Fighting over the magazines

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english kanigit

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And I don't mean periodicals either.


A couple of days ago I was at the movie theatre with some friends. We were all out in the atrium talking and waiting for the rest of our group.

As I was talking I felt something poke into my kidney area. Not all that hard really, but definately enough to know it was there. As I turned, I found myself eyeball to eyeball with a Wichita police officer. Before I could do much of anything he said, "You had better have a badge."

I work at a shooting range. I'm required to be armed on the premises for obvious reasons. At the end of the day, the gun and holster came off my person and were put in their appropriate areas in the vehicle for storage.

As I was in a hurry, I didn't bother to take off my magpouch. It is not illegal in the city of Wichita to carry magazines. (I did however find out that one of our suburbs considers a loaded mag or speedloader a loaded weapon. Interesting... :scrutiny: )

Back to the theatre...

After the officer stated his hope that I had a badge I had to tell him no, I did not. I proceeded to tell him where I worked, that I was unarmed and that it was, to the best of my knowledge, legal to carry magazines.

Everything up to this point wasn't a huge problem for me... he's trying to do his job and I really can't blame him.

But when he offers to cuff and search me if I don't remove the mags that's when I start to get aggitated. Long story short, it wasn't worth the fight. I had a feeling it would go in a bad direction if I stood my ground.

Any ideas from the board?

ek
 
I think the way he "nudged you" says it all. He was not looking to make a scene. He probably thought you were an off duty or plainclothes LEO, and doing a bad job of hiding your stuff. Did he have you remove the magazines from the theather, or did he just wanted you to get them out of sight?

Either way while I don't know KS law, you probably did nothing illegal, but movie theaters are funny places in terms of what you can or cannot bring in. If you would have resisted and spouted off your 2nd admendedment rights, you probably would have gotten kicked out, and or charged with disturbing the peace. Not a fun way to spend a Saturday night.
 
Did you place the magazines in your car? Or did he confiscate them?
If the first one, you did good. That sounds like the wrong time and place for a challenge. If the second, I think you should find out if they were turned in, or went into his personal collection.
 
I've always likened this kind of deal to a traffic situation: I have the green light and the right of way. The law says so. Now, is that gonna keep some doofus in a dumptruck from running the red light and smearing my precious body?

Nope. So, I tend to look as I approach a green light; I'll happily yield the right of way to the dump truck.

To me, it's just common sense to opt for peace and quiet, regardless of "rights". If I'm really bothered about some minor foolishness, I'll either personally contact the Cop In Charge, later on, or write a polite letter--with a carbon to the mayor or the county judge. At the time of some confrontation, however, I'm not gonna agitate somebody's ego. I didn't get this old by starting stuff I knew I couldn't win. :)

Art
 
This sort of thing makes me glad to live in a state where you can walk around with a gun on your hip and a high-cap mag ductaped to your forehead if you so desire.
 
I'm giving the cop the benefit of the doubt on this one. He seemed relatively polite and discrete. If *I* saw someone printing a mag pouch, I might logically assume he has a gun somewhere on his person. The cop, it seems, was doing his job to test that assumption. Perhaps the cuffing is SOP.

K
 
Everything up to this point wasn't a huge problem for me... he's trying to do his job and I really can't blame him.
Click to expand...

Yeah, never mind little things like the 2nd Amendment and human rights. He was just doing his job.
 
never mind rights

cop was following up on a possible armed person. You seem okay with that.

Your mags suggests you may be armed. You gave that point away.

Now the cop wants to save face. Why get upset?



I'd tell myself to cool down, LET the guy save face, maybe even praise him for being alert (and polite?).

After all, you have the right to complain about him afterwards and maybe even bust his balls. Just don't try it at the then and there. It says more about you that you permit the cop to save his face. He may even think he's giving a compromise by focusing his attention on your mag. He's just habitually using cuffing as a leverage to get what he wants (something about maintaining control, kinda silly if you're both mature).

So carry on. You've chosen peace and harmony up to this point, why not carry it through? He's actually on your side. Both trying to keep the peace. He just has chafing way to go about it. Comes from dealing with immature low lives too often. Not a pleasant job.


And yes, I know, I'd feel the threat chafe. Maybe one day I'll grow so mature that it won't chafe at all. But in the mean time, I'd choose to be the bigger man and permit the cop to send my mags off.
 
