Faulty Primers or Hot Loads? - Freedom Munitions

[rdtompki]

Wife has a new SA 9mm 1911 for home defense (plus two for competition). The gun has seen a few hundred rounds and she wanted to send some rounds down range today before a practice session. We shoot my reloads, but I thought they might be a bit soft for a stock sprung gun. Brought two boxes of FM 9mm XTP. Picture, below shows the struck primers - some barely dented, some seem burned through:

My first reaction was we'll send the gun back to SA tomorrow, but we ran a bunch of my reloads through the gun and the CCI primers look just fine (and the gun cycled fine with the softer reloads):


Obviously, I'll send this info to Freedom Munitions. I suspect I don't have much of the XTP stuff and we don't shoot factory ammo any more, but does anyone have an idea as to the cause of this. Can't be good. Could these loads have the wrong powder/quantity and be really hot?

UPDATE:
I found this article which confirms issues FM had with their 124gr 9mm XTP:http://handgunplanet.com/review/product-issue-freedom-munitions-124-grain-9mm-fmj/

I do recoil my wife mentioning the much heavier recoil before we found the issue with the cases. I'll definitely inspect the gun for damage. Fortunately, we didn't fire many rounds. I want to further add that most FM ammo boxes have a lot number. The XTP (which I accidently ordered a few years ago) had no identification other than 9mm 124gr XTP New. Very strange.

 

[clearcut]

RD that don't look so good,I can't tell you whats wrong but I sure would look at her firing pin and check for damage. I've never had that issue. I bet RC will chime in soon with an answer.
CC

 

[Gearhead Jim]

A year ago I bought 500 rds of Freedom Munitions .380 reloads for practice in my G42, fired about 200 rds so far. They have functioned perfectly but are too hot for practice ammo.

Forget what the catalogs say, good 95 gr factory ammo averages about 860 fps from my G42. Same gun, same chronograph; my Freedom sends the 100 gr bullet out at 955 fps. It won't blow up anything, but why use practice ammo that beats up the gun and has more recoil than my carry ammo?

 

[rdtompki]

I am going to check the FP, but the strikes on my regular reloads, fired after the FM stuff, look ok.

 

[243winxb]

IMT 9mm

Hot loads from problem ammo. Google the headstamp for more info. The missing disc from the center of the primer may end up being in the firing pin channel, causing misfires later. If its not the ammo, check for a headspace problem. The chamber may be cut to shallow/short, but not a common problem, as head space is on the case mouth.

 

[longdayjake]

Freedom munitions ammo is made right here in Lewiston. I've employed a couple of their old employees. I've spoken with several more of their employees that still work with them. The rumor (verified by several sources) is that their ammo is blowing up or damaging guns more often than it should be. One person took it so far as to say they should be buying guns by the truckload just to save money on how many they are replacing.

There is a reasonably well know junior competitor who was sponsored by Freedom Munitions who was hurt when her gun exploded using Freedom Munitions Ammo.

My personal opinion is that they have spent their money on spamming the entire world with their marketing rather than on quality control.

All that being said, even your other brass seems to have a pretty deep ejector mark on it. May be something amiss with your gun. But even so, Freedom does not have the same reputation as Black Hills Gold for a reason.

 

[Richard Head]

Thanks for the heads up. This is why I don't screw around with boutique ammo. I'll be avoiding anything from Freedom Arms like the plague.

 

[longdayjake]

http://mossbergowners.com/forum/ind...munition-warning.htmlmmunition-warning.12203/

http://mp-pistol.com/mp-ammunition/40984-freedom-munitions-9mm-ammunition-warning.html

http://www.xdtalk.com/threads/failure-with-freedom-munitions.266853/

http://elileblanc1519.wikidot.com/freedom-munitions-blew-up-my-glock-17

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_2/447223_.html&r=4358206&qte=1

http://handgunplanet.com/review/product-issue-freedom-munitions-124-grain-9mm-fmj/

 

[rdtompki]

I did notice the ejector mark(s) and don't see that on our other four 9mm 1911s. Definitely something to attend to, but shouldn't be related to the hot ammo. I sent an e-mail to FM, but don't expect a reply.

