guy and a great neighbor," said Poulson.

After Campos' car was broken into and other burglaries were reported, Poulson said, "We were all more vigilant."

Poulson does not know Serbeck, but she said, "My heart goes out to both sides.

"I think they just wanted to protect their families."
 
Sounds like an all-around bad situation. Seems like the HOA people were trying to do good, but going about it in the worst way possible, and it got one of them shot. I hope he recovers and learns something, and I hope Campos doesn't end up in prison.

Assuming, of course, that the incident is as related to us by these articles.
 
Our neighborhood watch just calls these things into the Sheriff's Department and they do nothing with it. Still better than getting shot..
 
It sounds like both sides are at fault for trying to play policeman.

The safest place I can think of is inside my house. I can't imagine leaving that safety to go face god-knows-what.

Mr. Campos or his daughter should have called the police, not gone huntin'.
 
If they wanted to do this, they should have organized some uniforms, radios and vehicles. The dinky little cart types... I would also say that they should have told EVERY resident by phone and mail that they were starting a patrol on THIS date.

Questioning the girls was stupid. The point of a patrol is TO BE SEEN, not to question or do anything else. That is for the police. So is making the arrest and responding to an event. You are just patrolling to be seen.

Doing it in a private car, with no uniform or ID could make you look like a burglar yourself to the police and other neighbors. The victim has a liability claim against the HOA and so does the shooter.

Hire a security company to do this or organize it correctly. Other alternative is to call the police, they should be patrolling, if they need to hire another man to do it or 2, usually the HOA's in the area can get together and flip the cost. That is what ours have done.
 
Last edited:
What exactly did the "Neighborhood Watchmen" intend to do if they had encountered the actual burglars? Question? Arrest? Detain?

If they thought the girls were suspicious, they should have called LEO.

Observe & report.

Mr Campos should have done the same. Contact LEO about a suspicious vehicle following the girls. At most try to get a license number.

Again Observe & report.

While both men's intentions were to "protect" the neighborhood, both men's actions were borderline vigilante.

Most neighborhoods have a "self-appointed" protector. Usually a busy body nuisance. This neighborhood had two.

A very unfortunate situation on many levels.
 
Last edited:
Normally I don't get into these things, since I know very well how much the media distorts & omits.
In this case, I do know people who live next door to the shooter, Campos.

It was a conglomeration of errors, and Campos is not the bloodthirsty madman that local commentors on media websites with neither a clue nor a brain in their entire heads are making him out to be.

Neither man, Campos nor Serbeck, knew each other.
There was no notification to residents in either developmental section of the new subdivision, Campos' or Serbeck's, of any neighborhood watch program. The Sheriff's Office knew nothing about it. The vehicle Serbeck was in was not marked in any way. Serbeck did not identify himself to the girls at any time as being part of a neighborhood watch program, he & the HOA president apparently just pulled up alongside the girls as they were walking along late at night and started questioning them as they were gathering for a sleepover at Campos' house.

In this day & age, what possible other reaction could teenage girls walking home in the dark in a partially vacant subdivision think when approached by two unknown men in a large vehicle who start out with small talk & then proceed to question them about where they were going and what they were doing, but fear and distrust? Particularly when those same two men continue to follow the girls both on foot and later in a car?

Poor judgement was displayed by both sides, but had Serbeck & the HOA president not begun the affair by mounting essentially an armed patrol on their own, without notification to the area's residents, without marking their vehicle in any way, and without identifying themselves to the girls at any time, this would not have escalated as it did.
Serbeck & the HOA president violated the basic tenets of any responsible neighborhood watch program: You are eyes & communication ONLY, you DO NOT TRY TO HANDLE SITUATIONS DIRECTLY, AND YOU DO NOT INVOLVE FIREARMS OR ARMED PATROLS. (Katrina-like situations exempted.)

