For self-defense shooting, the revolver has been surpassed, EXCEPT...

[StrikeFire83]

FWIW, I had an LEO once tell me there are sometimes SD situations in which it's "better not to leave a trail of little-brass pieces of evidence" all over the ground... Something else to consider.

So wait, you say you were advised by a LEO that in a SD shooting you should leave the scene without reporting the fight, and a revolver is better because you don't have to pick up your brass?

Sounds like a pretty dumb LEO to me, if that's in fact what he said.

 

[Oro]

Sounds like a pretty dumb LEO to me, if that's in fact what he said.

Or a very smart and honest LEO, advising a citizen on how to minimize complications because the local prosecutor is an anti-gun zealot. Bottom line, you have no idea what the context was yet you jump to conclusions. You also had no call to insult wrs80's integrity by insinuating he either invented the exchange or misunderstood it. I do not find that an inherently improbably conversation; I've had it myself with trusted friends.

I’m not a troll and I’m not here to start a technology war.

Yes, you are. Check the definition of "internet troll." You were particularly individually insulting to him, and you are engaging in a technology war. Is this the best forum conversation you are capable of conducting? I get am offended when posters insult others without any good reason or basis. Keep in mind this is not "GlockTalk" or Ar15.com.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

In close quarters, where it got physical many semiautos were taken out of battery by the assailant pressing on the slide, causing the semiauto not to fire. This is niot a problem with the revolver.

In close quarters, where it got physical many revolvers were taken out of action by the assailant grabbing the cylinder, causing the revolver not to fire. This is niot a problem with the semiauto.

The lesson is, don't let an assailant grab your gun.

 

[StrikeFire83]

Okay, well, admittedly, I won't be in law school until September, but let me get this straight.

As responsible gun owners/human beings, we are obligated never to draw and fire on a person unless he or she is about to kill us, cause us bodily injury, or cause great bodily injury to a loved one/friend. There are the situations under which we can justify-ably use our concealed handgun out in public. When inside your own home/on your own property, depending on state and locality, these considerations ease somewhat, but not much.

So if you've just fired your weapon in self defense, a totally legal and justified act, it is reasonable to turn yourself into a criminal by fleeing the scene and/or trying to conceal evidence of your involvement? Sounds pretty stupid to me. Hundreds of people get away with homicide a year, but thousands more don't. Lots of people see and hear when gunshots ring out, and the police, however inept they can be, often find their way to the bottom of things, at least in some form.

Advocating carrying a revolver because it doesn't leave brass on the ground for when you flee the scene of a good shoot is pretty crappy advice, whether it came from an LEO or not. Yes, you may get a crusading liberal prosecutor who wants to hang you out to dry, and that's why you call the police, give a SINGLE short statement to the police "he was about to kill/maim me or my wife/daughter/son/friend, and I was in fear of my/their life, and I shot to stop the attack. I plan on cooperating fully, but I'd like to exercise my right to counsel at this time." And then SHUT THE **** up. Better to take the right, possibly harder road, then turn yourself into a criminal at the CHANCE things won't come to bite you in the butt.

Come on guys, somebody back me up on this.

 

[colorado_handgunner]

Or you might just be like me, can't shoot a revolver accurately to save my life. And since my life could one day depend on it, I'll stick to my autos.

 

[wrs840]

I think it falls under the category of "minimize your statement". I can assure you the guy I was talking to is no Barney Fife, and while I wouldn't plan to "leave the scene", I think I understand his point that, occasionally, "less is more". Like I originally said, it's just something to think about.

And, perhaps take to heart the notion of debating the idea without getting emotional against the person who expressed the idea. It works here, and I suspect probably often works well in a courtroom too.

Regards,
Les

 

[StrikeFire83]

wrs840, you're right, I should have confined my remarks to the advice, not the man, because I don't know and have never met him.

But I stand by my original statement that it was crappy advice.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

We are back to fire power over marksmanship.

Not always. A XD or the like has a better trigger than a wheelgun

 

[mljdeckard]

My Kimber didn't need a break in period.

I agree inasmuch as, I would rather carry a snubby than a Kel-tec or Ruger subcompact. But I would still probably get a subcompact Glock if I wanted a very small option.

