Gas Stations

[sm]

-Don't go where trouble is
-Leave if trouble shows up
-Have Mindset and Skill sets, to use whatever "Tool Sets" one has, to deal with trouble.

One of the most vulnerable times for anyone, is when they purchase fuel at the gas station.

If ya ain't at a fillin' station, then the criminals can't get you there Young'un-Mentor.

I know.
I know all to damn well, what all can and DOES happen at gas stations. As one whom was raised into, and spent decades in hi-risk work...trust me.

Also, many members of THR, including Staff, and those firearm and other personal defense trainers, know how gas stations are often used by criminals.

Personally, I traveled. Me and Mine took Prudent steps, to stay safe. This included, but was not limited to, using vehicles with license plates of the states we were traveling.
For instance, let us say I left West Virginia, and as I traveled South to say Houston, I changed vehicles.

Now, it was "normal" to see vehicles with Kentucky and Tennessee near the KY/TN border. Less so to see Kentucky Plates in Oklahoma, or Texas, and for darn sure, less so in Florida, especially Key West.
When in Louisiana , again, normal to see Texas plates, especially during horse racing season in Shreveport,LA.

Where did you buy gas Steve?

Pay attention.

1. Rural areas mostly, where me and mine (network) had vehicles and/or fuel on site.
Meaning, I would change vehicles with a full tank, and/or different state plates - or - simply fill up my tank from fuel tanks, or even gas cans on site, at these locations.

2. Urban areas too, anything from small towns where gas cans filled my tank, to say "old money" areas, to highly populated areas, to you-name-it, where again, I changed vehicles, and /or fuel on site.

I implemented this [read: raised hell] with some other persons, private individuals and those in other industries who traveled. Though I and mine were "private" and kept matters "confidential", the reality is, when one travels, one does meet others and a sort of "bond" among traveling persons, comes to be. You get used to seeing folks out and about.

Individuals too.

i.e. Rhodes College in Memphis, Tennessee.

Tom Givens is THE person to speak with in Memphis. He and his excellent staff at Rangemaster, are a TOP Priority if one is going to spend time, or move to, or do anything in and around Memphis

It is shared, Tom has had more students involved in gunfights, than any other instructor.

So, many, many years ago I had folks contact me, in regard to their daughter, going to Rhodes College.
First thing I said, was for daughter, to contact Rangemaster, and get information on not only Memphis, also firearms, training, and all that goes with it.

Second, was "do not buy gas at the gas stations". The reason being, this young lady was going to be working late hours, and Memphis is NO place for a good looking young lady to be buying gas in the late or wee hours.
Hence the reason, it was set up she lived where she did, and had gas on site, where she did not have to purchase gas, at odd hours.


Some models of criminals, are far from stupid. Keep in mind, these criminals have 24/7/52 to practice their "trade craft". They have more hours of training than many of us do, and continue with "ongoing education" and "teaching" these tradecrafts.

Mentors and Elders used the term "Reading the Room", and trust me, gas stations are just one "room" criminals do read. The criminals get to know the "regulars" and what day, and time of day they do things, such as purchase fuel for vehicles.
Criminals get to know whom is going to arrive to purchase fuel for lawn mowers and other lawn/garden equipment. They do the same for boats, jet-skis and other marine "tools-n-toys".

Various modes of Criminals exist.
Some might just want what merchandise a traveling salesperson is carrying. Then again, if the person is kidnapped, then forced against their will, they can open a business with a safe with more valuables. And there is always the kidnapping for "information" about "people, places, and things" with the payoff, again, being valulables.

Others may prefer sexual activities, or the vehicle, or later on the lawn/garden, or marine equipment.
Hence the suggestions to watch your back, don't advertise, show situational awareness,and yeah, use and close the damn garage door at home if you have one.

I know, for a fact, some THR members either have fuel tanks, or just keep gas cans at home, and not just for being prepared. Take the wife that works a late shift, or the college age daughter that takes evening classes, and has a graveyard shift.

Parents and grandparents, with physical limits, and especially those with handicapped parking stickers.
Even in broad daylight, these folks are vulnerable, and gas stations are a good place to "case a vehicle" and find out where they live, or, just wait for a better opportunity to prey upon them.

