First Defensive Use of Handgun
- Thread starter Minute_Of_Torso
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Mr. Mysterious
Member
So...how about the legality of all this dog stuff?
A snarling dog is in front of you and you fear that yourself (or your little daughter) is in danger. It starts to come at you and you shoot it dead. Can the owner sue you? Can you be charged with discharging a firearm? Etc?
A snarling dog is in front of you and you fear that yourself (or your little daughter) is n danger. You shoot it dead... same questions apply?
I can imagine the legalities of shooting a person that is just threatening you...but I don't think the same applies to a dog, bear, mountain lion, sheep, etc.
A snarling dog is in front of you and you fear that yourself (or your little daughter) is in danger. It starts to come at you and you shoot it dead. Can the owner sue you? Can you be charged with discharging a firearm? Etc?
A snarling dog is in front of you and you fear that yourself (or your little daughter) is n danger. You shoot it dead... same questions apply?
I can imagine the legalities of shooting a person that is just threatening you...but I don't think the same applies to a dog, bear, mountain lion, sheep, etc.
Andrew Rothman
Member
Good question. Minnesota has a specific law about putting down aggressive dogs.
(The law was written in 1939. "Hydrophobia" is another name for Rabies.)
Washington state provides for the killing of dogs that harass livestock, but I can't find anything about dogs that threaten humans.
Jay Kominek
Member
Presumably if you could shoot a person in a particular situation, you could shoot an animal.
There'd have to be some awfully crack-addled laws for that not to be the case.
In both of the situations you mention, it seems lethal force would be appropriate if it were a person. (A person who could run much faster than normal, and had claws and rather vicious teeth, anyways.)
You can't really know what the growling means, and by the time its "in front" of you, its so close it could be on your neck before you can draw.
But with a dog, you can draw a gun without escalating the situation, so you could reasonably draw much sooner.
No, but you should know whether they do or not without having to look. Everyone ought to be familiar with what sorts of numbers and services their local police departments offer. The only one you need to memorize is 911, though. If you don't have time to look up the others, then by definition, you need 911.
Cosmoline
Member
Given your prior dealings with the PD you did the right thing to use their 911 service. You're paying for it, after all. Just like you paid for the firearms they pointed at you during that earlier incident.
My one critique is that a pit bull or similar breed dog with its blood up can take an awful lot of lead. ANd the shooting is going to be in very close quarters so there's an increase chance of blowing your toes off. I've come to the conclusion that if you've got to defend yourself or another you should use a good, large felling axe and either beat it down from the front or sever it mid-spine if it's latched onto another. Brutal but highly effective.
Just make sure you have a good axe. Also, never run.
My one critique is that a pit bull or similar breed dog with its blood up can take an awful lot of lead. ANd the shooting is going to be in very close quarters so there's an increase chance of blowing your toes off. I've come to the conclusion that if you've got to defend yourself or another you should use a good, large felling axe and either beat it down from the front or sever it mid-spine if it's latched onto another. Brutal but highly effective.
Just make sure you have a good axe. Also, never run.
one45auto
Member
I'd have shot the dog dead as a doornail the second it made any threatening gestures towards my daughter. Where I live all dogs are required to be kept on a leash, thus a loose dog making aggressive movements is fair game as far as I'm concerned. The only other thing I would have done differently is to not make mention of the gun when calling the authorities because you never know how the 911 operator will relay the information, nor how well it will be received or heard by the squad cars. For instance should they hear "armed man" instead of "armed homeowner" they'll show up at your door with an entirely different mind set, not to mention an adrenaline rush, racing pulses, and unholstered weapons - a surefire recipe for potential trouble. (Particularly if they're breaking in a rookie or have a hot shot on their staff.)
I would have shot that dog in a heartbeat. Any dog that threatens my daughter is a dead one, particularly a pitbull.
1911 Tuner, you are right about which dogs bite kids the most often, but I am not worried about nips from a border collie, I am worried about a pitbull latching on and not letting go. I have seen it, and they do not respond to anything we tried short of a cudgel. Most pitbulls may be fine most of the time, but I have seen a few too many times when they have proven to be a real danger to trust them.
