Friends accusing me of using ammo without permission

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PILMAN

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I've got somewhat of a problem here, last night I got a call from my friends and they sounded pretty angry saying I owed them ammo that I didn't fire. I am going to replace the names to keep everything anonymous

Basically about 4 months ago, my friends took me shooting for the first time. I was required to bring my own ammo, so I bought .45 acp winchester white box (100 rounds), remington magnum buckshot, .223 winchester rounds and that was it.

The first day, the guy with the guns was teaching me how to use a .45 acp handgun which I provided my own ammo. That went smooth, he also taught me how to use a shotgun which I used some of his rounds, and his M4 which I used my own rounds. That day went smoothly

The 2nd day, we went out to my friends field which is about 500 acres of land. I used an SKS which I did not have my own ammo for, a sig which used .45, and a winchester defender shotgun which I used my own rounds. There were a total of about 6 of us. Several times there was a fella with us with a moustache who appeared drunk and the guy with the guns was teaching him to use the sights and keep his finger off the trigger. I was constantly missing .45 ACP rounds and some left over .223 rounds . I didn't say anything about this. I asked about using the SKS which the guy with the guns helped me load it as I had never used a stripper clip. I constantly asked permission each time I used the gun when I was going to reload it. I asked which ammo I should use and he told me not to use the ammo to the right as it was a special round. After about the 2nd time, there was no ammo left and I asked if there was any more ammo. This fella who appeared drunk gave me some ammo and it was wolf ammo. I loaded up the gun but did not fire it, and the guy with guns said "Your cleaning it" to me because he was angry that I loaded wolf ammo up. I told him I didn't fire it and had no idea it was wolf.

From there, I just shot the shotgun a bit, and the 2 other friends of mine were firing a beretta 9mm and the other friend asked to use the shotgun from me. I held the beretta and asked if I could shoot it, they told me there was no ammo for it and if I had my own ammo I could shoot it, so I just held it while my other friend was using the .45 acp handgun which was my ammo.

After the days rapped up, the guy with guns is losing a magazine of what he called "Special Ammunition" and thought maybe one of us stole it. Needless to say he was pretty angry over it. When we got back to his house, he found the magazine in his bag and it was some hydrashok rounds.

Well come 4 months later, last night I get a call from one of my friends saying "yeah (guy with guns) needs you to pay back his ammo. He needs 9mm, .40, .45, .223, and 7.62 armor peircing). The thing is I never shot a .40 handgun (nor did I know he had one), I provided my own .45, I provided my own .223, though I did owe him shotgun shells and 7.62 ammo. I said "What do you mean armor peircing?" and he kept telling me over the phone the guy with guns was pissed off and wants me to repay his armor peircing rounds which are difficult to find and expensive. I asked what brand and I think he mentioned eclipse or something. I looked at the shell casings I collected from the field and it said PMC. I specifically asked him what ammo to use and I believe this special ammo he had, had some sort of blue tip on it.

I called my friend this morning and he told me that I was the only one who used the SKS (which is a lie, he used the SKS himself) and said I used some hollowpoint armor peircing 7.62 rounds. So I'm supposed to talk to "the guy with guns" tonite and find out whats going on. Of course I will pay him back the shotgun shells I shot and the 7.62 ammo, but I am pretty sure I did NOT shoot armor peircing rounds. The fact they claimed I shot .40 and 9mm means they already made a mistake. I mentioned that it was possible that the drunken fella who gave me the wolf ammo and took my ammo may have taken the AP rounds. Needless to say, all my friends are pointing the fingers at me and it's awkward after 4 months that just now they are bringing it up.

Any suggestions what I should do?
 
Any suggestions what I should do?
Find a new set of friends.

My friends and I occasionally shoot each others ammo when we take guns of the same caliber, or when we shoot others guns of calibers we don't own (one likes 1911s, I like Glocks, another likes .44 Magnum wheel guns). We handle it like we do when we go out to eat, we take turns footing the outings bill.
 
Hollow point armor piercing:confused: Sounds kinda fishy. I think your being made the scape goat for the missing ammo. Find some new friends:cool:
 
With friends like those, you would be better off without friends.

Tell them you will pay for what YOU remember shooting, and no more; if they don't like it, then they can find another sucker to swindle.

Get some different friends to go shooting with; you should avoid being around anyone that lets a drunk handle, much less shoot, loaded firearms.
 
