Garand trigger not resetting in cold weather

[D.B. Cooper]

My M1 rifle is intermittently having a problem of the trigger not resetting. The gun is cycling, extracting, ejecting, and loading ammo fine, but the trigger doesn't reset. So when I take my second shot, it's like having an empty gun that has already been dry fired. If I manually cycle the bolt, the trigger will reset, but the next shot it won't. Bolt locks all the way rearward after the eighth round and ejects the clip just fine.

I've been running it dry it winter because of this problem. Today (it was only 25 degrees, so not even that cold), I put some CLP in the op-rod track and on the inside where the other locking lug slides back and forth. That got it to where I could fire a second shot with no problem, but n the third, the trigger wouldn't reset.

I put all new springs in it last year (Wolf spring kit) so I doubt that is an issue. It seems to only happen in winter, but, honestly, I mostly shoot it singe loaded for NRA mid range prone matches in the summer.

As I see it, I have one of two problems: the bolt isn't going back far enough when fired (short stroking) or the hammer hooks aren't engaging the sear.

Is it possible for a Garand to short stroke to the point of not pushing the hammer all the way back, but still eject and load ammo? I would think if it was short stroking, I would also have feed issues. The fact that it locks rearward and ejects the clip on the last round tells me the bolt and op road are traveling fully to the rear. I field stripped it last year and cleaned the gas port and tube thoroughly and then measured the inside tube diameter. I forget the numbers but it was within spec. Is there something else in the gas system that can cause this?

I cleaned the trigger housing group thoroughly last year. Other than some oil on some pivoting parts (trigger pine, which I also replaced, and the trigger itself and where the hammer pivots) there is no grease or lubricant int here, especially on the hooks themselves. Is there something else in the trigger housing group that can cause this?

Pretty annoying problem.

PS ammo is PPU M2 Ball spec.

 

[Ru4real]

Binding with the stock and / or mounting screws.

I’ve had a rifle that I had to relieve part of the stock to allow thermal expansion and contraction movement. One trick is to adjust the tightness/looseness of your mounting screws to help narrow down the binding issue.

 

[wiscoaster]

Ditto above. Given everything else you've already done, that seems to be the logical next troubleshooting step. Good luck and let us know.

 

[cfullgraf]

There may be some tidbits here at the CMP forum that may help.

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=82243

 

[FL-NC]

If I had to guess, I would say that there is an issue in the sear and/or hammer. I have never heard of a Garand being "temperature sensitive". After all, they were used at The Bulge and the Chosin Reservoir, and countless other situations that were colder than 20 degrees. If this were a problem, I feel history would have recorded it.

 

[lysanderxiii]

1. If the bolt locks back and ejects the clip reliably, the hammer is being pushed all the way down.

2. When you manually cyclic the action, does the hammer stay cocked? If so, then the stock fitment is adequate.

3. Is it possible that the hammer spring housing is not installed correctly, or the little nubs on the sear are worn so it no longer has any tension.

4. There is also the possibility that someone did a bad trigger job and the the sear engagement inadequate.

 

[Garandimal]

Dismount the Trigger Group and visually inspect it, as you manually operate it through its cycle.

Maybe do a "Tilt" test as well... just because.

​

GR

 

[Charlie98]

The Garand hammer is cocked within the first 1/3rd of rearward bolt travel... it happens before the spent case is ejected, so if you are getting proper cycle, the hammer is cocked.

Like FL suggests, I think it's something with the trigger group itself... not necessarily the op rod, stock fitment, and other things. If you are able to, fire the rifle... and before firing it again, assuming successful cycling, check to see if the hammer is cocked by trying to release the trigger group (unlocking the trigger guard.) If the hammer isn't cocked, it won't release (and don't force it, or you will bend things.) That points to problems with the trigger group.

Binding with the stock and / or mounting screws.

The Garand does not have mounting screws... the action slides into the stock and is held in place by inserting and locking down the trigger group. This actually provides the proper tension for the rifle to operate properly, the M1a/M14 is the same. But you bring up a good point... there needs to be some amount of tension for the rifle to operate properly.

 

[someguy2800]

Can you clarify something? Is the trigger not traveling back forward to release the trigger from the reset hook, or is the hammer not catching and following the bolt? That would be the first thing to determine to start diagnosing the problem.