I've listened to the 911 tape, Campos states quite clearly he heard Serbeck "cock his gun", and at that point he fired his own.
There are no indications Campos was "hunting" with deliberate intent to use his gun, he just took it along in case of trouble, something most of us here can understand.

Campos could have notified the SO rather than going hunting, and could have notified the SO he had located & was following two men he suspected of trying to pick up his teenaged daughter once he did locate them.
Serbeck could have stayed home, could have notified the community involved about his intended activities, could have organized a more widely known & visible NW profile, could have identified himself as NW to the girls, could have advised the SO he was following what he thought were suspicious kids & requested a deputy, could have realized the potential fear his approach would engender in the girls on approaching & questioning them, and so on.

Both men are highly regarded by their neighbors & those who know them. Both were well-intentioned. Both now have their lives changed forever by the choices they made.

It's tragic on both sides.

Denis
 
Massive failures all around..

Observing a crowd of girls in the hood, do you..
A. Follow them around like a squad of perverts?
B. Call the Police, give them the license number of the vehicle and report what you saw.
C. Do a Benny hill comedy skit where you all run around in gorilla suits?

Your daughter was followed home by a couple old dudes.. do you....
A. Go Chuck Norris and wander the streets with your daughter looking for the perps, armed to the teeth?
B. Call the Police, give them the license number of the vehicle and report what you saw?
C. Shoot wildly into the air like an Iraqi Wedding?

When getting out of a car, with your gun and the other guy gets out of his car with his gun.. do you...
A. Chat for a bit, then start shooting?
B. Get out of the situation, call the police, etc, etc...?
C. Show the guy an amazing magic trick you saw on David Blaine's last magic special?

Take 1 point for every A, 0 points for every B and -100 for every C.

Your total?

I think these clowns all should have done C. At least it makes more sense than what they did do.
 
Funny how things change when it's your daughter, isn't it?

You got that right. I sit here typing thinking... If I were on the HOA, I would have called the police at LEAST while following the girls, if not before.... if I were the father, I would have sent ALL of the kids inside, wrote down license plates and called the cops... Poor kid had to see the whole thing...

But... I do not know if thats what I would have done or not if it were my teen...
 
yea someone that i think is bothering one of mine or her friends i might have issues with. them getting outa the car with a gun would not defuse that tension. wanna play cop? go to the academy. i was surprised how my thinking and reactions evolved after i had kids. less likely to go active but much more dangerous if i do
 
A home owners association president and a neighborhood watch person trying to play detective? that perposterous. surely these gentelment wouldnt strap up and solve the mystery of the stolen car stereo. they had no business tailing the girls . . like jenkie's Scoob, he got what was coming to him if he drawed first. I hope that the father of the young girl can beat out the liberal DA that will try to ruin his life.


neighborhood watch people arent allowed to carry any type of weapon when performing duties in my county. we have a couple guys who have went so far as to buy old surplus police cars at auction (tags say gecko45 wink wink) to patrol the roads of the county wearing black combat fatigues, completely un-armed, with no more authority than a private citizen. No love for HOA or neighborhood watch members in my neck of the woods.
 
Last edited:
i'm not sure an old police car is such a bad idea so long as its clearly identifiable as not being a real cop. our neighborhood watch is the old fashioned kind good neighbors. ironically the founder of the neighborhood watch that once existed here had to quit his kid was breaking into houses
 
I think the 'call the police' responses are wishful thinking. Where do you live, that a telephone call of 'guys in a car were following my girl and her girlfriends, also in a car' will get a cruiser out? At the very most, the operator will verify that the girls were hot, and are safe now.

"Oh, but operator, they were older guys!"

"But operator, the girls didn't want to be followed by those particular guys."

"But operator, the guys stopped and asked questions, and the girls stopped to listen, and the girls thought the guys' questions were lame and psycho stalker, and the girls were like whatever, and the guys were like yes way. Then the guys did this totally l33t move with their car that freaked the girls out, and the guys were all that's how we roll." Yes, the 911 operator will make sure the police get right on that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top