Girlfriend needs a gun! (small problem)

[jade]

1. I am pretty weak in the upper body area and have wrist problems.

2. I don't like revolvers either. They have never been comfortable for me and shooting them hurts me. (yes my grip has been examined, etc.)

3. I use the push/pull method with no trouble.

4. Guns I shoot: Beretta 92fs Brigadier, 4" Kimber with extended slide stop, Ruger P90, Baby Desert Eagle in 9mm.

 

[JohnKSa]

My wife has a chronic condition which results in low hand strength. No, exercise doesn't help--in fact enough of it will make things worse.

She has no problem with the slide on a full size H&K USP in 9mm. She also can operate the slide on a Ruger P95.

Other 9mms she has tried (and we've tried a lot of them) are hard for her to rack.

She won't shoot revolvers because she says the recoil (on .38 or greater) too sharp and hurts. Also because the DA triggers are very difficult for her to deal with.

 

[The_Antibubba]

The capacity issue

thorazine,

Point out to her that if she can't rack the slide when she needs to, it won't matter if the gun holds 100 rounds. Revolvers have a tendency to go BANG when you pull the trigger. Also, quantity of ammo is no substitute for quality of shooting. Spray and pray is not an acceptable defensive handgun technique.

Try to find a range in your area where different types of handguns are available for rent-and try as many as possible.

 

[molonlabe]

My wife honed her skills shooting bowling pins with a 5 shot snub .38 and now can clear the table first time with it.

It goes bang every time.

If it doesn’t then in an emergency squeeze the trigger again.

It is virtually impossible to pull the gun (snub .38) from a women’s hand. Interviews with incarcerated criminals indicated they practiced taking guns from each other. (you should never let them get that close)

If you need more than five shots then it is time for the Calvary to come over the hill.
This is simple fact of the statistics of defensive shootings, Not Hollywood movies.

It has mild recoil for practice and can be loaded with +P or magnum loads.

Finally as I said, if she cannot complete a clearance drill then she is putting herself at risk. Capacity is far less important than shot placement as can be seen from police shootings (40 shots fired two hits). This is because drills under fright or flight circumstances are difficult to simulate. Practice until the response is automatic is imperative. Then in a crisis situation training will prevail.

If after all this she still insist then a exercise program needs to be rigorously followed.

Again don't get me wrong I own 4, 45's 5, 9mm several CZ's along with .22 and .380 and an equal number of .357/38 revolvers. Autos have their place in the right hands. I can hit a man sized target with my 6 inch 586 combat masterpiece at 100 yards. Revolvers are accurate even snubbies with practice.

 

[George S.]

You didn't say whether or not she will be CCW or not. but if she will be, look at the Taurus PT145 Millenium Pro in .45ACP. This is a 10-round double stack pistol that is easily concealable. The slide is not difficult to operate and it's actually easy to grip even with the wider mag.

Also look at the new Ruger P345 in .45ACP or the Springfield XD series in 9mm. 40S&W or .357SIG. The Service XD models have 15 round 9mm mags and the other calibers are 12-rounders. The XD pistols also have ambi mag releases which is a help for us lefties!! Both pistols are reasonably priced and the slide should be easy to operate.

But I do agree with others that a revolver is a excellent choice for defense and range use. Being a Ruger fan, she should look at a GP100 in a 4' barrel. Or an SP101 in the 3 1/2" barrel version if she may be carrying. A .357 mag is a great choice for personal defense and .38 special wadcutters are cheap and fun to shoot at the range. There are some very potent rounds for .357mag and even .38 Special +P.

For a shotgun, Mossberg and others makes pump guns that come with two interchangeable barrels. A short 18.5" barrel for home defense and a longer 26" barrel for skeet and trap shooting.

 

[Big Mike]

Glock 19
and
Rem 870 with youth or Hogue 12" LOP stock.

As with a few others, my first response would have been, and was for my wife, a 3" Ruger GP100 Revolver.

As for the "capacity issue" for a revolver, if the moons are syzygy and you have the fortunate luck of seeing someone do a "tactical" reload on a revolver (as always with commitment to training and technique), the perceived anxitey over having enough ammo may go away. It did for me. I saw matches where shooters with speedloaders, and not necessarily the competition ones, had emptied, loaded and brought their revolver on target and fired their first shot just as the speedloader hit the ground... Made a revolver believer out of me (previous auto-only snob).

FWIW...good luck!

Mike

 

[MrPink]

OK, here's my input:

Revolver: if she doesn't like the capacity issue, check out a S&W 686+ or the new PC586, which is a 7 shot 586, 3" ported barrel, nice trigger job from the PC.

