Gunnerpalace
Member
TexasRifleman, and others
Have you shot the collapsible stock version?
Have you shot the collapsible stock version?
Few questions about the HK91 clone known as PTR-91
- Thread starter dodging230grainers
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dodging230grainers
Member
HK heavy buffer...like this one?
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=949554
Reading one of the customer's reviews from midway, he had a problem installing it on a PTR-91.
Perhaps this one advertised for CETME's will work in a PTR91?
http://www.milsurpstuff.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CT1
Also, as far as folders go, check out this one:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=211942
its a Choate, but it says it has a built in recoil buffer. Good reviews. Thumbs up?
What say you guys?
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=949554
Reading one of the customer's reviews from midway, he had a problem installing it on a PTR-91.
Perhaps this one advertised for CETME's will work in a PTR91?
http://www.milsurpstuff.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CT1
Also, as far as folders go, check out this one:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=211942
its a Choate, but it says it has a built in recoil buffer. Good reviews. Thumbs up?
What say you guys?
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
When I bought my PTR91 a couple of years ago I bought the version with the HK style collapsible and 16 inch barrel.
Almost immediately I ordered a Magpul PRS and don't regret it a bit, that is an amazing stock especially with an optic on the PTR91.
If you have any interest in a scope the G3 isn't an easy rifle. Cheek weld is tough because the optics tend to mount so high but the PRS fixes that.
The HK collapsible is in a box somewhere in my garage.
The buttpad is very narrow, making the recoil of an already violent rifle even that much worse. Using the stock, extending and retracting, is cumbersome as well.
I really wanted to like it, it's a great looking stock, but it doesn't seem to be practical at all.
After shooting the rifle for a while I decided that this thing just had too much recoil to be something I wanted to use as folding stock carbine.
I put the collapsible stock on it when I want to take pictures because it really is one of the best looking stocks ever put on a rifle, but it has no real world usability at all (my opinion of course).
So, I keep it for collector value and because I'm a packrat with gun parts
If I were buying one today I'd get one with the Magpul stock already on it or order one at the same time, and probably the longer barrel.
I like the idea in theory of the AR style collapsible stock but it doesn't seem to make the overall length that much less.
Functionally the rifle has been rock solid and digested every kind of odd .308 I've found.
When I find some funky .308 round, surplus or whatever, and I want to see if it will shoot, I run it through the PTR first. I'm not sure you could tear one of these things up
dodging230grainers
Member
Can anyone post a link to, or recommend a brand of a stock buffer that fits and works in a PTR-91? Thanks
nalioth
Member
What do you mean by "stock buffer" ?dodging230grainers said:
Some types of recoil buffer will crack the receivers on these rifles.
If you clarify "stock buffer", I can provide more info.
dodging230grainers
Member
I think I mean a recoil buffer, like this:http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=949554
Any suggestions for one of those that work well in PTR's?
Any suggestions for one of those that work well in PTR's?
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Don't get your expectations up with those things. They don't really reduce the felt recoil, they just stop some of the metal to metal impact that people believe reduces the life of the weapon. I stuck one in my rifle, and I use them in lots of 1911' for the same reason, probably just believing the marketing
dodging230grainers
Member
But they do fit in the PTR91, and don't hurt the gun, right?
For $20 then it's worth one I think =D
Also, is the milspec normal-length stock the best stock for reducing felt recoil?
For $20 then it's worth one I think =D
Also, is the milspec normal-length stock the best stock for reducing felt recoil?
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Nah, won't hurt a thing. Not sure it does anything but won't hurt
I have one in mine.
The truth is this is a heavy hitting gun recoil wise simply because of the way it's designed. Not much is going to mitigate that.
It's not uncomfortable, but you do know it's there. Lots of people recommend a muzzle brake but I don't dig those myself.
The increase in noise and felt blast is more annoying to me than the recoil so I skip them.
It's really not bad with a standard stock, just that danged collapsible thing. Wow.
I didn't check the link, but if you guys are referring to the Buffer Tech buffer, I have one installed on my German wood stock.
It does reduce a bit of the jarring that you get with the steel buffer,it won't fall apart, it won't rust.
I also use a small size slip on Kick-Eze recoil pad on the rifle with the polymer and the wood stock, it cuts an amazing amount of felt recoil.
May look goofy to some people but it works, the rifle is pleasant to shoot and I buy rifles to shoot, not just to look at.
I have shot full auto G3A2 rifles with the German collapsing stock and I don't care for the feel of the cheek weld.
