Glock 23 kB on film
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I've "read" Glock's "margins" are in the 40's... percentage range.
If that's gross operating margins, for example, then S&W which is a public company, has gross margin in the low 30's. Of course, you then deduct sales, administrative cost, etc, etc and the margin drops substantially...like all companies.
So, I could easily believe Glock is in the 40+ margin range given their very large sales on few models. Their "efficiency" has to be substantial compared to S&W. Look at all the variations that S&W sells, like Ruger, Beretta, etc, etc.
I could also believe $75-$100 range "cost" for a Glock. Just like I could believe $100-$125 "cost" for a Springfield GI.
Looks like I helped take this thread all over the place.
If that's gross operating margins, for example, then S&W which is a public company, has gross margin in the low 30's. Of course, you then deduct sales, administrative cost, etc, etc and the margin drops substantially...like all companies.
So, I could easily believe Glock is in the 40+ margin range given their very large sales on few models. Their "efficiency" has to be substantial compared to S&W. Look at all the variations that S&W sells, like Ruger, Beretta, etc, etc.
I could also believe $75-$100 range "cost" for a Glock. Just like I could believe $100-$125 "cost" for a Springfield GI.
Looks like I helped take this thread all over the place.
defiant73a
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Actually, with the Glock 22 that is not true. With the Glock 22, the frames are the first go (and usually quite early--20,000 - 30,000 rounds). The vaunted recoil absorbing "flexing" gets them and reliability goes out the window. FWIW, Glock has attempted to fix the problem with larger (longer) blocks (the jury's still out on that fix), and the G23/27 does not seem to have the problem.
brownie0486
Member
Nice bit of info there defiant73a. I didn't know that.
I could also believe $75-$100 range "cost" for a Glock. Just like I could believe $100-$125 "cost" for a Springfield GI.
Cost of manufacturing is constantly reduced by the number of pieces made, it's just economics 101 really. The numbers being thrown around change on a daily basis as long as the plants are producing that day
If the almighty Glock cost only $75.00 to make then why does the company charge outrageous prices for them?
Did you not pay attention to economics 101 in school sir? Supply and demand has a lot to do with it. If Mr. G could not sell his products, the prices would be less per unit to make them more attractive economically.
As that is not the case with G's [ they are in high constant demand worldwide ], he can charge whatever he likes to the jobbers who then pass on higher prices to the distributors, who then pass on higher prices to the dealers, who then pass on higher prices to the consumer.
Mr. G doesn't charge you what you are paying over the retail counter
Brownie
I could also believe $75-$100 range "cost" for a Glock. Just like I could believe $100-$125 "cost" for a Springfield GI.
Cost of manufacturing is constantly reduced by the number of pieces made, it's just economics 101 really. The numbers being thrown around change on a daily basis as long as the plants are producing that day
If the almighty Glock cost only $75.00 to make then why does the company charge outrageous prices for them?
Did you not pay attention to economics 101 in school sir? Supply and demand has a lot to do with it. If Mr. G could not sell his products, the prices would be less per unit to make them more attractive economically.
As that is not the case with G's [ they are in high constant demand worldwide ], he can charge whatever he likes to the jobbers who then pass on higher prices to the distributors, who then pass on higher prices to the dealers, who then pass on higher prices to the consumer.
Mr. G doesn't charge you what you are paying over the retail counter
Brownie
These are the MSRPs for Springfields and Glocks. These are no frills models.
Glock-19: $599.00
Glock-21: $637.00
Springfield XD-9: $536.00 with Gear System
Springfield GI-45: $587.00 with Holster
So much for the Almighty Glock being a great deal
If the 1911 is such a horrible pistol then why do they sell like hotcakes. Glocks aren't in demand you see them everywhere. 1911s on the other hand are more difficult to locate
Side Note: The G-27 has a different recoil guiderod system then the G-22. Surprisingly the G-27 has a bit less recoil then the G-22.
Glock-19: $599.00
Glock-21: $637.00
Springfield XD-9: $536.00 with Gear System
Springfield GI-45: $587.00 with Holster
So much for the Almighty Glock being a great deal
If the 1911 is such a horrible pistol then why do they sell like hotcakes. Glocks aren't in demand you see them everywhere. 1911s on the other hand are more difficult to locate
Side Note: The G-27 has a different recoil guiderod system then the G-22. Surprisingly the G-27 has a bit less recoil then the G-22.
brownie0486
Member
If the 1911 is such a horrible pistol then why do they sell like hotcakes. Glocks aren't in demand you see them everywhere. 1911s on the other hand are more difficult to locate
I happen to work for a gun shop when not training people how to stay alive with a handgun on the streets. I sell 10-12 glocks of various flavors for every 1911 out the door.
1911's are more difficult to locate? Where do you live, in the Czech republic or someplace similiar?
I also sell more XD's by the dozen over the 1911's as well, but then the XD's are a glock with a grip safety for the most part. Must be something about those polymer "sissy" type pistols people like hey?
You make a great case against your own "sissy polymer" statements earlier by mentioning XD's. Thats interesting isn't it?
Brownie
I happen to work for a gun shop when not training people how to stay alive with a handgun on the streets. I sell 10-12 glocks of various flavors for every 1911 out the door.
1911's are more difficult to locate? Where do you live, in the Czech republic or someplace similiar?
I also sell more XD's by the dozen over the 1911's as well, but then the XD's are a glock with a grip safety for the most part.
Must be something about those polymer "sissy" type pistols people like hey? You make a great case against your own "sissy polymer" statements earlier by mentioning XD's. Thats interesting isn't it?
