Females W/Guns
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carebear
Member
Barbara, I'm wrong all the time. 
Slippers? I'd throw in a foot massage. I may be a Neanderthal but I know how to make a lady smile.
I guess it's a point of view thing. I can understand and appreciate yours, but I doubt you'll buy mine, cause I can't really back it up with proof per se. Here's it is anyway, YMMV.
Men and women are of course in general capable of doing the same things, but that capability doesn't mean they should have to if there is an alternative nor, alternately, does the fact that they have different roles mean one is superior to the other. Especially in a relationship, that is by design a partnership of complementary natures. The "helping" is mutual and ongoing.
Very little of these innate roles have anything to do with the "gender roles" we have societally created, they are "sexually" based, based on genes and the repeatedly identified physiological, intellectual, emotional makeup differences between men and women. They seem to be common across cultures and time. But I can't prove any of this.
Chivalry, gentlemanliness and the like are, to me, just minor, outward, primarily Western societally influenced outgrowths of an awareness of these inherent differences.
I can't wrap MY pretty little head around how someone opening a door for you that they KNOW you can open for yourself can feel diminishing. It seems to ignore the actor's intent entirely, which, if merely polite, could end up being more impolite and unjust than any perceived insult you may feel.
Course, that's a loop that's hard to get out of.
I'm gonna keep opening doors, feel free to beat me about the head and neck.
Slippers? I'd throw in a foot massage. I may be a Neanderthal but I know how to make a lady smile.
I guess it's a point of view thing. I can understand and appreciate yours, but I doubt you'll buy mine, cause I can't really back it up with proof per se. Here's it is anyway, YMMV.
Men and women are of course in general capable of doing the same things, but that capability doesn't mean they should have to if there is an alternative nor, alternately, does the fact that they have different roles mean one is superior to the other. Especially in a relationship, that is by design a partnership of complementary natures. The "helping" is mutual and ongoing.
Very little of these innate roles have anything to do with the "gender roles" we have societally created, they are "sexually" based, based on genes and the repeatedly identified physiological, intellectual, emotional makeup differences between men and women. They seem to be common across cultures and time. But I can't prove any of this.
Chivalry, gentlemanliness and the like are, to me, just minor, outward, primarily Western societally influenced outgrowths of an awareness of these inherent differences.
I can't wrap MY pretty little head around how someone opening a door for you that they KNOW you can open for yourself can feel diminishing. It seems to ignore the actor's intent entirely, which, if merely polite, could end up being more impolite and unjust than any perceived insult you may feel.
Course, that's a loop that's hard to get out of.
I'm gonna keep opening doors, feel free to beat me about the head and neck.
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
i make a mean lasagna. someone else will have to bring the cake. i think carebear bakes cookies. we should have a potluck.
carebear
Member
I can, in fact, make a mean cookie. Course, I almost have to, none of these modern gals, will pony up with any tasty baked treats.
I almost married a girl who couldn't bake nor iron, couldn't sew a button to save her life neither. And cluttery old me was the one who like vacuuming.
That was sooooo wrong. I now doubt that she was just using me for my body.
I almost married a girl who couldn't bake nor iron, couldn't sew a button to save her life neither. And cluttery old me was the one who like vacuuming.
That was sooooo wrong. I now doubt that she was just using me for my body.
Ok. You change crappy diapers. I'll write the Declaration of Independence.
(I feel like I'm picking on you, Carebear, and I'm not meaning to. I really do appreciate the thought you put into this.)
And Spiff, I'll let you in on a little secret. If your lasagne is good enough, you can get away with almost anything!
Several members have to reread the thread title and get back on the topic. Cooking and such goes in the Roundtable forum.
I have to say:
I cook like a daemon. From my China Syndrome Chilli, straight through to my boef beugignon, I do Nice Things with a pan. I've never had the privilege of cooking for my American friends, but I promise you'll know you've been fed at my table.
I make my own chillied pickles. I'm sure the UN would have health warnings to slap on some of 'em.
I cook well. And check it out! I have a willy. I'm a bloke.
It was my priviledge and my pleasure to renew some range-time with an alumnus of this board, and she found pleasure in my index finger lying aside the barrel before I had a target.
Girls are more dangerous with guns, because they have the reflexes, the reactions aye - but, when pissed off, are infitinately more nasty than menfolk.
Women are delicate, beautiful, sensuous, charming, and in all ways to be protected aye. I speak from up here. *waves hand from between six and seven feet*
But.. When it comes to Iron in the Soul. Never underestimate the Lady, for she's there asking for your reloads before you're even done with your own mag.
I cook like a daemon. From my China Syndrome Chilli, straight through to my boef beugignon, I do Nice Things with a pan. I've never had the privilege of cooking for my American friends, but I promise you'll know you've been fed at my table.
