First Defensive Use of Handgun

[sm]

arrgghhh
Chris...I also gave him a brand new 870 some years ago...
Niece is small for her age of six.

Granted here in my apt I don't always keep a shotgun around, my experience and my travels ,I'm more concerned about entering and leaving my apt...not much room and them walls ain't thick...plus I tend to keep a SG stoked with slugs.

Last dog (s)I shot was down on the farm, rabid pack was heading for the kids , of farm hands and such in a designated area. Oh I didn't reach for the 1911 I carry...12 ga slug on a running target, one shot - one kill. Then I hunted the other bastards down,roped , dragged to bonfire...let the kids roast weirners and marshmellows.

Dogs and I get along great, I miss one of mine and those of others since passed on.

I just subscribe to having the mindset, and the ability to use certain tools when needed. "I was in fear of the safety of children". I used enough gun ( slugs) and I was using backup to watch six. I meant business tho'. And yes a slug will take a running German Shepard mixed breed something or other down , 24 steps away ... all those clays birds paid off...head shot...'bout the size of a clay target if ya think about it. I like slugs when stuff gets serious.

Sure convinced a farm hand to carry on person and not leave his pistol in the truck. He also was my backup with a shotgun and pistol. He has since learned the way of the shotgun and keeps one handy. He had two kids that day out playing. I don't speak Spanish...his English is passable..."firearms" is a universal language...he learned well.

 

[one45auto]

sm,

Sorry to hear about your neice. It's difficult for me to accept also, but there are people in this world who won't pick up a weapon to defend anyone or anything - not even their own children. Now I don't know if that was true in his case, and I'm certainly not implying that it was, I'm merely commenting on the aversion to firearms (not to mention self-defense in general) which seems to be the norm amongst a certain segment of our population. I suppose that we all have relatives who've been so thoroughly brainwashed by the media (not to mention Sarah Brady and her ilk) that they truly believe the best reaction to any unpleasant situation is to surrender, give in to an attacker's demands, or speed dial 911.

 

[1911Tuner]

Big Bad Danes

fjolnirsson said:

Like many other things, it all comes down to training.
Mine are very protective, and very vicious if someone isn't supposed to be there.

Bingo! Like any other dog...It's how you handle'em. On the Danes, I meant biggest sissies with members of their own "pack"...the family.

Now, if they'd been Labs, they would have invited the burglars in, put on
a pot of coffee, and fetched items of interest for'em.

One of the throwdown MEANEST dogs I've ever seen was a 12-inch Beagle.
If he was tied, he'd back up on the rope and wag his tail to encourage you to come closer. He'd reach around a piece of steak and go for the hand that was feeding him. I think maybe he was nuts or somethin'.

I've also got a pair of Black Labs. The male epitomizes the "Lab...friend to all-threat to no one" reputation. The female is the exception to that rule.
Until she is satisfied that there is no evil in the mind of the man, she is ready to do battle at a hat-drop.

It appears that Minute-of-Torso has a problem that is far too common in this Age of Aquarius. The dog in question is vicious, and the mentality of its owner is such that any reasonable request for cooperation would be
met with scorn...and any action against the dog would make him the object
of a midnight retaliation. A sad commentary of the times.

As much as I love dogs, and as much scorn that I have for people who are
deliberately cruel to them...there is a line that must be drawn when a dog
has proven itself vicious and willing to attack or even threaten to attack unprovoked If the dog is a potential threat to children, and is pretty much allowed to free-roam, it goes double-triple.

The best course of action under these unique circumstances is to let it
lay for a while and leave the dog a treat laced with a suitable poison.
Don't use a delivery method that would be attractive to anything but a dog...a paper plate with a few mouthfuls of Alpo laced with fresh beef blood
would do it. For the poison, use finely chopped "Death Cap" mushrooms,
so that in case the dog is autopsied, no commercial poison will be found.
Any mushroom that has black gills on the underside is a killer. If these
don't tend to grow in your yard, go into the shady areas of the woods after a few days of rain. They'll be there. And don't tell ANYBODY of your
plan...before or after the fact. Do it quietly. If you are accused of the act,
offer to pay to have the dog autopsied. When a natural substance is found, the vet will report "accidental ingestion". The dog was likely
playing with a mushroom, and swallowed some of it. I lost a dog
to this once. Now I keep a close check on my yard and remove any that I
find growing.