This is one case where i would shoot and let the chips fall where they may.
1911 Tuner, you are right about which dogs bite kids the most often, but I am not worried about nips from a border collie, I am worried about a pitbull latching on and not letting go. I have seen it, and they do not respond to anything we tried short of a cudgel. Most pitbulls may be fine most of the time, but I have seen a few too many times when they have proven to be a real danger to trust them.
This is one case where i would shoot and let the chips fall where they may.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Pitbulls
roscoe said:
but I am not worried about nips from a border collie, I am worried about a pitbull latching on and not letting go.
__________________________
Ah! American Staffordshire Terrier. They're one of the most fiercely loyal
and toughest of the breeds. They also have the worst rap...much of it
deserved, though not usually the dog's fault. It depends greatly on the
integrity of the breeder...and how the pup was handled during the first 6 weeks. My neighbor has one that he hand-raised from a whelp, and a
bigger baby you never saw.
Training Pits to be vicious seems to be the rage these days..and not
for fighting...but for protection. Problem is that the dogs sometimes get
confused as to who is a threat and who is just passing through...Pits'
biggest failing seems to be that they're suspicious of everybody, and
usually elect to shoot first and ask questions later.
When a Pit has been raised to be gentle, and turns on a member of its
own family, you can usually blame it on inbreeding...which is also commonplace with Pits and certain other breeds. Trends.
When they do attack, they're frighteningly efficient machines of destruction,
usually ripping muscle from crushed bone...but they can be knocked loose
with a kick in the ribs from a companion or bystander. Be prepared to fight
the dog off if you happen to be in that role, however. They are absolutely
fearless, almost impervious to pain, and will aquire another target in the
blink of an eye.
The breed that gets top honors for "bulldogging"...clamping down and
refusing to let go? The friendly and comical little English Bulldog. I watched
a family pet kill an attack-trained Doberman, and three of us tried to get
him to let go of the Dobie's throat...even failing to pry him loose with a
crowbar. The attack dog had climbed the fence and came at "Humphrey"
on his own yard, so there was no issue of killing the Bulldog to stop him.
He simply wagged his stump and clamped down tighter until the Doberman
collapsed. Rigor mortis had started to set in before he turned loose.
Rotts can be viewed as "Giant Pitbulls' because inbreeding and guard
training has influenced that noble breed's nature as well. Too many
people teach a Rott to be protective without understanding how to teach
the dog to stand down once the threat has been neutralized. Rotts will
usually finish what they start unless trained by somebody who knows what
they're doing. A well-trained Rott will go from a snarling destroyer to
a playful puppy and back again on signal.
The breed most prone to a lethal attack unprovoked? The Saint Bernard. Inbreeding again. I haven't trusted a Saint Bernard in over 25 years,
when unscrupulous breeders began to get greedy. A good breeder
is usually lucky to break even on his dogs. He does it for love of the breed.
Second place for this one goes to the Chow Chow. They tend to be a
"One Man Dog", often refusing to let even another member of the family
approach or feed him. The Chow's size makes him easier to fend off than
the Saint Bernard, but no less dangerous to any but a grown man.
The crown for the biggest sissy goes to the Great Dane. There was a time that a Dane was a hunter and killer of men...but that trait was bred out
of them over a hundred years ago. These dogs are clowns, and don't
understand why you can't let them sit on your lap.
Luck!
Tuner
roscoe said:
but I am not worried about nips from a border collie, I am worried about a pitbull latching on and not letting go.
__________________________
Ah! American Staffordshire Terrier. They're one of the most fiercely loyal
and toughest of the breeds. They also have the worst rap...much of it
deserved, though not usually the dog's fault. It depends greatly on the
integrity of the breeder...and how the pup was handled during the first 6 weeks. My neighbor has one that he hand-raised from a whelp, and a
bigger baby you never saw.
Training Pits to be vicious seems to be the rage these days..and not
for fighting...but for protection. Problem is that the dogs sometimes get
confused as to who is a threat and who is just passing through...Pits'
biggest failing seems to be that they're suspicious of everybody, and
usually elect to shoot first and ask questions later.