I make my own chillied pickles. I'm sure the UN would have health warnings to slap on some of 'em.
I cook well. And check it out! I have a willy. I'm a bloke.
It was my priviledge and my pleasure to renew some range-time with an alumnus of this board, and she found pleasure in my index finger lying aside the barrel before I had a target.
Girls are more dangerous with guns, because they have the reflexes, the reactions aye - but, when pissed off, are infitinately more nasty than menfolk.
Women are delicate, beautiful, sensuous, charming, and in all ways to be protected aye. I speak from up here. *waves hand from between six and seven feet*
But.. When it comes to Iron in the Soul. Never underestimate the Lady, for she's there asking for your reloads before you're even done with your own mag.
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
uhhhh, whats her number? hook a spenard-brotha up!
hook a spenard-brotha up!Strings
Member
I've wondered about the whole women in the military thing for awhile now, and I THINK I've come up with the REAL reason for it: because women can be so much more vindictive. Isn't the first rule of guerilla warfare "Don't get caughht by the women"? Doesn't the saying go "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"? Were women more prominant in combat roles (especially command positions), war would likely be taken to more of an extreme level...
Of course, that would be offset by the fact it generally take mose to push a woman to violence...
*the above is just joking. I can think of LOTS of women I'd prefer next to me in a combat situation than most guys*
Of course, that would be offset by the fact it generally take mose to push a woman to violence...
*the above is just joking. I can think of LOTS of women I'd prefer next to me in a combat situation than most guys*
Strings
Member
Bog... when did you spend time with my wife?
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
alright alright!
so it seems that most of the women of THR, oops, i mean CHICKS of THR, have clammed up. let me ask you of the female persuasion (never understood that turn of phrase, is it possible to persuade someone to become the other sex?) when we see guys take girls to the range, and start teaching them bad habits (grip, stance, sight picture, etc), should we step in and say something?
most of the time we dont because the guy will think we're trying to rooster-block him and tresspass on his 'territory'.
so it seems that most of the women of THR, oops, i mean CHICKS of THR, have clammed up. let me ask you of the female persuasion (never understood that turn of phrase, is it possible to persuade someone to become the other sex?) when we see guys take girls to the range, and start teaching them bad habits (grip, stance, sight picture, etc), should we step in and say something?
most of the time we dont because the guy will think we're trying to rooster-block him and tresspass on his 'territory'.
carebear
Member
No dice Spiff, she was from Ohio and she's married back there now.
Didn't get so lucky with the next guy, chore wise.
Barbara,
I don't feel picked on. I could just stop posting and stop being wrong. (but I repeat myself )
There's a line in a Fairport Convention song, goes something like "men are sailors, for men know how to drown."
I guess that's how I see it. I am all for women getting gun training, it is every human's responsibility to have the training, means and mindset to protect themselves, and others for that matter. (aaaaaaaaaand we're back, Mal )
But push come to shove, I'm taking the bullet for any woman, any time. If I have to fight you for the front spot in the line of fire, I'll do it. (without hitting the woman you understand) In the end it is my nature and role. But that's me. Poor, patriarchal, picked-on little me.
Here's a question, how did you get your first training and do you think women in general learn better in women-only classes?
Didn't get so lucky with the next guy, chore wise.
Barbara,
I don't feel picked on. I could just stop posting and stop being wrong. (but I repeat myself
)There's a line in a Fairport Convention song, goes something like "men are sailors, for men know how to drown."
I guess that's how I see it. I am all for women getting gun training, it is every human's responsibility to have the training, means and mindset to protect themselves, and others for that matter. (aaaaaaaaaand we're back, Mal
)But push come to shove, I'm taking the bullet for any woman, any time. If I have to fight you for the front spot in the line of fire, I'll do it. (without hitting the woman you understand) In the end it is my nature and role. But that's me. Poor, patriarchal, picked-on little me.
Here's a question, how did you get your first training and do you think women in general learn better in women-only classes?
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
i'd ask you to take a bullet for me carebear, but you'd probably respond with some fat joke about how it'd take three of you to take one bullet for me.
carebear
Member
I'd just have to stand further out in front, ya know, to cut down on the angles. 
Back to the Question?
Gentlmen & Ladies
My Question was simple, and had nothing to do about Cooking, or Holding Doors Open. What make this Forum neat is the Fact that we have a Common Ground (Guns) nothing to do about some Guys that think they are Tarzon.
I think the Forum is glad to have Men and Woman with a common ground (Guns) talking about (Guns). I have enjoyed reading some )But Cut the Cooking and Doors.
Thank You
Gentlmen & Ladies
My Question was simple, and had nothing to do about Cooking, or Holding Doors Open. What make this Forum neat is the Fact that we have a Common Ground (Guns) nothing to do about some Guys that think they are Tarzon.