No need to go overboard with the substance. A teaspoonful in a can of dog food will do. Understand that the dog will suffer badly with this type of
poisoning, and I hope that no one would use this method except as a
pre-emptive defensive measure. Dirty business...but some situations leave
us with no other choice.

Good luck.

Tuner

 

[Shane333]

1911Tuner,

I understand your post, but I just couldn't bring myself to use poison like that. I just don't have it in me to intentionally cause such suffering Well, Osama and those like him might change my feelings, but dogs don't sell their souls to the devil like that.

Insects are an exception. I can poison those and still sleep well at night.

 

[1911Tuner]

Big Heart

Howdy Shane,

I understand completely, and appreciate your thoughts on the subject. As much as I love dogs, it would have to be an extreme circumstance for me to do that. I would consider it only if:

The dog was a very real and often posed threat.

The dog had made aggressive moves toward a child.
(I can handle a dog with a sharp stick. Children can't)

The owners of the dog were of such a mentality that any action that I were to take through proper channels would result in retaliation. People like that have no qualms about lighting a match to your house while you're asleep.

Luck!

Tuner

 

[Shane333]

"The dog had made aggressive moves toward a child.
(I can handle a dog with a sharp stick. Children can't)" --1911Tuner

Can't argue with you there. I'd kill with my bare hands to defend my little boy or girl if need be. Point well taken.

 

[mondocomputerman]

I tried ex-lax in some venison once. Mean dog.

 

[MaterDei]

arinvolvo,

I agree with everything you've said about German Shepard Dogs. I had a white German Shepard (bred to be white, not an albino). That dog had a sense about it that was uncanny. In addition to being an awesome 'guard' dog she was great around kids. I have 6 kids who all, to some extent, grew up with her. I never once saw her so much as growl at one of my children. She would just lie patiently as babies and toddlers literally crawled over her, pulling on her ears and nose. On many occassions I saw her put herself between a small child and the street becase she just knew that the child was wandering too close to potential danger.

Once we got a call from a lady who lived about 3 blocks away. My son, on his bike, had somehow gotten turned around and was lost. He was 5 at the time and was crying. This kind neighbor asked him what was wrong. He knew his phone number so the lady called us. I went to fetch him cursing myself for letting him wonder off like that. When I got to her street there was my boy... and there was my dog too, standing beside him, watching over him. I can't express how valued a companion like that is.

Anybody wanting a dog should really consider a GSD.

 

[1911Tuner]

German Shepherds

Mater Dei,

I picked up a stray White Shepherd about 2 months ago. I had seen him
along the highway for about 2 weeks, and was finally able to get a leash on him after I found him playing with a bunch of kids in the local Food Lion
parking lot. The parents looked a little nervous over this large dog...and he was HUGE...nuzzling their family. He came with me as willingly as if he had known me all his life.

I got him home and in the basement. With 3 male Collies in the house, I didn't want any problems...He was an absolute delight, and warmed up to
everybody quickly. A friend of mine told me that if I couldn't find the owner
in a reasonable amount of time that he would take him in a heartbeat.

I found the owner, and all was well. Seems he had a habit of escaping when he was left alone for more than about 6-8 hours. We had him for a
week, and had gotten pretty well attached to him.

A month later, Kelie spotted him again on the side of the highway, and I went to try to find him again. No luck. 3 days after that, I saw him on
the highway in the same area...dead. I wish now that I had just turned him over to Steve and kept my mouth shut. Such a beautiful dog, and a gentle giant. I nearly cried when I saw him on that road. Sad.

German Shepherds are very good family dogs. Gentle with the "pack" and
hell on whoever might be foolish enough to make a threatening move. They are a lot like Collies in one respect. They seem to have an instinct about people and their underlying motives and intentions. If my dogs
don't warm up to somebody pretty quickly, there's usually a reason to keep
an eye on that person, because there's something not quite right about'em. As far as I know, they haven't been wrong yet.