As a mentor said: They can't get you, if'n you ain't there to be got.

 

[foghornl]

Good to see you on here again, Steve.....

I grew up in/around Memphis in the '60's & '70's. Lot of good places, and some ahhhhhhhh Not So Good spots, and some where even Memphis PD did NOT go alone.

ALWAYS bought gas waaay before dark, and well after sunrise, even back then.

Please continue with "Life Lessons, as Taught by Steve." We can all use a refresher every now-n-then

 

[Erik M]

One of the mods here stated an obvious point that I had missed. . If you are pumping gas you have a deterrent in your hand. Gas to the face would not be pleasant I imagine.

I always slip my carry piece in my pocket when i step out of the truck in a shady place. Mostly I try to get gas on my way into work in the afternoon since I usually leave work after midnight. I prefer the larger truckstop gas stations like Loves and Petro instead of the small mom and pop markets we have around here.

 

[springmom]

'Bout time you showed back up.

Around Houston, the "new" thing is, when the lady is pumping gas (this only works if the gas cap is on the driver's side) to slip up, open the passenger door, and steal her purse. Not super high risk in terms of personal safety but a royal PITA if you lose your identity and your money to these jerks. Not to mention they don't look to see if there's a child in the car first...one lady was made aware of the theft of her purse when her 9 year old daughter in the back seat told her (when she got back in) "Mama, somebody opened the door and took your purse."

*shakes head*

I make it a point to buy gas (if alone) at my neighborhood Valero every single time. They know me, I even recognize the customers sometimes, and, oh yes, I buy my gas in the daytime.

And my gas cap is on the passenger's side, but it doesn't matter. I take my keys and lock the car when I get out. It's only a little blue Subaru Forester, but I'll be hanged if somebody's going to drive off with it while I'm inside getting my soda fix for the day.

Jan

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

My dad was bent over filling up gas cans at night one time so we could get an early start on the yard work the next day. I was 14 or so at the time and was in the passenger seat... a bum came literally out of nowhere. He got right up in my dad's face saying "Gimme some moneh! You buyin gas so I know ya got dat moneh fuh meh" and trying to reach into his pockets.

Since my dad was looking at the ground and this guy sneaked up from around the other side of the pumps, it took him(and me) by complete surprise. This violation of personal space without any notice what-so-ever made my dad react in fight or flight mode... mostly fight now that I think about it...

Dad yanked the gas nozzle up and shoved it against his face. I'll never forget his exact words because this was the first time I ever heard him say the F word.

Dad (yelling at the top of his lungs, and wild eyed): "You better get the F&#$ away from me right now! RIGHT NOOOOWWWW!!!!"

Bum (with hands in the air, like he's about to get shot): "Maaaaan... I don't even know you man.... "

Dad (now in berserker mode): "ALL THE MORE REASON TO GET THE F*&^ AWAY FROM ME!!! RIIIIIIGGHHHHTTT NOOOOOWWWWW!!!"

Guy hustled on out of there and into the shadows with his hands up!

Goes to show how you can interrupt their mental game plan. It was basically attempted strong arm robbery. My dad made use of what he had at hand and used speed, surprise, and violence of action to get that guy on the run! Several valuable lessons in there, not the least of which is to be careful around gas stations. 'Specially at night.

 

[psyopspec]

Steve, it's great to be reading your posts again. Here's hoping all's been well. This time around, one point in particular caught my attention:

I know, for a fact, some THR members either have fuel tanks, or just keep gas cans at home, and not just for being prepared. Take the wife that works a late shift, or the college age daughter that takes evening classes, and has a graveyard shift.

I'm glad you mentioned this. For a spell, I was making trips that were about 1000 miles one-way that required a few days of work and then a drive back. I strongly preferred to hit the metro areas at night in order to avoid heavy traffic. However, crossing some rural states meant that gas could be not so available, or that the price could change drastically, or that the filling stations may not be open at odd hours. I invested in two five-gallon cans carried in the bed of the truck...

I found that by doing this I could extend my fuel range by a few hundred miles, which is something I could see being useful under certain circumstances - the ability to travel 500-800 miles without stopping in a populated area.