I think the Forum is glad to have Men and Woman with a common ground (Guns) talking about (Guns). I have enjoyed reading some )But Cut the Cooking and Doors.
Thank You
sm
member
Hey I appeciated the women attending the CCW classes holding doors for me as I entered the room with the fresh Blackberry and Blueberry muffins I baked and brought for them.
I darn sure got the door for them bringing me a cake at the private range.
Ladies held the chair for me while I climbed on chair to retrieve the Pencil I shot into celiling tiles - demonstrating how to check assembly after taking apart a semi .
I even allowed 3 ladies , to hold the door for me, wipe spilled coke off my shirt and pick up my pizza slice I dropped on the floor at a Pizza Joint once...they had each been coached by me, and each had shot their first 25 straight in skeet and embarssed the hell out me in front of a bunch of guys...
I just sat there, looking stupid, getting laughed at. Instead of shooting a hat for one...we shot her bra...which she and the other two signed, dated and brought into the pizza joint and presented to me...
3 ladies and one guy ain't all it is cracked up to be fellas'
I darn sure got the door for them bringing me a cake at the private range.
Ladies held the chair for me while I climbed on chair to retrieve the Pencil I shot into celiling tiles - demonstrating how to check assembly after taking apart a semi .
I even allowed 3 ladies , to hold the door for me, wipe spilled coke off my shirt and pick up my pizza slice I dropped on the floor at a Pizza Joint once...they had each been coached by me, and each had shot their first 25 straight in skeet and embarssed the hell out me in front of a bunch of guys...
I just sat there, looking stupid, getting laughed at. Instead of shooting a hat for one...we shot her bra...which she and the other two signed, dated and brought into the pizza joint and presented to me...
3 ladies and one guy ain't all it is cracked up to be fellas'
dav
Member
I'm pretty much stuck using an indoor range exclusively. I mention that because I think casual conversation is much harder at an indoor range. Simply too loud with not enough room.
I have never seen an unaccompanied female shooter on the firing line outside of a class. There are two women working the store, and plenty of women with guys in tow (or vice versa).
My first basic handgun course at this range was 8 women, and me. But the instructor and his assistant were both guys, and I think the women still felt there were too many guys there to just be themselves.
Approaching a woman at the range when she is with a guy is just asking for trouble. Sure wish I could find one who would like to go to the range regularly with me, though. My wife will go, if I plead hard enough, but her heart is obviously not in it.
I have never seen an unaccompanied female shooter on the firing line outside of a class. There are two women working the store, and plenty of women with guys in tow (or vice versa).
My first basic handgun course at this range was 8 women, and me. But the instructor and his assistant were both guys, and I think the women still felt there were too many guys there to just be themselves.
Approaching a woman at the range when she is with a guy is just asking for trouble. Sure wish I could find one who would like to go to the range regularly with me, though. My wife will go, if I plead hard enough, but her heart is obviously not in it.
That wasn't directed at me, but I'll answer it anyway. That "woman in general," whoever she is, has caused me a lot of personal grief over the years ...
My personal experience is that "women in general" may have an easier time learning to shoot than "men in general" -- but that I am not women in general, I'm me, and I had a heckuva hard time of it. I'm not a natural shot, and had to work very hard for the little I've learned. I was proud of myself for placing within the low 20's at the very crowded GSSF match in Shelton last year, and have no real reason to believe that unless there's a miracle I'll ever do much better than that. I'm naturally slow, clumsy, slightly cross-eyed, and not a bit athletic. My fine motor skills stink. So it's not surprising that I find shooting, which is primarily a fine motor skill, to be very challenging.
It may be encouraging to "women in general" to be told that they're more likely to be good at shooting initially than men are. For me it was pure frustration, because here I was supposed to be able to do this thing as a kind of genetic inheritance, and it turned out I had to really and truly work at it!
When it came to classes, the first class I took was a two-day class, intended for people already familiar with their weapons but still new to the world of shooting. I'd owned a gun for about three months at that time, and I took the class with one of my male buddies. The only other woman in the class of twenty was a 60-something lady who had terrible arthritis in both hands, and who really struggled to keep up. She soaked up a lot of instructor attention, but did manage to pass the qual at the end. I wasn't uncomfortable being around mostly guys -- all my closest friends always have been male -- but I think that woman might have benefited from the more friendly/cooperative atmosphere a women-only class usually has.
In my experience, co-ed classes tend to be more competitive, while female-only classes tend to be more cooperative in nature. There are plenty of exceptions to this general rule. But generally, if a woman is comfortable with and undismayed by competition, she'll probably do very well in a co-ed class. If she is usually uncomfortable with competition, she may find herself better off signing up for a women-only class.