Auto: If she must, try an 1911 Government. A Government 45 is relatively easy to rack back with a 16 pound spring and all that travel length. Just stay away from +P ammo with a 16lb spring.

 

[thorazine]

4. Guns I shoot: Beretta 92fs Brigadier, 4" Kimber with extended slide stop, Ruger P90, Baby Desert Eagle in 9mm.

I was considering on having her look at the the Beretta 92's as she said she wants to go with a 9MM or bigger. I honestly have never even handled a 92 however I assumed with the extra mass it might be easy to opperate.

She has no problem with the slide on a full size H&K USP in 9mm. She also can operate the slide on a Ruger P95.

Yeah I do recall the slide on the P95 being easy to manipulate. It's been a while since I have held a HK USP 9MM.

Also, quantity of ammo is no substitute for quality of shooting. Spray and pray is not an acceptable defensive handgun technique.

I agree. However I mentioned atleast one time that she is very confident and capable with some major calibers. I am quite impressed with her skill and quality of shooting. Spray and pray is not a factor here.

You didn't say whether or not she will be CCW or not.

Eventually she wants to carry.

If you need more than five shots then it is time for the Calvary to come over the hill.

This is simple fact of the statistics of defensive shootings, Not Hollywood movies.

I'm not trying to turn this in to a capacity debate as she is set on her ways however...

Those two statements are kind of contradictory as we both know bad guys don't fly twenty feet backwards and go down from a single shot center of mass as seen in the movies.

In the event of a shooting, I plan to miss, I plan to be stressed the max, I plan for my target to be moving and not a stationary target, I plan my target will shoot back with lethal intensity. Therefore I plan to carry more than five rounds of ammunition.

But this is not about me.

Even with that said I honestly tried to steer her in the direction of a revolver.

Finally as I said, if she cannot complete a clearance drill then she is putting herself at risk.

I agree completely.

Capacity is far less important than shot placement as can be seen from police shootings (40 shots fired two hits).

That may or may not support your or my arguement. I highly doubt the targets were standing stationary, not doing anything threatening, with a big bullseye painted on their chest.

This is because drills under fright or flight circumstances are difficult to simulate.

So are making your shots, I would assume.

 

[SapperLeader]

Part of the reason she may be having trouble with the auto slide is the spring weight. Im starting to get my sister into shooting, and she has been playing around with my handguns. My XD and Hipower she likes the feel and weight, but both of them have a 22 and 18.5 pound spring. She pulls the slide back with some dificulty. Then there is my 1911 9mm with a 12 pound spring, she can pull that back with ease, it balances in her hand, and shoots a respectable cartridge. If she is dead set against revolvers, start looking at the lower sprung autos and see if that helps. You can also try lower springs in guns to see how it goes. Above all, take her to a gunshop and see what feels good to her, and what she can manipulate. The sling shot method works for alot of people, and maybe have her look at moonclip revolvers, no slide to manipulate with a fast reload. Maybe soemthing will catch her fancy, its not about what you want her to have, its what she wants to have.

 

[DMF]

Push Pull

Our firearms instructors always tell people who are having problems to use the push-pull method. Most people try to hold the frame steady and pull the slide back. They tell the folks have trouble to push the frame in the opposite direction they are pulling the slide. I never had a problem, but the advice seemed to help those that do.

I've seen some very tiny people easily manipulate the slide on firearms, once they use the proper technique. When you think about it most recoil springs don't hold that much pressure. Male or female, if you're an adult and struggling with the slide you need to do two things, 1- hit the gym, 2- use the proper technique.

 

[JohnKSa]

Male or female, if you're an adult and struggling with the slide you need to do two things, 1- hit the gym, 2- use the proper technique.

How about this instead--"Male or female, if you're a healthy, normal adult and struggling with the slide you need to do two things, 1- hit the gym, 2- use the proper technique."

Some people just can't get appreciably stronger due to medical conditions. My wife's one of them.

 

[DMF]

Yes John, I suppose there are medical conditions that would create problems for some people, and I'm sorry your wife fits into that category.

However, I have to question whether someone who struggles with properly handling a weapon to overcome the 14# of pressure in a factory spring on Beretta 92, the 16# spring in a Sig 228 or 1911, or the 18# spring in a Glock 19, would even be capable of safely handling and firing the gun.

These springs don't have a lot of power, and using two hands it should not be a problem for anyone healthy enough to actually carry and shoot one.