 

[JMusic]

I saw a tuarrus revolver quit one time and I have seen primers back out or bullets go forward to jam a revolver, with that said I carry my 638 mostly. Had to send it back at first shot too far to the right. My PM9 is relieable more so than most from what I hear. My Kimber CDP works like a clock and so does my G17. Nothing is perfect but mine have not let me down.

Jim

 

[L-Frame]

All I know is what I've seen for myself. I take about 3 or 4 combat classes a year. I have done this for over 5 years. Usually, I'm the only revolver at the class. I can't remember a class where at least one auto didn't jam at some point, and a few have broken. I've never had my revolvers fail in any way. When the semi's would go down, sometimes the instructor would blame the ammo, sometime the gun, sometime the operator, but the fact was they didn't fire. At I'm not talking about junk autos here. I've seen Les Baers stop, Walters, Glocks, etc. I will say, though, that as you make the average shooter do more with the gun the greater the chance of operator error.

Just taking a semi-auto and firing it 500 times doesn't tell you as much as having a person go through all kinds of drills using barricades, close quarters drills. Then you see folks cause their own malfunctions by leaning the slide against a barricade, or in close quarters holding the gun too close to their bodies and short stroking the slide. Whose to say when it hits the fan even a trained person won't do something like that by mistake.

Anyway, I'm a KISS kind of guy and I'll take my wheelguns. Civilian self defense still involves few shots at short distances and I feel more comfortable knowing I have 6 for sure. I'll take my chances on not having enough ammo to do the job if attacked by a gang.

I'm not dissing semi-autos. They are very reliable. I just think the chance of a semi-auto malfunctioning (for any reason) is greater than the chance that I will not have enough ammo with my wheelguns to do the job.

 

[wrs840]

wrs840, you're right, I should have confined my remarks to the advice, not the man, because I don't know and have never met him.

But I stand by my original statement that it was crappy advice.

Fair enough. In order that I may weight proper credence to your original statement, how many years of employment do you have under your belt in Law Enforcement, Litigation, Jurisprudence, or Public Policy pundancy/creation?

Les

 

[StrikeFire83]

Fair enough. In order that I may weight proper credence to your original statement, how many years of employment do you have under your belt in Law Enforcement, Litigation, Jurisprudence, or Public Policy pundancy/creation?

Um, zero. I'm a 25 year old guy who will be entering law school in September. I've taken pre-law classes and a CHL class.

I'm more inclined to take the advice of my CHL instructor, Massad Ayoob, et all when it comes to what to do following a justified shooting. Leaving the scene of a shoot, a good shoot no less, is just beyond stupid. You leverage the slight chance that NOTHING will trace the back to the scene against the possibility of getting a prosecutor with an axe to grind. At the best you have to live with being a coward that slinks away from a deadly encounter and at the worst you turn yourself into a criminal in the eyes of the law.

So yes, advice that turns a justified innocent man into a criminal and casts dispersion on you should you get tracked down is...for lack of a better word...stupid.

Ask Harold Fish how making bad decisions similar to your LEO friend's advice made it easier for a prosecutor to turn his good shoot into a prison stay.

 

[wrs840]

Okie dokie... I won't cast further "dispersion"...

Les

 

[Hawk]

Or a very smart and honest LEO, advising a citizen on how to minimize complications because the local prosecutor is an anti-gun zealot. Bottom line, you have no idea what the context was yet you jump to conclusions. You also had no call to insult wrs80's integrity by insinuating he either invented the exchange or misunderstood it. I do not find that an inherently improbably conversation; I've had it myself with trusted friends.

It's hard to picture a scenario, even to include Josh Sugarman as DA, where the reported LEO advice shouldn't be called to task. There may be more tactful ways but sometimes tact obscures the point and the point is that the advice seems to be advocating behavior illegal in all 50 states.

The sort of advice that, had it come from the poster rather than 3rd person would get the thread shut down in a heartbeat.

I always wonder about how something will be taken when a noob non-enthusiast butterflies into the forum, reads one piece of advice and remembers it at the most inopportune time.