Later on, I took a handgun retention & disarms class. That one ... that's a different tale. I hated taking it with a bunch of guys. I'm not a physical person and I hated having to touch other people's bodies in order to learn the skills. I hated the disarm-the-bad-guy-behind-you move, which could not be done without my upper torso bumping into the guy's arm (like most women, I have some furniture there that kind of gets in the way). I mentioned to the instructors that I would really (really really really) have appreciated taking that class with women instead of co-ed. One of them said, "Yes, we know. But if the skills are to be learned at all, you have to be able to perform them against people of all sizes -- and half the population is men." Good point, but I didn't have to like it. I agree with it now, even, but I still don't like it much.
Since I've been working as a volunteer assistant instructor, I've had the chance to see a lot of women as they begin learning to shoot and to talk with them about their perceptions of the shooting world. I think "women in general" benefit quite a bit from women-only classes, especially at the lower levels, but I do think at some point it is time to move beyond the gender ghetto. I also think some women thrive upon co-ed classes, and would neither enjoy nor benefit from women-only classes.
I think it's usually time to move beyond women-only classes at the point the shooter needs to be pushed a little, rather than mostly reassured and aggressively encouraged. That point happens at different times for different shooters. Women-only classes aren't usually very good at pushing people. Again, that's a generality and I'm sure there are exceptions.
By the way, the women I know who've come to classes because a female friend talked them into it could be counted on one hand. Most of them have been persuaded, encouraged, bribed, or dragged there by some man -- most often a husband or boyfriend. The exceptions to this are almost all lesbians, most of whom were persuaded to come to the range by their partners. (I'm not one of the exceptions; an old family friend, a man, persuaded me to sign up for my first class.)
My teenage babysitter, learning she was going to watch the kids so I could go to the range, once remarked, "What do you want to learn to shoot and carry a gun for? Guys like guns, girls don't."
I smiled gently and replied, "Girls get raped, guys don't." She got the point.
I just wish more women would.
pax
But when hunter meets with husband, each confirms the other's tale --
The female of the species is more deadly than the male.
-- Rudyard Kipling
Typhoon
Member
Thank you, pax.
Well said. You are a better writer than I am.
BTW - It is difficult for me as well...
Andrea
Well said. You are a better writer than I am.
BTW - It is difficult for me as well...
Andrea
carebear
Member
Thanks pax. That's the kind of info that I was looking for.
Typhoon
Member
Well, pax, my Dad was a shooter. I learned the FOUR RULES as soon as I learned how to use chopsticks, but that’s another story…
Ummm…Dad officially armed me when I was eighteen years old. He had to go abroad for work. I was home from college. Only my Mom, my sister and I were living at home at the time. The NightStalker was running around. Richard Ramirez himself…
Dad handed me a Winchester 12 gauge one day, and said, “If it really came down to it, I believe that you would actually be the only one who could pull the trigger.â€
Yikes! It took quite a bit of introspection on that one.
I did accept the gun and, at that point, decided that I could pull the trigger if I had to.
I still have that shotgun.
As to the training…
I did understand that the original Winchester needed some upgrading. My original thought was to upgrade that shotgun itself. A good friend talked me into trying a pistol class with Brett McQueen and Scott Reitz.
And so my training adventure began…(and since I live in an apartment, the shotgun would likely have been a poor choice).
Despite what the flamers might say…
Ummm…Dad officially armed me when I was eighteen years old. He had to go abroad for work. I was home from college. Only my Mom, my sister and I were living at home at the time. The NightStalker was running around. Richard Ramirez himself…
Dad handed me a Winchester 12 gauge one day, and said, “If it really came down to it, I believe that you would actually be the only one who could pull the trigger.â€
Yikes! It took quite a bit of introspection on that one.
I did accept the gun and, at that point, decided that I could pull the trigger if I had to.
I still have that shotgun.
As to the training…
I did understand that the original Winchester needed some upgrading. My original thought was to upgrade that shotgun itself. A good friend talked me into trying a pistol class with Brett McQueen and Scott Reitz.
And so my training adventure began…(and since I live in an apartment, the shotgun would likely have been a poor choice).
Despite what the flamers might say…
Gus Dddysgrl
Member
Pax- great response. I'll have to remember it if I get asked again.
If a man is standing wrong and teaching a woman wrong go tell him, not her, but in a nice way. She'll get it and follow you, but he might not.
(side note-Jon does more cooking and cleaning cause I'm out working and carrying. It's not gender specific just a balance to make sure everything gets done/covered.)
If we have a get together I'll bring chex mix.
Gus
If a man is standing wrong and teaching a woman wrong go tell him, not her, but in a nice way. She'll get it and follow you, but he might not.
(side note-Jon does more cooking and cleaning cause I'm out working and carrying. It's not gender specific just a balance to make sure everything gets done/covered.)
If we have a get together I'll bring chex mix.
Gus
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