 

[atblis]

There are a few things that look odd to me. What is the mark on the edges of the rim? Are the firing pin marks off center as well?

 

[cwall64]

They have a storefront in Houston, TX and I bought some of their 9mm, 40 S&W, & 10MM to shot while I was getting my reloading equipment out of mothballs and was not impressed at all with it (old saying is true - you get what you pay for!)... Glad I did not have a gun blow up or anything bad like that!

Also, since they own Xtreme bullets I will not touch them - and Jake has such good plated bullets at RMR, that is all I buy!

 

[climbnjump]

Thanks for the heads up. This is why I don't screw around with boutique ammo. I'll be avoiding anything from Freedom Arms like the plague.

I'm sure you just miss-typed there, but Freedom Arms is a MUCH different company than the subject of this thread - Freedom Munitions.

 

[Paddy]

Freedom munitions pissed me off very completely a few years back and I dcided that their cheap ammo wasn't something I would ever invest in again, and that was before any quality concerns arose at all. Screw them!

 

[rdtompki]

I'm sending the ammo back to FM for replacement or refund. They did respond quickly and I had previous shot perhaps 6K rounds of various calibers. Still, assuming a very hot load it's hard to understand how commercial equipment would suffer this sort of escape. Also strange that no bar code/lot number on these 7 boxes of ammo.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

Freeedom Munitions are supposed to be partners with Xtreme bullets, can anyone confirm or refute that?

In addition to the too-hot .380 reloads from Freedom that I mentioned in post #3, I also had one Xtreme 100 gr RN-FP plated bullet for my own .380 reloading that weighed 115 gr instead of 100. If loaded and fired on a charge that is full strength for the 100, the 115 would certainly produce a lot more pressure. Enough to blow the case or blow up the gun? I don't know.
The 115 gr bullet looked just like the 100's in the box, the additional length was very slight and the nose shape identical except the meplate was slightly "squished". The difference was slight enough that I weighed that bullet twice before even noticing the shape. Good thing I just happened to weigh some from that batch.

Xtreme said the problem was "pretty unusual", which I take to mean "happens from time to time but we don't worry much about it."
They did sent me another box of bullets, but that's not the issue...

 

[Slamfire]

Could be Winchester small pistol primers. I know for brass colored Winchester small rifle primers, they pierce at loads that never bothered the pre 1999 nickle plated WSR primers. I called Winchester up prior to the turn of the century and they told me that they had just redesigned their primers to make them more sensitive. One bad effect of that was that their small rifle primers pierced due to thinner cups. I don't shoot very hot pistol loads, in fact, still have thousands of the old nickle plated WSP and WLR, so I have not had pierced pistol primers.

Anyway, anytime a primer pierces, be it pistol or rifle, pressures are too high for that primer.

 

[lmstncwby]

The posted chronograph velocities indicate an overcharge of a fast powder. Did you have any difficult extractions? You also might try pulling the bullet on a couple of rounds to what sort of powder is used and it's weight. I wonder if Freedom Munitions pressure tests their product for QA/QC.

 

[longdayjake]

Freeedom Munitions are supposed to be partners with Xtreme bullets, can anyone confirm or refute that?

Yes, that is true. They are actually under the same big company called HMT.

They make freedom's ammo and xtreme's bullets in the same plant here in Lewiston. They are all owned by David Howell along with Ammoload Worldwide, Howell Machine, HMT, Clearwater Bullets, etc. I've had some personal dealings with them. but we no longer have any relationship at all.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

I would also contact SA and ask for their opinion. They might know something we don't.

 

[shooter1]

Pierced primers are never a good thing, but I'm thinking something else is going on in that pistol. As mentioned earlier, the primer strikes look off center. That could well be caused by the pistol being slightly out of battery at the moment of firing. Those case heads are taking a pretty severe impact on the ejector as well. I'd check the recoil and hammer springs to see if you have a return to battery/lockup problem due to the springs. That could well be the problem causing the pierced primers as well as the off center strikes and case head damage due to high slide velocities. It's easy to see the case head orientation in the chamber from the ejector marks on the case head. It appears the primer strikes are off center to 12:00, which could indicate an out of battery condition at the moment of firing. Definitely check out that pistol before you shoot it again.
Good luck.
str1