I believe that Kansas recently passed a "shall issue" concealed weapons permit law. If I lived in that state I would apply for one. Thereafter - unless the theater (or wherever) was posted - I would hand it to the officer when he started asking questions. A lot of good people worked long and hard to get that law passed, and those who live in Kansas should take advantage of it.;)
 
Since the LEO said he would cuff and search you I get the feeling he did not believe you were unarmed...why carry mag's for no firearm?

And, if you are searching for a gun, which having mag's might give him probable cause to do it makes since to handcuff first so you don't "try" anything when he "finds" the gun. I know you were unarmed but he probaly didn't think so.

By letting you remove the mag's he gave you a chance to stash your gun back in the car.

If you look at it this way he was doing you a favor.

Just another way to see things.
 
I'm thinking that I sense some elitism on the part of the cop.

If not, then a case of sour grapes over KS passing their concealed carry law.

The "subjects" can apply on Jan. 1, 2007, but it went into effect July 1 2006. Further, carrying concealed even now, without the permission slip is only a misdemeanor.

Yes, we had the same type of growing pains here in MO. It takes a while for the leos to figger out that just cause a guy is armed it don't mean he's a criminal.

After a few faux passes on their part, they will chill out. Even if a leo is a slow learner, he will be unwilling to make himself look like a fool forever.

Yes, Mr. ek, look at this episode as providing a learning experience for Officer Friendly.
 
Mr. Medula,

The law took effect 7-1-06. Concealed carry is the law in KS NOW. Only trouble is.........the "subjects" can't apply yet.

I don't know what are the reciprocities yet (maybe none, who knows?), but the thrust of the cop's initial rib poke with comment "You better have a Badge", rings through to me as elitism.

So at 11:55 pm on News Years Eve you will attempt to justify the cop's action, since it isn't the law yet.

Then by the time the "Subject" gets his ride down town it will no longer be a crime. Sounds like sour grapes.

Yes, Andy Taylor is dead.
 
I am sorry if you perceived that I was at your throat.

This is an alleged pro-gun group. Dedicated to restoration of 2a.

I was trying to point out the fallacy of repealing laws on dates certain.

That is to say, if an activity is unlawful today but will be lawful tomorrow then the "letter-of-the-law" enforcement of an arguably unconstitutional law just makes leos appear foolish. No common sense.

If it is not a crime tomorrow, then it is not a crime today.

Crime is best defined as the wrongful taking of the life, liberty or property of another. Anything beyond that is just a law against the state and when our rulers recognize the errors of their convoluted law making and attempt to right that wrong, they should do it immediately.

If, as in this case, they do not, a little discretion on the part of le would go a long way toward amelierating the "Us vs Them" perception.
 
VYNX said:
By letting you remove the mag's he gave you a chance to stash your gun back in the car.

If you look at it this way he was doing you a favor.
Click to expand...

As the initial :cuss: factor wore off and I started thinking about what the cop said and that's the same impression that I got.

*shrugs*
I'm over it. I am wondering how long it'll take WPD to adjust to Kansas CCW law this coming year.

God help people in Topeka and KC... :(


ek
 
...So I'm walking down the street one day.
Cop walks up and says, "Sure hope you have a driver's license, boy."

:rolleyes:
 
Bit of a sidebar here.

Since KS law is already in effect, but residents cannot apply until Jan 1, was there any non-resident/ reciprocity in the law from day 1?
 
ID

...So I'm walking down the street one day.
Cop walks up and says, "Sure hope you have a driver's license, boy."
Click to expand...

If your state has a stop and ID statute, then you would have to answer. If not, you refuse to answer citing Kollender v. Lawson.
 
What are the procedures for a cop searching anyone for a gun? Is there a probable cause requirement, something like if you're printing or if someone else says they thought they saw a gun? Assuming a legal search, is it SOP to cuff you while they do it?

As far as your reaction, I'd say it could go either way. The same way cops treat us different based on how we treat them, I think it goes both ways.

I generally think very highly of cops and agree with not causing undue trouble because I think their intentions are good. But if they're being unprofessional or unpleasant when it's not called for, I don't have any problem being a stickler about the rules on the scene and/or talking to the higher ups later on.

My philosophy is to go with the flow and give the officer the benefit of the doubt, but don't be afraid of an argument or scene if you're being bullied.
 
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