That's why I don't like "just pull the trigger again" posts (squibs and all that) that aren't qualified and why I was uncomfortable reading that a LEO counseled what appeared to be "sanitize and vacate the area". That's criminal without context and "runaway DA" fails to satisfy. A DGU when your assailant is the Cali Cartel and the police on the payroll, maybe that would work. But it's illegal in this country.

Fair enough. In order that I may weight proper credence to your original statement, how many years of employment do you have under your belt in Law Enforcement, Litigation, Jurisprudence, or Public Policy pundancy/creation?

Speaking only for myself, I would presume that no background whatsoever is needed to comment negatively on advice to conduct oneself as a gangster or double-ought spy on a mission.

 

[StrikeFire83]

Ugh, feels like I'm taking crazy pills. I need some Strats and Tactics guys to chime in here and back me up that is IS NOT a good idea to slink away from a justified shooting out in public, and to base your firearms choice primarily on what will leave the least physical evidence behind.

Anyhow, I'll continue to use my 638...A REVOLVER...for pocket carry in favor of my Kahr, A SEMI-AUTO, until or unless I'm convinced that my PM9 is totally reliable. And even then, I don't see myself getting rid of the revolver...38 special is such a commonly available caliber is seems foolhardy not to own one.

EDIT: Thanks Hawk.

 

[wrs840]

"sanitize and vacate the area"

No one advocated either "sanitize" nor "vacate". Back up and read carefully. You won't find it.

Respectfully,
Les

 

[StrikeFire83]

Methinks the thread is headed towards shut-down land, but I'm a big fan of not allowing people to backpeddle from what they've said.

FWIW, I had an LEO once tell me there are sometimes SD situations in which it's "better not to leave a trail of little-brass pieces of evidence" all over the ground... Something else to consider.

Les

If this isn't sanitize and leave that I don't know what is. If the revolver advantage of not spitting out brass while shooting is a real advantage, then a person would have to vacate the scene otherwise the police will just get the brass when they confiscate your gun anyways. "Advantage" neutralized.

I also remember advice back in the day that you should grind the serial numbers off of all your guns just in case you have to ditch them after a SD shooting. Seems to be in the same vein.

 

[wrs840]

"Leave a trail" in realtime can be bad strategy for words. Maybe hard-trail sometimes too. That's the only point. That you insist someone advocated other, such as "leaving the scene" which is total fabrication on your part, suggests to me you only want to win an argument you're emotionally invested in, actual facts don't matter to you. How did I get sucked into your fantasy?

Les

 

[StrikeFire83]

Put a fork in me, wrs840, cuz I'm done.

Now lets all go out to the range and shoot some guns.

 

[MCgunner]

I like guns. Autos are a bit more convenient to carry IMHO, especially the reloads, and autos make more sense to me for concealed carry, but that don't mean I don't have a revolver in my pocket as I type this. One thing about revolvers, I don't have to hunt for the brass when I fire up a cylinder full. The down side to that is there's .45, .40, and 9x19 all over the place at the range for the taking, but never any .38 or .357 or .45 Colt. Bummer. LOL

 

[Blue Brick]

Isn’t it interesting that the young and inexperienced always have the strongest opinions, yet really have no real knowledge on the subject to back up their opinion.

 

[mljdeckard]

I responded only to the OP's original post, and it got put in between all of the discussion about sanitization, but two things;

1: On THR, we follow the law, period.

2: Moving your brass after a shooting is evidence tampering. If you are ever in a position where your lawyer is trying to convince the DA to not file charges against you in a legitimate defensive shooting, committing a crime to cover up the circumstances of that shooting is a BAD idea. Even if you would have walked away from the homicide charge, you are now looking at a charge of evidence tampering, obstruction of justice, or both, depending on how your state's laws are written. BAD IDEA.

 

[StrikeFire83]

Blue Brick, I've also found that assuming age automatically = experience and intelligence to be a fallacy.

But I defer to the old guys a lot of the time. My dad and grandpa are a helluva lot smarter and more knowledgeable then me concerning most things.

mljdeckard, thanks as well. Despite being younger I guess some others agree with me regarding legality and the stupidity of tampering with and or leaving the scene of a justified shooting.

 

[wrs840]

Who's advocating moving brass? It's in my revolver, like my unspoken words are in my head and also not on the docket. Why is this single subtlety so difficult to comprehend?

les