When a Pit has been raised to be gentle, and turns on a member of its
own family, you can usually blame it on inbreeding...which is also commonplace with Pits and certain other breeds. Trends.
When they do attack, they're frighteningly efficient machines of destruction,
usually ripping muscle from crushed bone...but they can be knocked loose
with a kick in the ribs from a companion or bystander. Be prepared to fight
the dog off if you happen to be in that role, however. They are absolutely
fearless, almost impervious to pain, and will aquire another target in the
blink of an eye.
The breed that gets top honors for "bulldogging"...clamping down and
refusing to let go? The friendly and comical little English Bulldog. I watched
a family pet kill an attack-trained Doberman, and three of us tried to get
him to let go of the Dobie's throat...even failing to pry him loose with a
crowbar. The attack dog had climbed the fence and came at "Humphrey"
on his own yard, so there was no issue of killing the Bulldog to stop him.
He simply wagged his stump and clamped down tighter until the Doberman
collapsed. Rigor mortis had started to set in before he turned loose.
Rotts can be viewed as "Giant Pitbulls' because inbreeding and guard
training has influenced that noble breed's nature as well. Too many
people teach a Rott to be protective without understanding how to teach
the dog to stand down once the threat has been neutralized. Rotts will
usually finish what they start unless trained by somebody who knows what
they're doing. A well-trained Rott will go from a snarling destroyer to
a playful puppy and back again on signal.
The breed most prone to a lethal attack unprovoked? The Saint Bernard. Inbreeding again. I haven't trusted a Saint Bernard in over 25 years,
when unscrupulous breeders began to get greedy. A good breeder
is usually lucky to break even on his dogs. He does it for love of the breed.
Second place for this one goes to the Chow Chow. They tend to be a
"One Man Dog", often refusing to let even another member of the family
approach or feed him. The Chow's size makes him easier to fend off than
the Saint Bernard, but no less dangerous to any but a grown man.
The crown for the biggest sissy goes to the Great Dane. There was a time that a Dane was a hunter and killer of men...but that trait was bred out
of them over a hundred years ago. These dogs are clowns, and don't
understand why you can't let them sit on your lap.
Luck!
Tuner
Mr. Mysterious
Member
So... 1911Tuner, would you have shot the dog in this situation?
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Would I?
No.
I'd have had the little girl step behind me with the gun in one hand, extended to give the dog something to go for, given him a sharp NO command, and left it up to him. In the case of two dogs vying for position, backing away or moving to get something solid behind you is a good idea, since they will circle and try to approach from behind if possible. Pack
hunters will use one member to distract the quarry while the others
come in from behind or the flank.
Dogs sense danger the same way that they sense fear. If they instinctively
feel that they are in more danger from you than you are from them, they usually stand down.
Luck!
Tuner
No.
I'd have had the little girl step behind me with the gun in one hand, extended to give the dog something to go for, given him a sharp NO command, and left it up to him. In the case of two dogs vying for position, backing away or moving to get something solid behind you is a good idea, since they will circle and try to approach from behind if possible. Pack
hunters will use one member to distract the quarry while the others
come in from behind or the flank.
Dogs sense danger the same way that they sense fear. If they instinctively
feel that they are in more danger from you than you are from them, they usually stand down.
Luck!
Tuner
ksnecktieman
Member
I have many disagreements here,
First, My local pd administrative line is not answered after five pm.
Second, 911 is the one needed here, IF there was a call from a neighbor, it was to 911, and may have been something like this? "There is a man with a child under his arm screaming and holding a gun." Response to that call HAS to be avoided.
Third, Never, ever lower yourself to the dogs level, they will consider that a sign of submission ( it may defuse the situation, or it may trigger the attack). If you think you can hit better face on, then when you drop, commence firing.
Fourth,,, Your left arm was full of child, Your right hand was full of pistol. If the dog attacks you will not have time to fire before the first bite, your only response would have been to feed your gun holding arm to the dog. Your reflexes and speed will not stop a dog in serious attack mode because he moves faster than you can.
You did good, we can tell that by the fact you got in the house without shooting the dog. You had to decide if the dog was going to attack, and you made the right choice, this time. I do not think I would have been so forgiving. I was not there, but I think I would have fired. I am a dog lover, but I do not love aggressive or threatening dogs.