For filling, I'd take an exit in a rural area where any approaching traffic could be seen for miles. On rural highways, approaches for agricultural land worked nicely. Quick fill by myself and then be on my way, avoiding many of the risks you pointed out in the thread above. While an open truck stop can seem like an oasis in the middle of the night on a long drive, I've also had the hairs on the back of my neck stand up on more than one occasion while patronizing such an establishment.

 

[heeler]

I have to agree gas stations are prime spots for criminal activity and I also second what SpringMom said about stations in the Houston area.
I have been approached by drug dealers,beggars,prostitutes,and others of the lowly ilk of life at gas stations.
We have an executive that works for my company that was carjacked by a sawed off shotgun wielding guy and my brother works with a guy that was shot and robbed while pumping gas at a station two years ago.
Be very aware at these places.

 

[oldbanjo]

I really don't like to take my motorcycle to gas stations, I prefer to get gas in a can and fill up at home. I pick my station and the time of day very carefully. I hate going inside a station, it's not a safe place to be.

 

[redbeardsong]

How do you "change cars" to have local plates? Are you talking about rental cars? Borrowing friends' cars? Stealing a car?

 

[shockwave]

Yes, filling stations are places where the criminal element often goes to play and prey. But not all stations are created equal. Some are obviously more dodgy than others. Going to one in a bad area of town seems to carry higher risk because, as I'm sure you have observed yourself, in really run-down parts of town, "hanging out at the gas station" seems to be a recreational activity for some locals.

Of particular note are the places where the attached convenience store sells individually wrapped flavored cigars, drugs paraphernalia, incense, and similar goods catering to people at the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum. Filling up at one of these places definitely ups your risk, and I personally try to avoid them.

Stations located close to the entrance of gated communities, in upscale areas, can be quite different - the clientele tends to be white collar, there are no loiterers, and homeless, punks, thugs and bad actors have no cover to work with. Yes, there's no need for a comment here to the effect that "you can't always tell" or "no place is safe," etc.

Rather, the point here is that one can minimize risk through selecting a station that meets better criteria and convenience of location probably isn't the best metric to use when making a choice.

 

[easyg]

I've never had any problems at any gas station.
But I do make an effort to refuel during daylight hours and at a station in a nicer part of town.

When traveling outside my own area I just use some common sense...

Don't let the fuel gauge go below 1/4th before topping off.
This way you will never be in a situation where you are forced to stop at a dangerous looking place.
You have the option to drive on and look around for a less dangerous looking place.

Look around the place before stopping and getting out.
If there are predators around they will be watching you.
Look for folks who are just standing around with no clear purpose for being there.

Lock your doors.
Lock them while you are driving, and lock them when you stop, and lock them after you get out of the vehicle.

Pay at the pump whenever possible.
Do not go in to the store unless you simply must.

When pumping the fuel, stand with your back against your vehicle.

Pepper-spray or mace in the hand while pumping is also a good idea.


And carry a concealed handgun whenever possible.

 

[uspJ]

I say common sense goes along way. If you have to fill up your car pick the right times and places to do so. If you have to fill up in the early hours of the morning or late at night pick a well lit place especially one that doesn't serve fresh hot food. These seem to attract people who have just left the bar or parties (usually still drunk and a little rowdy) as well as the usual "Hey man! Can I borrow a dollar?" crowd.

Avoid places where thugs, tweakers, dealers, bums and panhandlers frequent. Pay at the pump, stay alert to your surroundings. If it looks like it may be shady then drive around the building before stopping and exiting the vehicle.

If you have to worry about swapping vehicles and plates when you fill up or have to worry about being followed home from a gas station some serious consideration about your lifestyle and the risks it entails is in order. I seriously doubt the average Joe needs to fill up on site from gas cans to avoid the gas station.

 

[mgkdrgn]

If you are pumping gas you have a deterrent in your hand.

I actually have one in both hands. One on the pump, the other in my pocket (pocket carry).

 

[Fred Fuller]

How do you "change cars" to have local plates?