These are not friends, these are business associates. Pay them what you believe is due, in cash, not ammo, and bid them adieu. Go to a nice range, and find differant buddies.
 
I don't know, they are military.

The guy who was drunk they are claiming wasn't drunk and that he is a redneck but he was very unsafe with the guns. He didn't know how to use the sights, finger was constantly on the trigger, he was taking ammo from people, slurring his words, and claiming he was a former ranger.

But like I said I am supposed to talk to the guy tonite who is missing the ammo.

My friend who called me (he's airforce) was claiming they were some special ammo that you can't buy anymore and they were hollowpoint armor peircing rounds. I have never heard of such a thing? I thought it could only be one or the other.
 
Just pay back what you shot

Just pay back what you shot or in your good concise that you think is fair. When I ask someone to shoot with me, I provide the weapons and ammo since they are my guest.
When you see your friends and hand them the ammo that you think is fair. Tell them the truth about their other request for more ammo is without merit. If that does not settle or appease them. Have them prove it and drop these so called friends. I've shot with alot of people over the years and never came across a situation like this. I think they are trying to sucker you into paying for something that did not exist and they know it.
There are good people on this site that I have received alot of good advice from. I'm sure one or two live near you and would be happy enough being "High Roaders" to help you out.
P.S. From my military experience all our armor piercing rounds are silver/metalic tipped. Civilians sell these projectiles, but you must load them yourselves. I may be wrong, if so I' sure someone will point that out.
Also, don't shoot with intoxicated people.
Good luck!!!!
 
When I invite friends over to instruct them to shoot, I let them use my ammo, because I am introducing them to the sport and culture of firearms. My observation is that this little kindness may win them over to the gun friendly position of things. If they bring their own gun, then they can use their own ammo, but when shooting my guns, I have no problem letting them use my ammo. Just my own policy, each to his own.

Get new friends, it's easy to point fingers at the new guy.
 
4 months later? I would tell him politely to stick it. Myself, I wouldnt even bother calling him. Armor piercing hollow points says it all about this guy. A drunk guy in the bunch says it all about the group. You will find a lot of good folks in the gun comunity but you will find a big bunch of mall ninjas and arse's in our set as well..... This guy sounds like a blend of both.
 
Most armor piercing rounds have a black tip. There are some, like armor piercing incendiary or armor piercing incendiary tracers that have a black and yellow or black and something else tip. Armor piercing hollow point is just pointless.....as hollowpoints are designed to expand and they can't do that with a tungsten/steel/other metal core.

Just because they're in the military doesn't mean they know much.....I know a couple of people that were in the military during the big Kosovo thing years ago, and I'm constantly having to explain stuff to him when he tries talking guns with me.
 
Well that explains the HP AP story. Your friend is in the Air Force.

But seriously, settle the matter in a way that is equitable to all involved, and get new friends. Preferrably Sailors or Marines
 
Respectfully, Pilman, this set of friends seem like idiots to me. Better to lose them now for a little cash than later for a real issue. I speak from experience.

Anytime you're in Illinois, we've got room for you. Good luck with this.
 
Yeah I haven't talked to the guy yet who owns the guns, before we left he just said he needed more 9mm rounds and .40 . My guess is he figured he didn't know me, and figured his friends wouldn't "do that."

I said to his friends if he can prove I shot AP rounds then I would be glad to buy them if he gives me the specific brand name.

The bullets looked like normal AK47 rounds or SKS rounds to me. They had a brass bullet and were the same ones he loaded for me on the stripper clip.
 
Right...

Hey, didn't you shoot out the barrel on my M1A last year? When are you going to replace it? Oh, and let's not even talk about my gold-plated Corvette you ran into the ground 10 years ago. :rolleyes:

You need new friends...real friends! When I invite my friends to shoot, I...I provide the ammo...not them. If they have a fire arm, fine, if not I do so. These agreements are best made before, and settled up immediately after if there is a debt. But 4 months after the fact...I smell something, and I'm not sitting in it.

If you do owe it...pay it. If you do not owe it, do not pay it and get new friends.

Doc2005
 
My first piece of advice is to find new shooting buddies. If they allow someone who is drunk to shoot that is begging for a tragic accident. Stay away.

I have never shot with a group that counted rounds. Everyone got to shoot every gun and everyone either brought or chipped in for ammo. Some shot some guns more than once as everyone has favorites. Newbies shoot for free as we are trying to attract them to the sport.