If you have the chance you should check with your local pd or sheriff K9 unit, and see if you can watch their training. Their speed is astonishing. Do not mistake the fake dogfights you see on TV with the real thing.
I have seen two dogs fighting, and my eyes would not even keep up with them, there is no way I could have shot one of them while both were on their feet.
First, My local pd administrative line is not answered after five pm.
Second, 911 is the one needed here, IF there was a call from a neighbor, it was to 911, and may have been something like this? "There is a man with a child under his arm screaming and holding a gun." Response to that call HAS to be avoided.
Third, Never, ever lower yourself to the dogs level, they will consider that a sign of submission ( it may defuse the situation, or it may trigger the attack). If you think you can hit better face on, then when you drop, commence firing.
Fourth,,, Your left arm was full of child, Your right hand was full of pistol. If the dog attacks you will not have time to fire before the first bite, your only response would have been to feed your gun holding arm to the dog. Your reflexes and speed will not stop a dog in serious attack mode because he moves faster than you can.
You did good, we can tell that by the fact you got in the house without shooting the dog. You had to decide if the dog was going to attack, and you made the right choice, this time. I do not think I would have been so forgiving. I was not there, but I think I would have fired. I am a dog lover, but I do not love aggressive or threatening dogs.
If you have the chance you should check with your local pd or sheriff K9 unit, and see if you can watch their training. Their speed is astonishing. Do not mistake the fake dogfights you see on TV with the real thing.
I have seen two dogs fighting, and my eyes would not even keep up with them, there is no way I could have shot one of them while both were on their feet.
Mikul
Member
You did just fine. Keep in mind that if you ever do need to shoot a dog, just keep shooting. Your first shot might kill them, but that doesn't seem to make them stop.
Instances like this are why I love pepper spray. While I might hesitate to shoot a dog or a person, I won't hesitate to spray. Hose 'em down and send the four legged enchillada home. That way, both the dog and the owner get the message.
If that dog shows up again, put it down. You called the police, they didn't take care of it and the darn thing showed up again to threaten your family. This isn't a game.
Instances like this are why I love pepper spray. While I might hesitate to shoot a dog or a person, I won't hesitate to spray. Hose 'em down and send the four legged enchillada home. That way, both the dog and the owner get the message.
If that dog shows up again, put it down. You called the police, they didn't take care of it and the darn thing showed up again to threaten your family. This isn't a game.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
German Shepherds
Howdy arinvolvo,
I haven't spent a lot of time with Shepherds, but a friend who bred them
about the time I was breeding Collies reports that their intelligence is
second only the Border Collie, and their loyalty is second to none. He
says that a better friend than a Shepherd would be a stretch, and that they're more like a human companion than a dog. He said that they could read his moods almost instantly, and react to them accordingly.
He got one of my Collie pups though... for his daughter, and says he's one of the best dogs he's ever had.
Howdy arinvolvo,
I haven't spent a lot of time with Shepherds, but a friend who bred them
about the time I was breeding Collies reports that their intelligence is
second only the Border Collie, and their loyalty is second to none. He
says that a better friend than a Shepherd would be a stretch, and that they're more like a human companion than a dog. He said that they could read his moods almost instantly, and react to them accordingly.
He got one of my Collie pups though... for his daughter, and says he's one of the best dogs he's ever had.
I think you handled the situation quite well.
I like dogs, but I am a bit skittish about overly aggressive ones. I was bit a couple times when I was young, and havn't been able to compleatly shake that pang of fear when a dog snarls and lunges toward me.
I'm sure aggressive dogs sens this, however it appears to me that most dogs won't attack if you don't turn you're back on them, but they'll rush in on you if you turn your back on them. We had a dog that kept getting lose from next door that was reasonably large, and was skittish. It barked and snarled at everyone, and would jump closer if you turned your back.