 

[pax]

Thorazine ~

Do have her look at the Beretta 92s. However, watch how the gun fits her. Berettas are notoriously large for smaller hands. You may find that she can operate the slide okay, but that her shooting suffers. Plus, if she does as many people do and scootches her hand partially around the tang so her finger can reach the trigger, the gun will be recoiling straight into the knuckle at the base of her thumb . The least damaging place to take the recoil is into the web of tissue and muscle between forefinger and thumb, not into the thumb itself. If she takes it into that knuckle, even if she doesn't feel any immediate discomfort, it is likely to cause arthritis down the road.

pax

 

[rock jock]

Your girlfriend REALLY needs to evaluate why she feels the need to own a gun that she does not feel confident with.

 

[thorazine]

I'm glad to report that we are making great progress. Espically with the push pull method. We tried this before however I think I might have over explained things and made it sound more confusing than it really is.

 

[Brandon223]

XD XD XD

ILP you should check out ANY of the Springfield XDs, their slides are very easy to rack, their trigger is great, they're accurate, and they have high capacity. I personally have an XD40 Service and reliability is not an issue, I've actually tried to jam it but failed. It operates very similar to Glocks but the trigger is better and accuracy is better.

So look into the XDs ecspecially the new slightly larger 14 shot .45ACP version.

 

[Nitrogen]

I've got carpal tunnel, and I had to find just the right way to rack the slide.

When mine gets really bad, I turn my body 90 degrees away from the target (keeping the gun downrange of course!) and try the "regular" and/or the push/pull method that way. That allows me to get my shoulder into it.

 

[wbond]

Check out other discussion about .32 vs .38

That guy was also looking for handgun for g-friend.

He got some good advice in that thread.

 

[BigG]

Slingshot?

Well, I can grasp the analogy, but did anyone stop to consider with a slingshot, you pull back with your strong hand. Your weak hand holds the Y shaped thingy, like a bow and arrow.

It's really not operated much like a slingshot when you think of it like that.

Somebody taught me to grab the rear of the slide with an overhand grip near to my belly then thrust out the receiver with the strong hand while holding my weak hand in place. That is workable for somebody without much grip strength.

 

[Giolli Joker]

She has moderate to extreme diffaculty manipulating the slide on the hand guns listed above. She wants something chambered in atleast 9X19MM and is against owning a revolver (I've tried).

The answer could be a F.A.R. handgun...
(Check the link in my signature...)

 

[Sox]

The HK USP fullsize in 9mm has a really light slide to operate. My S.O. had no problem. Additionally, I like the fact the gun can be placed on safe with the thumb safety, a round chambered, and then decocked. CDNN had some decent USP prices on these a while back. I have seen them at shows and in shops for 425-450 in decent used condition, plus now I think 16 or 18 round mags are available.

 

[thorazine]

Wow. This is an old topic of mine that I forgot about.

She ended up getting a two tone P239 in 9MM.

 

[Will Fennell]

1911...

I recently went through the same issue with my significant other......so I dutifully assembled a borrowed collection of all the 9mm and up handguns that I thought would be "appropriate" for a lady shooter.......

She kept setting down all the XD's and Sig and Kahr 9mm's, and taking my 1911's away from me She likes how easy it is to work the slide on the 1911, how small and comfortable the grip is, how low the gun sits in her hand, and how much easier it is to press the trigger when the sights are aligned

I've dedicated one of my full size 1911's in .45 acp for her.....and set the gun up for lighter, non +p loads. It runs on a 15 lb spring, and she shoots mainly WWB 185gr FMJ's that run 900 fps. She keeps Hornady 185 gr. XTP's in the gun for defense. I also have a KIMBER .17 M2 conversion unit that she loves shooting for additional practice.

Now we are setting up a KIMBER ULTRA CARRY for her.....I actually found one that seems to work...its not alot of fun to shoot for her, but the controls are in the same place as her full size, so we are working towards her being comfortable with it.

This works out well for the both of us, as I carry a 1911 everyday, so she is familar with my handgun, if she needs to pick it up and clear it for safety, or use it. In a pinch, we can use the same ammo and mags.....

And now, I get to build another custom 1911 for me

 

[Zundfolge]

I think once she masters the "slingshot" method of slide racking it will become a non-issue, but on the outside chance it doesn't, I do seem to recall seeing a mod for semi autos with mounted optics that adds a "T"shaped charging handle apparatus to the back of the slide (not sure if this replaces the rear sight however).


As for why so many people (especially women) don't like wheelguns, I'll tell you my first experience with a DA Revolver left me wanting ... I hate the heavy DA trigger on most wheelguns (then I got to shoot a tuned Colt Python and my mind is changed).

Single action pull on a revolver is nice, but having to pull back the hammer each time before firing (especially under duress) doesn't sound fun.

 

[gazpacho]

How about a Browning High Power?