The German collapsing stock assembly is actually heavier than a standard stock and perceived recoil is more straight back into the shoulder.
The late German and the Portugese stocks have a softer, wider recoil pad than the earlier German collapser stocks.
It still feels like a folding AK stock on your cheek.
You can install a steel or polymer buffer on the Choate stock.
It does reduce a bit of the jarring that you get with the steel buffer,it won't fall apart, it won't rust.
I also use a small size slip on Kick-Eze recoil pad on the rifle with the polymer and the wood stock, it cuts an amazing amount of felt recoil.
May look goofy to some people but it works, the rifle is pleasant to shoot and I buy rifles to shoot, not just to look at.
I have shot full auto G3A2 rifles with the German collapsing stock and I don't care for the feel of the cheek weld.
The German collapsing stock assembly is actually heavier than a standard stock and perceived recoil is more straight back into the shoulder.
The late German and the Portugese stocks have a softer, wider recoil pad than the earlier German collapser stocks.
It still feels like a folding AK stock on your cheek.
You can install a steel or polymer buffer on the Choate stock.
nalioth
Member
dodging230grainers said:
PLEASE DO NOT USE ONE OF THOSE.
You will crack your brand new receiver.
What you may not know, is that inside your brand new PTR-91 is a brand new recoil buffer (one that was thought up way back in the 50s when this design was put on paper). It is parts 45, 46, 69, 70 and 80 in this schematic. If you want more recoil reduction, find a HK21 or PSG1 recoil buffer ( they are larger than the rifle version and fit inside the stock just like the original G3 type ).
After you fire 30,000 rounds and wear out the factory recoil buffer, then you can worry about getting a new one.
Please don't get me started on aftermarket recoil buffers.
dodging230grainers
Member
Onmilo, nice G3. Is it a PTR, or an original HK?
Also, are you referring to the Choate side-folder? It does look like a nice option. Any experiences with one?
Also, are you referring to the Choate side-folder? It does look like a nice option. Any experiences with one?
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Well, I guess I have to.
Can you point to a real problem with these? I know LOTS of people using them without any problems.
I hear the same thing on the 1911 forums, "you'll destroy your gun".
My Delta Elite with well over 50,000 rounds is quite happy with them.
So is there some reality here? I'd truly like to hear it if you have something, seriously.
dodging230grainers
Member
Nalioth, what part of Houston you in? Ever go to American shooting centers on westheimer pkwy? If you'd let me try a few rounds through your PTR, I'd gladly cover my ammo costs, and share a few rounds with you.
nalioth
Member
The recoil buffers linked in D230Gs post stop the bolt carrier from traveling all the way to the rear ( where it contacts the factory recoil buffer ), and imparts a lot of force onto the take down pinholes and pins.
The receiver in this area is not designed for this direction of force, and cracks can appear.
If you NEED more recoil reduction, see my post above and use a heavier HK buffer, not an aftermarket drop-in.
You will notice the recoil buffers use the buttstock to push against, not any part of the receiver.
The receiver in this area is not designed for this direction of force, and cracks can appear.
If you NEED more recoil reduction, see my post above and use a heavier HK buffer, not an aftermarket drop-in.
You will notice the recoil buffers use the buttstock to push against, not any part of the receiver.
dodging230grainers
Member
nalioth, (or anyone else)
Would aftermarket green furniture like this fit the PTR91 without any tooling?
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MGR281-1427-1821.html
If so, considering its priced so cheap, would that be worth installing a recoil buffer, as I doubt it has one...
Going a different route, CDNN offers a 16" PTR-91 with a side-folder already attached. Is the side folder they use the high quality Choate one? Would this setup really reduce the overall bulk and weight of the fullsize HK91 platform?
thanks
Would aftermarket green furniture like this fit the PTR91 without any tooling?
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MGR281-1427-1821.html
If so, considering its priced so cheap, would that be worth installing a recoil buffer, as I doubt it has one...
Going a different route, CDNN offers a 16" PTR-91 with a side-folder already attached. Is the side folder they use the high quality Choate one? Would this setup really reduce the overall bulk and weight of the fullsize HK91 platform?
thanks
nalioth
Member
Oh, TexasRifleman, I find most recoil buffers to be a solution in search of a problem ( and some of them make their own problems [as in this case] ).
Most all firearms designed in the last 100 years have had the technology available at the time of their inception that if a recoil buffer were desired, their inventors would have chosen to do so.
and YES, some inventors have used buffers in their guns.