The dog kept comming up in our yard and barking at me while I was working in the yard. It was always dragging it's chain behind it which it's owners kept failing to properly secure. I'd yell at the dog and it would bark at me, but not go away. My wife which has no fear of dogs, and has never met a dog that she couldn't get along with would come out to see what was happening. She would just ignore the dog's barks and snarls adn tell it no and to go home. When that didn't work she'd just wald over and pick up the end of the chain and take the dog home and tie the chain to their front door. As soon as she'd start leading it by the chain it would quit barking and just follow along.
I suspect my other neighbor's solution was a bit more practical. He said he was going to call the police ever time he saw the dog loose. Apparently he did. The dog is gone now, not sure what happened to it.
I have a hard time with killing a dog when it's actions often have a lot to do with their owner's irresponsibility. Dogs of good breeding that were raised well don't seem to act that way.
I think I'm going to get pepper spray to deal with such situations. I just wish that if I'm forced to spray the dog, it would be legal to go spray the owner next.
I like dogs, but I am a bit skittish about overly aggressive ones. I was bit a couple times when I was young, and havn't been able to compleatly shake that pang of fear when a dog snarls and lunges toward me.
I'm sure aggressive dogs sens this, however it appears to me that most dogs won't attack if you don't turn you're back on them, but they'll rush in on you if you turn your back on them. We had a dog that kept getting lose from next door that was reasonably large, and was skittish. It barked and snarled at everyone, and would jump closer if you turned your back.
The dog kept comming up in our yard and barking at me while I was working in the yard. It was always dragging it's chain behind it which it's owners kept failing to properly secure. I'd yell at the dog and it would bark at me, but not go away. My wife which has no fear of dogs, and has never met a dog that she couldn't get along with would come out to see what was happening. She would just ignore the dog's barks and snarls adn tell it no and to go home. When that didn't work she'd just wald over and pick up the end of the chain and take the dog home and tie the chain to their front door. As soon as she'd start leading it by the chain it would quit barking and just follow along.
I suspect my other neighbor's solution was a bit more practical. He said he was going to call the police ever time he saw the dog loose. Apparently he did. The dog is gone now, not sure what happened to it.
I have a hard time with killing a dog when it's actions often have a lot to do with their owner's irresponsibility. Dogs of good breeding that were raised well don't seem to act that way.
I think I'm going to get pepper spray to deal with such situations. I just wish that if I'm forced to spray the dog, it would be legal to go spray the owner next.
im going to have to agree with that...hard to find a better dog than a shepard. It is amazing what they are capable of while never resorting to "viciousness". I have seen shepards take people down during training, but yet, it is never "scary". It is impressive what they can do, but they never seem out of control.
a mini shepard would be a good dog...you should work on that.
they DO seem to be human in their understanding and emotions....not a "true" dog personality. I need one...but alas...the sacrifices of condo life....so its cats for me...until i have a yard.
a mini shepard would be a good dog...you should work on that.
they DO seem to be human in their understanding and emotions....not a "true" dog personality. I need one...but alas...the sacrifices of condo life....so its cats for me...until i have a yard.
I'll admit that there are few things that cause me more fear than a large aggresive dog. I was a paper-boy as a teenager, and it seemed like every dog wanted a piece of me. I guess I can understand a little bit since I approached their property in early morning hours when it was dark.
I've actually outrun a german shepard chasing me at full sprint. I know, I shouldn't have run, but the beast came at me from behind, and before I knew what was after me I was at sprinting for all I was worth.
Scariest experience was with a trained attack dog. It was a rhodesian ridgeback(sp?). It went for my throat! . As it lunched, I managed to shove a newspaper into its mouth by luck. Fortunately there was another person nearby and the dog backed off from superior numbers. Naturally, since the owner trained police dogs for the local LEO's, they turned a blind eye and similar incidents happened to others (yes, including bitings).
Just recently I was with my little three-year-old boy talking with my neighbor, when a couple of very large strange dogs approached us. I picked up my boy and waited (scared to death) to see what would happen. The dogs were just curious and soon went on their way, but my heart was going a mile a minute. (Yes I know I need to carry, I'm pulling the money together to get a carry gun)
I have no sympathy for aggressive dogs that are loose. I know it is the owner that is really responsible. Let the owner pay to discard the carcas.