 

[murf]

try someone else's trigger group in your rifle.

luck,

murf

 

[entropy]

It sounds like the disconnector is holding the hammer, instead of releasing it to the sear as it's supposed to, intermittently. Inspect the disconnector and hammer engagement surfaces, and consider re-installing the original disconnector spring, (or an OE type instead of the Wolff) Hitting it with Gun Scrubber and relubing properly might be all that it needs.

 

[edwardware]

Is it possible for a Garand to short stroke to the point of not pushing the hammer all the way back, but still eject and load ammo?.

No. The bolt heel fully cocks the trigger well before the brass clears the breech. . . but you should go prove it to yourself rather than take my word for it.

To solve this, you need to observe the position of the hammer at the time, before manipulating the bolt. Turns out you can see into the receiver with a flashlight. Bring one and look next time you're out.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to debugging problems like this -- I spent weeks working through a similar problem with a P08 Luger trigger reset.

Here's what this fool would try:

1) Buy an entire spare trigger assembly from someplace like Dupage Trading:
https://www.dupagetrading.com/product/m1-rifle-trigger-housing-assembly/

2) Install and see if the problem persists

If yes, the problem lies elsewhere

If no, disassemble both and carefully compare parts. If a visual inspection and comparison of each part doesn't
reveal any obvious differences, swap parts one at a time until the problem reappears. Replace the now-identified
problem part(s) and either sell the extra trigger assembly or keep it as a spare. Personally I like having spares.

 

[Garandimal]

Think this is a Jim-dandy reason to buy a CMP Service Grade M1 Rifle.

What do you think, DB...?

(but then, it's Thursday... which is also a Jim-dandy reason to buy a CMP Service Grade M1 Rifle)






GR

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Think this is a Jim-dandy reason to buy a CMP Service Grade M1 Rifle.

What do you think, DB...?

(but then, it's Thursday... which is also a Jim-dandy reason to buy a CMP Service Grade M1 Rifle)






GR

It is a CMP Service Grade M1 Rifle.

Actually, as you were, it's a DCM Service Grade M1 Rifle, that's how long I've had it.

And on that note, I would like to add, just for the sake of bragging rights, the 1956 Springfield Armory barrel still holds a 1-1.5 moa group at 100 yrds from a bench rest. You'd think I'd be ranked higher.

 

[Garandimal]

It is a CMP Service Grade M1 Rifle.

Actually, as you were, it's a DCM Service Grade M1 Rifle, that's how long I've had it.

And on that note, I would like to add, just for the sake of bragging rights, the 1956 Springfield Armory barrel still holds a 1-1.5 moa group at 100 yrds from a bench rest. You'd think I'd be ranked higher.

In that case...

Shoot an email to the CMP/CS with your vitals and the problem - and they will forward it to the armory.

...and an armorer will get back to you.




GR

 

[D.B. Cooper]

If I had to guess, I would say that there is an issue in the sear and/or hammer. I have never heard of a Garand being "temperature sensitive". After all, they were used at The Bulge and the Chosin Reservoir, and countless other situations that were colder than 20 degrees. If this were a problem, I feel history would have recorded it.

Same here. My dad carried one stationed in AK in 1947 and my uncle carried one in Korea. Both men swear by that rifle.

Still, it really feels like this only happens when it's cold.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

1. If the bolt locks back and ejects the clip reliably, the hammer is being pushed all the way down.

2. When you manually cyclic the action, does the hammer stay cocked? If so, then the stock fitment is adequate.

3. Is it possible that the hammer spring housing is not installed correctly, or the little nubs on the sear are worn so it no longer has any tension.

4. There is also the possibility that someone did a bad trigger job and the the sear engagement inadequate.

Yep. And not only that, I noticed today that, if I pull the op-rod back only half way (not enough to let a snap cap even clear out of the breech) it cocks and will fire once I let the bolt close again. So. The hammer is cocking and the trigger is resetting when I manually pull the bolt halfway to the rear. It did this 8-10 times in a row.

No chance of a bad trigger job. I've owned that gun since 1994. The only trigger work was the recent hammer spring replacement last year. Still, everything points to something in the trigger housing group.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Can you clarify something? Is the trigger not traveling back forward to release the trigger from the reset hook, or is the hammer not catching and following the bolt? That would be the first thing to determine to start diagnosing the problem.

That's a good question. That I can't answer.