And waiting 4 weeks to address a grievence is ridiclous. Everyone is pulling from a well faded memory and no one can be sure who shot how much with what. Pay him what you think is correct and don't go shooting with him again. Sounds like he is trying to soak you.
 
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My first piece of advice is to find new shooting buddies. If they allow someone who is drunk to shoot that is begging for a tragic accident. Stay away.

I have never shot with a group that counted rounds. Everyone got to shoot every gun and everyone either brought or chipped in for ammo. Some shot some guns more than once as everyone has favorites. Newbies shoot for free as we are trying to attract them to the sport.

And waiting 4 weeks to address a grievence is ridiclous. Everyone is pulling from a well faded memory and no one can be sure who shot how much with what. If it's not to expensive pay him what he wants to get him off your back and don't go shooting with him again.

I'll definitely pay him back for ammo I used, that's the right thing.

I owe him 7.62 ammo (PMC) which I know for a fact I shot, and I owe him shotgun shells I used.

They are expecting me to pay back armor peircing rounds, and unless they can prove it, then I refuse to pay for them.

I'm just aggravated because 2 of the guys are good friends of mine, the one who owns the guns is a friend of one of my friends and he doesn't really know me. He's met me twice now and that's it.

But like someone mentioned, it's odd that they are just now calling me about the armor peircing rounds unless the guy with guns was looking through his ammo and realized it was missing. I called the 2 guys and asked if they remember that I was having trouble loading the ammo, and they both said "I don't remember all the details" yet somehow they can recall I shot a 9mm, a .40 S&W, and armor peircing rounds??


Also the guy I mentioned being drunk

They are claiming he wasn't drunk, he's somewhat of a redneck and they are claiming that's just the way he is yet he had a lot of difficulty talking, he was slurring, having difficulty shooting the gun and generally wasn't being very safe with it having the finger on the trigger. Also taking ammo without asking including mine so somethings suspicious about that or maybe he was legitimately just not that smart?
 
If you're an honest man and your story rings true, pay him what you know you owe him, NOT what he wants (which I suspect is a much higher sum). Appeasement is not the way to deal with bullies.

Then, as others have suggested, find some new friends. Real friends wouldn't behave like this and gang up on you, they'd deal with it in a more mature and honest way.
 
It's been said already here but it bares repeating, Pay for what you remember shooting and that's it. Personally, I'd tell them all to take a flying leap (4months and YOU are the one that shot all the ammo...Give me a BREAK!). I wouldn't entertain this group of idiots. Don't fall for the village idiots plot
 
Personally, if I bring ammo to the range with a bunch of guys, I expect it to get shot. I might not shoot it all, which is great, but I don't bring more than I'm willing to let go of. If it's just me and one other guy, I'll sometimes just grab a bunch, because I know it's not all going to get shot up, and I can easily keep track of it. But like I said, if it's a big group shoot-it-up session, I don't expect to bring anything back, so I don't bring "special" ammo that I don't want to lose.

So you shot some ammo that wasn't yours. Was it implied that you would have to pay for it? Was there some sort of agreement that you would pay for it? If there was, you should have paid him a while ago, and he should have asked for it a while ago. If not, he has no business asking for it now. If the two of you went out shooting again, you should probably return the favor by chipping in some extra ammo, but that's about all I would think is reasonable.

I'd sit down and have a good talk with him, explaining everything, including the ammo that you're intending to replace and the ammo that you don't intend to replace because you didn't shoot it. Talking it out should work, if he's a reasonable person. If he's not, he's that's a pretty good reason to find some new friends.
 
Also the guy I mentioned being drunk

They are claiming he wasn't drunk, he's somewhat of a redneck and they are claiming that's just the way he is yet he had a lot of difficulty talking, he was slurring, having difficulty shooting the gun and generally wasn't being very safe with it having the finger on the trigger.

Unless they can come up with a better explanation than "he's a redneck" and he starts acting responsibly than I would assume he is what he appears to be, drunk. If he has an accident it could cost someone their life. If they are willing to shoot with him and risk theirs fine but you have to decide for yourself.

Sounds like if he got pulled over for a taillight out he would have a heck of a time with a roadside drunk test. If I were in your place and I thought he would flunk a drunk test and get arrested for driving that's plenty for me to stay away.
 
Find new friends

When I invite anyone to shoot I provide ammo and weapons Guns/Rifles/Shotguns. I don't expect anything but their company in return. If there is EVER an issue we settle it that day and it's done with.

Pay the jerk what you think you owe him and move on. These guys are not your friends.
 
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