Having said all that. There have been dogs that found their way into my heart. One was a golden retriever, and the other was a golden retriever/collie mix. Wonderful family dogs.
I've actually outrun a german shepard chasing me at full sprint. I know, I shouldn't have run, but the beast came at me from behind, and before I knew what was after me I was at sprinting for all I was worth.
Scariest experience was with a trained attack dog. It was a rhodesian ridgeback(sp?). It went for my throat! .
As it lunched, I managed to shove a newspaper into its mouth by luck. Fortunately there was another person nearby and the dog backed off from superior numbers. Naturally, since the owner trained police dogs for the local LEO's, they turned a blind eye and similar incidents happened to others (yes, including bitings).Just recently I was with my little three-year-old boy talking with my neighbor, when a couple of very large strange dogs approached us. I picked up my boy and waited (scared to death) to see what would happen. The dogs were just curious and soon went on their way, but my heart was going a mile a minute. (Yes I know I need to carry, I'm pulling the money together to get a carry gun)
I have no sympathy for aggressive dogs that are loose. I know it is the owner that is really responsible. Let the owner pay to discard the carcas.
Having said all that. There have been dogs that found their way into my heart. One was a golden retriever, and the other was a golden retriever/collie mix. Wonderful family dogs.
Minute_Of_Torso
Member
Well, it's been two days since the "incident" and I've heard nary a word from the owner . . . or any of my neighbors. It took quite a while after the SWAT team entry to convince my neighbors that, "No, I'm not a drug dealer. Yes, they had the wrong address." I guess it will take some time to convince the neighbors that I'm not going to shoot them in the middle of the night . . . sheesh.
Anyway, the owner of the dog is one of the neighbors I've never talked to. My wife has asked them to turn down the music, stop revving up their engines at 11pm (you know those new little cars with the exhaust systems that sound like badly tuned Briggs & Stratton's), etc, etc. BUT, I haven't seen the dog in all this time either. Guess he took the officer's warning to heart. I'm a little more vigilant about my property now knowing that these kinds of things can result in childish retaliation. This used to be a nice neighborhood with quiet, older folks who took care of their properties. As those people die or move, their homes often become rentals. This particular owner's house seems to be a flop house for just about anybody . . . not implying anything but the two rentals adjacent to my home seem to have quite a few visits from the local police, local drug task force, and hazmat clean-up crews . . . hmmm.
As has been said I'm not upset with the dog at all. A dog is an amoral creature that acts on instinct and training. This dog was just doing what he thought he needed to be doing . . . the owner is responsible for his actions.
Anyway, the owner of the dog is one of the neighbors I've never talked to. My wife has asked them to turn down the music, stop revving up their engines at 11pm (you know those new little cars with the exhaust systems that sound like badly tuned Briggs & Stratton's), etc, etc. BUT, I haven't seen the dog in all this time either. Guess he took the officer's warning to heart. I'm a little more vigilant about my property now knowing that these kinds of things can result in childish retaliation. This used to be a nice neighborhood with quiet, older folks who took care of their properties. As those people die or move, their homes often become rentals. This particular owner's house seems to be a flop house for just about anybody . . . not implying anything but the two rentals adjacent to my home seem to have quite a few visits from the local police, local drug task force, and hazmat clean-up crews . . . hmmm.
As has been said I'm not upset with the dog at all. A dog is an amoral creature that acts on instinct and training. This dog was just doing what he thought he needed to be doing . . . the owner is responsible for his actions.
XLMiguel
Member
Thanks for the update, I was curious about why there had been no mention of the owner. I know the type from your description, they aren't likely to step up and behave responsibly, so it sounds like S/S/S is the proper response if there is a 'next time'.
FWIW, I think you did fine, but if push came to shove, killing a threatening dog on one's own front porch is pretty much a 'no brainer'. If idjit neighbor made a fuss, I'd follow up with a real serious chat said neighbor about 'responsibilites' and perhaps a quick civil suit.
FWIW, I think you did fine, but if push came to shove, killing a threatening dog on one's own front porch is pretty much a 'no brainer'. If idjit neighbor made a fuss, I'd follow up with a real serious chat said neighbor about 'responsibilites' and perhaps a quick civil suit.
fjolnirsson
Member
Like many other things, it all comes down to training.