Luck!

Tuner

 

[Mr. Mysterious]

While we are talking about GS's, what do they cost?

 

[W Turner]

Mysterious-cost is completely dependent on how much you want to spend. I have seen GSD pups that were being given away that ended up being great, healthy dogs, I have also heard of 1k+ pups that developed hip dysplasia(sp?) at 2 years old.

The best thing to do is to search around for a breeder in your area, ask at reputable vet's offices and visit the breeder's place long before you are ready to buy. This allow you to do two things: 1-be around the parents of your potential puppy and the breed as a whole and 2-see how many litters of puppies are produced by each bitch. It should never be more than one litter of pups per year, and some good breeders only breed them every other year.
*Don't be afraid to ask questions
*Ask if the parents have been OFA (Orthopedic Foundation of America) certified and ask to see the certificates
*Get the names and numbers of people who have bought dogs(most good breeders will keep this information)

I didn't do most of the stuff I listed above before I bought my female GSD and got lucky. She was the runt of the litter(heaviest she has ever been is 70lbs. and she usually stays at 60) and her coloring is a little off, but she is one of the best dogs anyone could ask for and she is great around kids.

The only time I have ever seen her show any aggression toward a child was about a week ago.
My stepmother keeps her nephews (2yo and newborn) and the 2 yr old insisted on pulling her tail after being told not to and having his hand smacked. He did it one time and Sera turned around, grabbed his hand with her mouth, held it for just a minute and looked him dead in the eye. I could swear I heard her say " OK kid, thats enough."
He hasn't done it since and she didn't leave a mark on him.

I am by no means an expert, but I love this breed and have done a fair amount of research on them and have owned a GSD mix and/or purebred for six years.

PM me for more ideas, tips, etc.

Mino

 

[Bobster]

I think I would have had my gun out, poited at the dog and then go in the house. The snarler could have taken a leap and gotten one of you on the way in the house. I wasn't there, and am glad I wasn't. Good work, it's easy to second guess with no adrenalin rush in the comfort of my family room.

 

[MaterDei]

Tuner

That's a sad story but you did the right thing regardless of what hindsight is telling you.

My shepard would get out of the yard too from time to time. It wasn't because she wanted to roam, it was because she didn't like being alone. Where I live the houses all have 6 ft. wooden picket fences. It just drove her nuts when she heard people in the front yard and she couldn't even see them. When she wanted out she would jump the fence, no problem at all.

I was worried that something similar would happen to her that happened to your white GS so I got smart! I decided to build my fence up to 8 feet. That was a lot of work but I was willing to do it to protect my dog. So there I was after a long day of work sweating and admiring my fence when all of the sudden over bounds my dog! I was so upset, but so proud. Heh!

 

[1911Tuner]

The "Right" Thing

Mater Dei said:

That's a sad story but you did the right thing regardless of what hindsight is telling you.
_______________________

I wonder. He was a special dog...One of those dogs that you get a certain
feeling about. Probably the biggest Shepherd I've seen, and I almost
believe that there's a Great Dane in the woodpile somewhere.


He was immediately drawn to my step-daughter...a petite 11 year-old,
and it was funny to see this behemoth rolling around on the floor with
a little girl that looked to be about half his size. When we'd get the
Collies put down for the night, we'd let him upstairs in the house, and
the first place he would head for was to crawl into bed with her.

If I had my time to do over, I'd do the "wrong" thing, It was pretty obvous
that the peolpe who owned him weren't too concerned with his wanderlust,
and didn't make provisions to keep him off the highway.

Funny how this thread went from "What to do about a vicious Dog" to
a dog lover's commentary. Dog people are about as fanatic over their
favorites as gun people... We tend to get sidetracked at a hat-drop.

Tuner

 

[BluesBear]

Tuner,

I feel your pain.

My first GS was probably the best friend I have ever had.
I owned and raised German Shepherds for almost 20 years. I got my first one when I was 15. I too had a "special" one. He was HUGE. WHen I try to describe hos intelligence and personality to people who have never had the GS experience they just can't comprehend it.