 

[hps1]

My M1 rifle is intermittently having a problem of the trigger not resetting. The gun is cycling, extracting, ejecting, and loading ammo fine, but the trigger doesn't reset. So when I take my second shot, it's like having an empty gun that has already been dry fired. If I manually cycle the bolt, the trigger will reset, but the next shot it won't. Bolt locks all the way rearward after the eighth round and ejects the clip just fine.

Sounds like the hammer is following bolt down. Look at your hammer hooks to be sure they have not been shortened....a common mistake I've seen made by someone trying to lighten the trigger.

Then, with the hammer cocked, see if the disconnect has firm spring tension pushing it forward against back of trigger spur (supplied by the hammer spring pushing hammer spring housing against the "legs" of disconnect). If disconnect is not free to move back and forth (under spring tension) look at hammer spring, spring housing and legs of disconnect). This could cause disconnect to miss the rear hammer hooks.


As the bolt retracts, it cocks the hammer (while trigger is still depressed) and the disconnect catches the rear hooks of the hammer to prevent "follow down". The bolt closes as trigger is released by shooter and the hammer begins following bolt, but the sear catches front hook, stopping the forward travel of the hammer.

<<Garand trigger and hammer
Disconnect catches rear hammer hook ^^ vv
When trigger is released, hammer tries to follow bolt down but is captured by the trigger sear vv
At least that's the plan.
If hammer hooks look OK (angle not changed and hooks not shortened) I would weigh the trigger and be sure it is not too light (should hold 4.5#). If too light, dragging a piece of emery cloth, cutting side toward back of trigger as shown below, while applying a bit of forward pressure on the disconnect will increase weight of trigger......careful....one or two passes is usually enough!


Regards,
hps

 

[hps1]

The only trigger work was the recent hammer spring replacement last year.

Hammer spring doubles as trigger spring. Can you see the hammer spring through slot in side of HS housing? If so, the housing is upside down and that can cause problems with the disconnect. Also a weak hammer spring could cause problems w/disconnect.

Another thing that could cause problem is a bent or worn trigger pin binding the disconnect.

Regards,
hps

 

[lysanderxiii]

good information

Technically, the part you refer to as the "disconnect" is the Sear, P/N 5546024, the part you refer to as the "sear" is the Trigger, P/N 5546020, and specific area is the hammer engagement surface.

The Trigger, P/N 5546020, Sear, P/N 5546024 and Sear Pin, P/N 5013673 make up the Trigger Assembly, P/N 5546026.

 

[JJFitch]

Great thread with loads of good info!

All too often the last thing we "fixed" leads to the next problem.

The problem started after the springs were changed! (Possibly short stroking) I'd retrace my steps and maybe even put the old springs back in.

Where are you located? I have a spare T/G you could try!

Smiles,

 

[murf]

you might want to make sure the safety lever is not bent. that part bends before it breaks and may cause this kind of problem.

murf

 

[hps1]

Technically, the part you refer to as the "disconnect" is the Sear, P/N 5546024, the part you refer to as the "sear" is the Trigger, P/N 5546020, and specific area is the hammer engagement surface.

The Trigger, P/N 5546020, Sear, P/N 5546024 and Sear Pin, P/N 5013673 make up the Trigger Assembly, P/N 5546026.

Who said you can't teach an old dog new tricks? This 84 year old "pup" just learned something about the rifle I have had a life long love affair with since I was issued my first 66 years ago. You are absolutely correct, @lysanderxiii, thanks for clarifying nomenclature for me (But I don't plan to go back and correct the photos I spent a couple of hours editing, though). Function described in my post is correct, however, "only the names have been changed to protect the innocent", as Joe Friday used to say.

An excellent animation of trigger function of the Garand starts @ 4:15 in US TF9-1172 here: complete with the correct nomenclature.

Guess I should have researched the given names of the parts in the TMs instead of bestowing upon them my own name for the part which they play in the rifle.

In a firearm, the sear is the part of the trigger mechanism that holds the hammer, striker, or bolt back until the correct amount of pressure has been applied to the trigger, at which point the hammer, striker, or bolt is released to discharge the weapon.

Couldn't find a concise definition of "disconnect", but did find a great animation of the AR-15 trigger w/names of various parts:


Again, sorry for any confusion my indiscretion w/part names might have caused.

Regards,
hps