Mine are very protective, and very vicious if someone isn't supposed to be there.
So far, the score around my place is:
Danes-2
Would be burgalars-0
Twice now, I've come home to evidence of a foiled burglary.
The first was a bloody man's glove near the gate.
The second was a busted gate with a bloody handprint on it. (busted during the escape.)
So, it depends. Also, our Beagle is the most aggressive dog I have ever seen. He has bitten numerous people, all of them bending down after being warned. Nobody believes us. "oh, what a cutie!"
"NOOO! HE BITES!!!"
"WHAT?(Laugh as they reach for the dog straining on the leash)Beagles
don't ...OW,OW!!!!
We keep him in the yard now. No more walks. People can't keep their D$$$ hands to themselves.
DMK
Member
First of all, I agree with you. I tried to find my local town PD number a while back. I wanted to put it in my cell phone, just in case. Their number is not listed. Everybody else has their numbers listed, County Sheriff, State Police, neighboring town and county LE. In the phone book next to town PD it says call 911.
I for one also agree with the 911 operator not acting professionally. their job is to calmly and unemotionally determine as best they can what's going on and dispatch the appropriate response. The officers on the scene can then evaluate and issue admonishment if necessary. If they couldn't stay cool in this semi-defused situation, how are they going to act calmly in a real bad and confusing scenario. Scary.
sm
member
My 6 year old neice was recently attacked , requiring 18 stitches on her arm.I had to find out from a 3rd party...not a family member...many days after the incident. Quite traumatic , and the dog is in quarantine for 2 wks , to see if rabid and the series of shots needs to be given.
I had to tell Mom about her granddaughter...that went over well...
You see I bought and paid for fees, license, training and the monies to allow her daddy to get his CCW. I even found him one hell of a deal on a firearm.
He took the class, yes his A/C went out and had that expense at home, but remember I had everything paid for. He just didn't "want to". So this taking "personal responsibility" and all that goes with it has ostrasized Me from the rest of the family. Except Mom.
So only once in a blue moon do I see the niece or other family for that matter. Neice wants to see me, "I'm pretty cool and neat"...but "this" Uncle "might" ...well hell who knows what "ideas" she might get in her head.
I was only given a few details 3rd party, when her daddy was asked about a firearm.( by 3rd party) ..the .357 was unloaded, locked up in a gun vault, locked in another metal safe...Mix of Cringe, guilt, don't want to talk about...
So Grandma is just going to "show up" since neice is recovering at home and one parent needs to be home with her for a few days still. Parents are taking turns...Grandma is "sure hoping" her daddy is home when she takes some fun food that only a Grandma and Grandaughter can share.
Oh I could go by ...instead I will send her a package that is special b/t her and I...that stuff she and I have 'established'.
Real damn tempted to get a youth model NEF in 20 ga... and have it "delivered" to and for my neice...if I'm gonna set the last "brick in the wall "....the "wall the family has chosen to "hide behind". and keeps me out...might as well really leave something to remember me by.
Give the neice some time...my money says she won't be like her parents, got some of that "rebel gene" this Uncle has...thank goodness.
Not to say the firearm would, or should have been used...the principle that ticks me off is " the tools of mindset, and option of such tools like a firearm" were not even in the toolbox.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
I could not agree more Steve ... seems tho like you are one great Uncle here ... and thank heaven for that. ''Better to have and not need .... etc''. A 20G would be nice!!! Hmmm.
18 stitches is hardly a small gravel burn .. by anyone's standards. How often I think about those ''guns in safes'' ... all so ''safely'' locked up .. unloaded ... for ''safety'' .... and yet not even one available ''at the ready''. makes a joke of it all.
But of course as the sage and ever knowledgeable anti's will tell ya .. a loaded gun?? .. hell, that's just waiting to ''go off''.
Mastrogiacomo
Member
Boy were you good...but I admit, I would have shot the bastard if it approached me or a child in that way. That's not a friendly hello from an animal -- and if your pooch comes on my property to threaten me -- I'll get rid of the threat one way or the other. Glad it turned out well for you.
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