As the folks I used to work with often said- amateurs talk tactics, professionals discuss logistics . One should have a support structure in place to help take care of things like providing different cars, etc. when doing important stuff.

lpl

 

[Dnaltrop]

Well... I hand the Attendant my Debit card, and the people working in the station usually even clean my windshield, while I enjoy the comfort of my vehicle.

You poor souls, having to get out...

Oh yeah... Oregon Law keeps Self-serve gas off the table , and a few more jobs in the economy.

It's a bizarre world when I leave the state and have to figure out those damn pumps.

 

[JellyJar]

After getting my Texas concealed handgun license in 1996, the closest I have ever come to needing it was at a gas station very early one AM and I did not have it with me!.:banghead:

I had just flown back to IAH and had parked in a long term parking lot I had never used before. I wanted to leave and go north but got turned around and ended up heading south on US 59 freeway. If you know Houston Texas you know the type of neighborhoods they have between downtown and IAH!

To make matters worse my gas gauge showed almost empty. Fearing running out of gas before getting home as soon as I had exited I stopped at the first gas station. As I was fueling I saw a disreputable person approach me from across the street. Straight to me! Fortunately he was satisfied with the five dollars I gave me and nothing else happened.

The reason I did not have my handgun with me was because I really dislike the idea of leaving a handgun in a car, even locked in the trunk, for a long time. I realize that since the parking lot I had used was owned by the city it was very unlikely my car would have been broken into but nevertheless I usually won't do that.

Whenever I am refueling my car at any gas station, day or night, I keep my head on a swivel looking out for any potential danger. I try to use those clips that keep the trigger of the gas pump engaged and step back so see better and to better be able to move to safety should I see any danger.

What I hate are those gas pumps you find in some areas that don't have that clip. They are mandated by the EPA for certain areas because of air pollution. Letting the pump run until it automatically kicks off often lets a little gas spill and that evaporates helping to cause smog. Then I try to pry my gas cap between the handle and that ( for lack of a better word ) trigger to keep the pump going automatically. I don't mind a little more air pollution in exchange for more safety!

 

[SSN Vet]

disjointed thoughts...

1. If you never go below a 1/4 tank, you're much less likely to find it necessary to pull into a gas station at a less than optimal location or time.

2. Frequent stations that are well lit, have pay at the pump and are in "good" neigborhoods.... saving $0.02/gal. doesn't really add up to much.

3. Swipe your card at the pump and have it in your hand b4 you unlock and get out.

4. Don't bother with receipts at the pump if you don't really need them.

5. Ratchet up awaremess level the entire time you're at the station.

6. Don't go inside.... milk, beer, soda, ice cream, bread, half & half, eggs.... they are all substantially cheaper (and safer to procure) at the grocery store. A little proper prior planning can prevent a bad situation, so get your life organized and plan accordingly.

7. Carry whenever your able to.

 

[Kbovine]

All excellent suggestions. I just have to +1 on not going below 1/4 tank. It's never good to pull into a less-than-desirable station or have to go at a late hour because you're running on fumes.

 

[sm]

Reply

Lee Lapin wrote:
As the folks I used to work with often said- amateurs talk tactics, professionals discuss logistics . One should have a support structure in place to help take care of things like providing different cars, etc. when doing important stuff.

I apologize to those whom wrote pms and wanted some more information about all this. My Internet access is dependent as to when I go to town, and use the Public Library.

I grew up into, and spent a life doing "important work" and this included being a juicy target for some serious models of criminals. I am still a target, and will always be to some extinct. Having come up this way, this is just "normal" thinking and behavior for me.

Logistics is something that everyone should think about, even just regular old J.Q.Public.

Example: Florida Non-Resident Conceal Carry
It did not take a rocket scientist "criminal" to figure out who was a tourist visiting the state.
Out of state license plates are obvious, and so were rental cars. Oh sure, Florida rents cars to residents of Florida, but the odds of out of town visitors in rental cars, goes up, in tourist areas.

Folks being victims of crime, entering, exiting and being in Florida is one of the factors that lead to Florida Non-Res Conceal Carry.

Yes, I traveled Florida, and yes, I and mine used vehicles with FL plates when in Florida, and we did so long before Florida Non-Res Conceal Carry.