The PPSH-41 uses a leather disc as a buffer.
The 10-22 has a metal "buffer" from the factory (Ruger calls it a bolt stop).
If the inventor didn't think it was necessary, who are we to second-guess them?
Most all firearms designed in the last 100 years have had the technology available at the time of their inception that if a recoil buffer were desired, their inventors would have chosen to do so.
and YES, some inventors have used buffers in their guns.
The PPSH-41 uses a leather disc as a buffer.
The 10-22 has a metal "buffer" from the factory (Ruger calls it a bolt stop).
If the inventor didn't think it was necessary, who are we to second-guess them?
nalioth
Member
D230Gs, that furniture at CTD is G3 furniture and will fit your PTR-91 just fine.
One problem is, that stuff is German and your PTR-91 furniture is US made.
The second problem is: those are off military guns, and their buffers (they still have 'em) may be in any condition from "new, unissued" to "gone to hell and back".
I'm not a fan of folding stocks on the G3/Cetme. It is such a large rifle to start with, and the Choate stock really doesn't reduce the length enough (in my opinion) to make it worthwhile.
One problem is, that stuff is German and your PTR-91 furniture is US made.
The second problem is: those are off military guns, and their buffers (they still have 'em) may be in any condition from "new, unissued" to "gone to hell and back".
I'm not a fan of folding stocks on the G3/Cetme. It is such a large rifle to start with, and the Choate stock really doesn't reduce the length enough (in my opinion) to make it worthwhile.
dodging230grainers
Member
Thanks nali.
Couple more questions:
With the proper milspec stock, will it be easier to use optics, due to better cheekweld?
Also, how do aftermarket carrying handles work? This one for $40 looks promising:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=410212
Do they function well? Ease of installation? What say you?
Couple more questions:
With the proper milspec stock, will it be easier to use optics, due to better cheekweld?
Also, how do aftermarket carrying handles work? This one for $40 looks promising:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=410212
Do they function well? Ease of installation? What say you?
Gunnerpalace
Member
Just saw one.
I like it, they have the Sig Blaser look I like that thanks.nalioth
Member
IMHO, you should use your sling to carry your rifle, not a carry handle.
Your optics choices are up in the air, so 'military stock' versus 'whatever else' is really unanswerable at this time.
Your optics choices are up in the air, so 'military stock' versus 'whatever else' is really unanswerable at this time.
dodging230grainers
Member
edit: nvm
People really put that stuff in their rifles?
Man, all I use is the BufferTech buffer to keep the bolt carrier from bouncing off the front of the metal buffer.
I can't see any reason for installing any of the other metal buffers, the G3 just doesn't recoil that hard in semi automatic and it sure doesn't need the HK21 machinegun buffer.
Oh, forget trying to remove the buffer that comes installed in the US made PTR stock, they glue them in with epoxy and they glue the buttpad on with the same epoxy.
Some of the newer rifles have stock that feature the through holes in the rear of the stock that are there for holding the takedown pins so they don't become lost while cleaning the rifle and they should also support the spring clamps that hold the military buttplate in place which means it should just pull straight off to access the interal area of the buttstock but no, they glue those on too.
My rifle is a PTR-91, the furniture is German surplus except for the grip.
Man, all I use is the BufferTech buffer to keep the bolt carrier from bouncing off the front of the metal buffer.
I can't see any reason for installing any of the other metal buffers, the G3 just doesn't recoil that hard in semi automatic and it sure doesn't need the HK21 machinegun buffer.
Oh, forget trying to remove the buffer that comes installed in the US made PTR stock, they glue them in with epoxy and they glue the buttpad on with the same epoxy.
Some of the newer rifles have stock that feature the through holes in the rear of the stock that are there for holding the takedown pins so they don't become lost while cleaning the rifle and they should also support the spring clamps that hold the military buttplate in place which means it should just pull straight off to access the interal area of the buttstock but no, they glue those on too.
My rifle is a PTR-91, the furniture is German surplus except for the grip.
dodging230grainers
Member
Onmilo, I'm looking to add some G3 surplus furniture too to my PTR-91.
For $10 at CTD, I can get a surplus olive drab G3 furniture kit. Where'd you get yours from? Also, did the buffer it come with seem to be in good condition, or did you have to switch it out for a buffertech buffer?
For $10 at CTD, I can get a surplus olive drab G3 furniture kit. Where'd you get yours from? Also, did the buffer it come with seem to be in good condition, or did you have to switch it out for a buffertech buffer?
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