Brownie
If it really only costs GLOCK $75 to make a G17, when all expenses, etc., were covered, why don't they charge dealers $150, and have dealers in turn charge consumers $300? Everyone would be netting a 100-percent profit, it would be the cheapest high-quality gun on the market by a long shot (cheaper than a basic Taurus .38), and their sales would skyrocket. Needless to say, in real terms, taking into account industrial plant, overhead, liability, and so on, it costs them more than $75 to make a pistol. Certainly they are a healthy and profitable company but I doubt they are netting 4-5 times their total investment per unit.
For sure Gaston Glock intended to make a pistol that would be competitive in the marketplace, but I doubt his "sole intent" was to be the lowest bidder in an absolute sense. Perhaps the lowest bidder on a gun that was otherwise comparable to designs by Sig-Sauer, Walther, Steyr, HK, and so on, in terms of accuracy, durability, reliability, safety, ease of maintenance, etc. But I suppose you could say that about any manufacturer who tries to secure contracts with agencies, departments, armed forces, etc. Do you suppose that when, say, the FBI or Coast Guard solicits bids for new sidearms, the HK rep calls up and says, "Well, we're not gonna be anywhere close to the lowest bid, in fact you could buy 4 or 5 G22s for each P2000, but let me tell ya, it'll totally be worth it!"?
For sure Gaston Glock intended to make a pistol that would be competitive in the marketplace, but I doubt his "sole intent" was to be the lowest bidder in an absolute sense. Perhaps the lowest bidder on a gun that was otherwise comparable to designs by Sig-Sauer, Walther, Steyr, HK, and so on, in terms of accuracy, durability, reliability, safety, ease of maintenance, etc. But I suppose you could say that about any manufacturer who tries to secure contracts with agencies, departments, armed forces, etc. Do you suppose that when, say, the FBI or Coast Guard solicits bids for new sidearms, the HK rep calls up and says, "Well, we're not gonna be anywhere close to the lowest bid, in fact you could buy 4 or 5 G22s for each P2000, but let me tell ya, it'll totally be worth it!"?
defiant73a
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MSRPs are a joke (and always have been). You can easily beat the MSRPs by $100. Right now (through 12-31-06), GSSF has the following prices:
G19 - $398.20
G21 - $464.20
G19 - $398.20
G21 - $464.20
brownie0486
Member
My last post was to prove the Glock isn't what it cracked up to be.
According to sales for the last couple of decades it is
There's plenty of pistols out there that are way better for less money
The 1911 certainly isn't one of them though
Brownie
According to sales for the last couple of decades it is
There's plenty of pistols out there that are way better for less money
The 1911 certainly isn't one of them though
Brownie
And so yet another thread deteriorates into GLOCKS ARE AWESOME vs. GLOCKS BITE THE BIG ONE.
The fact is that anything which is highly popular will also have a backlash against it. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. In my opinion, being the lowest bidder simply cannot fully explain why they are so widely adopted by law enforcement. There are cheaper guns, and if Glocks' flaws were really that pervasive they would not continue to be adopted so widely. The rare guns which kB! are posted all over the Internet and are a legitimate cause for concern, but while I've seen may 12 or so Glock kB! pics, I haven't seen pictures of the other 15,000,000 which have stayed in good shape throughout their service life.
The fact is that anything which is highly popular will also have a backlash against it. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. In my opinion, being the lowest bidder simply cannot fully explain why they are so widely adopted by law enforcement. There are cheaper guns, and if Glocks' flaws were really that pervasive they would not continue to be adopted so widely. The rare guns which kB! are posted all over the Internet and are a legitimate cause for concern, but while I've seen may 12 or so Glock kB! pics, I haven't seen pictures of the other 15,000,000 which have stayed in good shape throughout their service life.
das028
Member
"I live in the United States Mr snackcake My last post was to prove the Glock isn't what it cracked up to be. There's plenty of pistols out there that are way better for less money"
Ok fella, you keep on coming up with these "of the wall remarks", with no argument to back it up.
What are these pistols that are better for less money, that you speak of?
Why are these pistols better?
Whats your reasoning?
You know anybody can run their mouth and spout out their opinion, but why do you think these things?
You know, you would have much more credability if you sounded like you knew what your talking about. No offense but your arguments are hog wash, you sound like a newbie. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but your just stating opinions here. I want to here your reasoning, and then maybe I can take you more seriously.
thanks
DAS
Ok fella, you keep on coming up with these "of the wall remarks", with no argument to back it up.
What are these pistols that are better for less money, that you speak of?
Why are these pistols better?
Whats your reasoning?
You know anybody can run their mouth and spout out their opinion, but why do you think these things?
You know, you would have much more credability if you sounded like you knew what your talking about. No offense but your arguments are hog wash, you sound like a newbie. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but your just stating opinions here. I want to here your reasoning, and then maybe I can take you more seriously.
thanks
DAS
das028
Member
"The rare guns which kB! are posted all over the Internet and are a legitimate cause for concern, but while I've seen may 12 or so Glock kB! pics, I haven't seen pictures of the other 15,000,000 which have stayed in good shape throughout their service life."
Bingo! Good post!
Bingo! Good post!
Over the counter prices (retail and LEO) are high because the contract prices to departments are nearly at cost, often free with trade-in. Glock recoups their investment by reselling the premium trade-ins (Sigs, Berettas, Smiths) and by charging double for retail sales.
I remember a comment made by a distributor years ago, that every time a retail purchase is made the buyer is not only paying for his gun, but also for a gun that was issued by a department.
I remember a comment made by a distributor years ago, that every time a retail purchase is made the buyer is not only paying for his gun, but also for a gun that was issued by a department.
Maybe you sell alot of the plastic wonders in your neck of the woods, but they don't sell for crap in Indiana. Atleast not where I'm at anyway. You'll never get me to believe the Glock is the better gun until I physically see one that works like it should. I don't recommend Glocks to anyone. I do recommend the XD for a starter pistol.
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