Another Example: Shooting Competitions.
I competed, all over. Again, it does not take a rocket scientist criminal, to figure out there may be "guns" when there is a shoot. One year at the World Shoot, a number of vehicles were broken into at one of the hotels. This is just one example, as many cases of such break-ins have, and still occur.
Same can be said of those whom play Golf.

Granted some folks "advertise" more than others, with stickers on vehicles and wearing clothing that "advertise". Still even being ,more discreet, is not always enough, especially if one has out of town plates.

Me and Mine?
Logistics was part of our strategy and tactics. Take for instance attending a big shoot.
No stickers on vehicles, no logo clothing or hats, or gear bags visible.
I would often arrive at someone's home, with a garage, or in a rural area with a barn, and gear was handled behind "closed doors". Often I stayed in a private home/condo, instead of hotels, or motels. Many times my personal vehicle was left in the garage, or barn, and we used the hosts vehicle.

Gas Stations were just one "logistic" I and mine used, as you can tell. Many times I and mine did not use hotels and motels either. Again we had homes/condos we used. Either employers had these "safe havens" for our use in various locations, or we had trusted folks we stayed with.
Yes, employers had homes/condos strictly for the purpose of security reasons.

One cannot be "up" or aware of surroundings, 24/7/52. The human body will not allow it, as it is designed to protect itself. Same principles apply as to why a sniper can only be effective behind the glass for a certain amount of time.

So besides security reasons, these logistics allowed for "safe havens" in which to re-charge batteries. I and mine HAD to do this. It may make no sense to some, still do you realize how nice it is, to know you are "safe" and I mean truly safe, and be able to take a shower, eat a nice meal, and get some rest, without having to be in condition yellow, or yellow-orange?

Gas being in locations, other than gas stations, provided the same type of comfort, and feeling of safe. With "reserves" still charged up, I and mine were better able to handle serious situation when and if they occurred.

I hope that answers some private messages.

Steve

 

[Bubba613]

I have been stopping at gas stations for 30 years in all different places and at all different times. Strangely I was not accosted even once. And for most of that time I was unarmed. I would attribute it to luck but I have to say almost everyone I know has had the same experience.

 

[Franco2shoot]

Ok,
So I just purchased a Walther P99, and its size and weight (or lack thereof) have me re-thinking obtaining a CC permit here in Northern Virginia. In the past, I just have had trouble envisioning the need for a CC. This thread would seem to indicate that the one situation all agree upon is that "Carjacking" especially at dimly lit gas stations are number 1 on the list.

My question is what's number 2, 3 and 4? All 3 of my cars have the gas cap on the driver side, and I always have the key in my pocket as I fuel up, usually with my back to the car, and looking around. My biggest fear is a carjacking that is attempted while in a Fastfood drive through.

KKKKFL

 

[Bubba613]

Actually the biggest threat in TN is getting shot by someone you know. I would think VA is similar. Apparently getting robbed at a WalMart parking lot ranks high up there too. Parking lots at night are generally places where bad guys hang out because their prey is usually unaware, possibly impaired, and likely has money.

 

[uspJ]

Actually the biggest threat in TN is getting shot by someone you know. I would think VA is similar. Apparently getting robbed at a WalMart parking lot ranks high up there too. Parking lots at night are generally places where bad guys hang out because their prey is usually unaware, possibly impaired, and likely has money.

Agreed, and most likely will have their hands full with shopping bags.

My question is what's number 2, 3 and 4? All 3 of my cars have the gas cap on the driver side, and I always have the key in my pocket as I fuel up, usually with my back to the car, and looking around. My biggest fear is a carjacking that is attempted while in a Fastfood drive through.

I would say that the ATM and traffic lights are also areas where your awareness should be at its peak. Any time I go to the ATM after dark I have my gun in hand and use my other hand to do the transaction. Basically the way I see it anytime your in a static position your more at risk. When driving and the light turns red try to time the light if possible so that you don't have to come to a complete stop, if you do have to stop leave at least a car length between you and the car infront so that your not blocked in. Treat the fastfood drivethru the same as an ATM drivethru, keep awareness up and don't hesitate to leave if you get a bad feeling.