This thread has brought back a flood of memories.
Thank you for that My Friend.

 

[MaterDei]

Sorry for the high jack, MOT

.

 

[1911Tuner]

Memories

I hear ya BluesBear.

I hear people talk about dogs in a "Dumb Animal" light. I have to laugh at
that. Anybody who says that dogs "Act purely on instinct and don't have
the capacity to think or reason" have never lived with one...and you really can't understand it until you have'em in multiples.

They're far more intelligent than one might suspect, and they're more aware than you can believe...until you see it for yourself. Around here,
it's a constant game between us and the dogs to see if they can outsmart us...and sometimes they win.

I actually have to spell certain words around my Collies to prevent a Mad Moment...and they've even figured out some of the spelling. Scoobie
Doo's "Dogspeak" isn't too far fetched either...My female Collie does it
on a regular basis. When something gets knocked over or removed from
the garbage can, and we interrogate her on it, she'll say "I dont know"
as plain as day. If she's guilty, she gives herself away with a toothy grin.
She says "Yeah" when she needs to go out..."No" when she is innocent
of an accusation...and when she breaks wind, she'll walk out of the room and grin when everybody evacuates the area in a rush. These things
weren't trained into her either.

Amazing critters. For people who refuse to have a dog as part of the family unit, I say..."Your loss."

Mater Dei...That's a beautiful Shepherd, and from the look in the eyes, a
gentle one to boot.

Woof!

Tuner

 

[CZSteve]

911 is for emergency's, once you and your daughter were inside the house you were safe. I would simply suggest that you should have found the non-emergency number for your local law enforcement, but thats just a pet -peeve of mine. Having said that, I think you handled the situation appropriately.

As has been mentioned, some cities REQUIRE you to call 911 for non-emergency.

Arlington, TX
Our house backs up to a large park where all too often we have the obnoxious 'booming' music/bass from cars after baseball games.
Called the standard police # from the phone book to file a noise complaint and request a cruiser to patrol at their convenience since it was not an emergency, but was getting late at night.

Was told I need to call 911 for ANY Police request.

This is a perfect example as to why reponse times and sometimes not even being able to get through to 911 w/out being put on hold is a problem.
We're a city of 353,000; this is nuts :banghead:

Did have an article a few months ago on how the city is considering going to a 311 system.
But, the ad campaign to inform the public would be too costly.

My thoughts: How about just post a few articles in the paper and inform those who don't catch the articles when they call 911.

 

[bratch]

Older thread but had a question not at all relating to original intent

Turner: Whats your take on Austrialian Shepards? We've always had one just kinda curious of any experiences or thoughts I've enjoyed reading your post.

 

[1911Tuner]

Aussies!

Aussies are The clowns of the herders. Life is a never-ending game.
Smart. Hyper...most of'em. Fast! So loyal that they'll wag their tail and
lick your hand while you hit'em., and never hold a grudge.

These bright-eyed Border Collies with stubby tails will herd anyYthing that moves. If you don't give'em somethin' to herd, they'll herd kids, cats, rats, ants..I mean ANYthing! My neighbor had a little female tri-color Aussie
that would run over here and try to herd my Collies. It'd make ya dizzy
to watch'em all tryin' to herd each other. I've got videos. If the
Collies were in the house, she'd flush one of the cats and the game was on.

I saw the dog stir up a nest of Yellow Jackets one afternoon. They swarmed outta the ground in attack formation, and I SWEAR the dog
was tryin' to herd'em up and get'em back in the ground! By the time
David got her to give up on'em, her nose looked like a Great Dane's.

Great little dogs. 'Course, I'm a sucker for the herding breeds, and
my opinions are admittedly biased.

 

[g21forme]

I would have shot it as soon as I pulled my firearm.
1) It was a pit bull
2) Your daughter was 10 ft away


Have you ever seen one of those dogs chomp down on a tree limb? No thanks I don't want that to be my arm or my daughter's throat. good night pooch