 

[Franco2shoot]

Problem with Fastfood drive thru's here in No.Va. is that since real estate is so expensive many of these are walled in. In other words, there is no way to get around the car ahead of you. Its probably why they are so popular with BG's.

With all the traffic congestion, traffic lights are fairly low risk, and ATM's are so numerous, I can pick and choose a low risk area. So I am still looking for solid reasons to get the CC other than getting gas after the wife and I have gone to a late nite movie.


KKKKFL

 

[sm]

Remember:

-Don't go where trouble is
-Leave if trouble shows up
-Have Mindset, Skill sets to use whatever "tool sets" to deal with trouble.

In MY work, professional thugs, along with other models of criminals, were a concern. Hence so many of the tidbits I share, and from the perspectives I do.
Granted many folks do not, or rarely would have some of the same concerns as I and mine, the reality is, by training the brain, and making some things a part of your "tool box" one can avoid getting into a situation, and hopefully, if trouble does show up, either leave, or deal with it effectively.

Gas stations were just one "real nasty" concern I and mine had. I started out before 911, ATMs, and cell phones and the first "fast food" I recall was McDonald's and the hamburgers were 15 cents.

Humm some of the gas stations had the crank handle option, in the event the electricity was out...

(and they should implement this again, because when you have tornado, hurricane, and other situations, you are not going to be able to "pump" gas. been there, done that, and got the T shirt).

Set aside folks in hi-risk work such as I am familiar with. Let us go back before ATMS and fast food.

Fridays were payday, and every criminal from dumber than dirt to more smart, knew this. All you have to do, is just watch folks going to and from the bank.
The gentleman in a nice suit, often gave the impression of having cashed a bigger pay check, so he was a mark.

One vehicles families were the norm, as were wives/moms staying home to raise kids. So on Friday, the wife/mom took the husband to work, and kept the car to do the shopping. Criminals knew this, as did everyone else, and it was a normal thing to see husbands let out for work, and then coming back out with the paycheck.
Or Cash
Yes, many employers paid employees in cash and just enclosed the "pay stubs".

So we now have ladies, with money, going shopping, and some had kids that get fussy and ...criminals had more easy marks. Kids distract, which is what criminals count on.
Gas stations were just one area of concern. It may have only taken $3 to fill the tank, but the paycheck was $85 for the week so ...money stolen is money stolen, and has a profound effect on the victims.

Another group I wanted to assist, and me and mine did, were female "drug reps".
Criminals hear the words "drug rep" and immediately think "drugs". Now these companies, wanted the young, good looking gals, to call on doctors in clinics, hospitals and to do presentations.

Now the young lady might be representing breast pumps, diabetic test kits, blood pressure machines for at home use by patients. They might be "repping" sinus meds (Claritin, Zyrtec), or "Rat Poison" the term used to refer to blood thinners for heart patients. Anything but a drug, that a criminal might be interested in.

That good looking 27 year old, out on the road, seen leaving a medical clinic, or hospital, or the like, is a target. Not only for "drugs" also, because she is a good looking female and some criminals are just flat sick.

It was after a second young female had been stalked, attacked, and had fought like hell to keep from being raped, that I got involved. The first victim, was sexually assaulted and raped and beaten.

Both were cased at a gas station, and stalked, and when the time came, the crimes took place.

All I am suggesting with this gas station thread, is to stop, think, do some self assessing of you and yours, especially females, elderly, and physically limited, and take steps to NOT be a victim.

I agree with ATM, Fast Food with "bottleneck" drive thru and parking lots, being other areas of concern.

Another one, base on some true events are car washes, both self service and full service.

Re:Banks
Just a sidebar. One of the things I used to do, was go get the cash from the bank, for employees cash pay envelopes.
I am not that old, but I started real young. So there I am a 13 year old, with all this cash. One day, I come back with over $25,000 in cash.
Keep in mind, making $100 a week was a lot of money, and a really nice lunch at the Drug Store lunch counter was only 85 cents, including drink.

I'd kill for one of those old lunch counter, open face roast beef sandwiches, with gravy , fries, salad and RC. Especially for less than a dollar...