Glock grip angle - no flaming please !

[Wanderling]

I read in a few threads (some are now closed, and for a good reason) that "Glock grip angle sucks" and is "unnatural".

I am a new shooter. Never shot a handgun in my life until in my 40s. (Did shoot some other, longer things quite a bit).

Before buying my first handgun, I did lots of research. I was looking for a relatively inexpensive 9mm that had reputation for reliability, required least amount of skill to shoot and maintain, and felt comfortable. I narrowed it down to CZ75B (didn't get it as it was not to be found anywhere locally to hold, and out of stock anywhere else), Ruger 95, Beretta Px4, Beretta 92, and Glock 19/17.

Then I went to the range and shot all of them (my friend had two Berettas and the rest were rented).

For me, not being biased a single bit, and having never shot a handgun before, the grip angle on Glocks seemed more natural. That is, I didn't have to raise my hand as high to aim with it as I had to with other guns. And the least amount the hand needs to be raised, the easier it is.

So, honestly, I think the Glock grip angle feels "unnatural" simply because people are by then used to shooting other guns & habitually raise Glock too high at first. For the first time shooter it feels a bit more natural, I repeat - a bit. Not much more natural. Not the end of the world natural. It's not that important.

In the end I ended up with G17. The Ruger was heavy and bulky and I didn't quite like the trigger (but on the other hand I liked everything else about it, it was more comfortable to hold, nice finish, and cheape than the rest). The Beretta 92 was heavy, the grip felt too wide, and it was slightly more expensive. The Px4 was very comfortable to hold and shoot but I got a few FTFs (limpwristing, but I didn't get them with other guns) and it was the least accurate gun - for me - of all of them. G19 and G17 were, surprisingly, the easiest ones to shoot accurately - surprisingly because they were not as comfy to hold as Ruger or Px4 (I am talking strictly about the feel of the grip in my hand). In the end I got G17 because it was by far the more comfortable of the two, while being just a little larger.

I am not a Glock fanboy, I would not hesitate to buy a different gun. I love my G17 but it's not an "ultimate gun", just a very good one. I am sure that if I ever get a gun with a more conventional grip angle I would adjust to shooting it very quickly and would have no problems switching from it to Glock and back.

 

[Walking Dead]

I like it personally. Back when I took my CCL test I barrowed a friends Glock 19 to take the test with. I had only shot a Glock one time 13 years before that.

 

[Liberty1776]

I've run through many brands. To select them I go to gun shows and see what "feels good" in my hand. Then I buy them and shoot them. I've ended up with the ones that work best for me and 2 of them are Glocks. The others I've kept are 1911 clones, Ruger 345, and a Sig 220. But grip angle and feel is where I start...

 

[Nushif]

I would actually like to know what these angles are. I mean, we see this discussed, and we all can *see* there is a difference, but what exactly is it?

Let's determine a standard and measure our guns. What is the difference in angle, actually? that would be really interesting, I think.

[edit]
So I did a little bit of digging and this is what I came up with:

The grip angle on the original Colt Model 1911 pistol is between 108 and 110 degrees, as measured between the barrel and the grip. Grip angle is alternately expressed as the angle past 90 degrees from horizontal. In this case, the grip angle would be between 18 and 20 degrees

 

[Walt Sherrill]

The Glock grip angle is different from the other guns I own, and mine don't point as naturally for me as some other guns. But, if I use the sights, Glocks are just as accurate.

When I was shooting IDPA a lot, some years back, I generally had slightly better scores (i.e., faster times) with my Glock 34 than with other guns.

In a personal defense situation, if I have to "point shoot" that would probably be close enough that the grip angle will not matter; otherwise, I'll use the sights...

 

[StrikeFire83]

I think this issue is incredibly overblown. Maybe for guys who've been shooitng 1911s since the dawn of time, but I bought my G17 and my CZ-75B within months of each other, and I've NEVER had a problem transitioning between the two of them at the range or when "action shooting" at my friend's ranch.

Diversify, bruthas, diversify!

 

[matrem]

I can remember being fortunate enough to shoot with some pretty good archers in the seventies.
Even then, they debated high wrist vrs low wrist.

I chose a "low" wrist position, and to this day prefer 1911/XD angle to Luger/MKII/ Glock angle.

As at least one experienced archer has told me:
"How you hold it ain't important, it's the rest of what you do that is".

 

[JohnBT]

"I think the Glock grip angle feels "unnatural" simply because people are by then used to shooting other guns & habitually raise Glock too high at first."

Maybe all wrists and hands aren't the same. Could be. Maybe my hand is more like JMB's than Mr. Glock's.

John

 

[ku4hx]

No big deal on any gun's grip. I own a bate of revolvers and pistols by Ruger, S&W, Glock, Browning, and etc. They all feel different to one degree or another and I just learn to shoot 'em all. Been doing that for over 50 years. The key is to practice, practice and practice some more with all of 'em.

If you absolutely can't shoot one gun brand then don't spend your hard earned money on that brand ... buy something different. Personally I never met a grip I couldn't handle proficiently. My Desert Eagle is a bit of a stretch but I don't shoot it 300 rounds at a time either. Well, I have but it's been a while.

 

[Nushif]

I once read somewhere that the designs behind grip designs vary a lot.

What it boiled down to was this:
The Glock has a grip angle more like holding a fencing sword-type-tool, because european ergonomics are more accustomed to holding a weapon like that, where the TT33 and Makarov angle are more like punching at the target and the 1911 style angle is like pointing at a target.

I'll buy the TT33 and 1911 angles for sure, but I haven't shot Glocks well enough to really comment on that.

 

[StrikeFire83]

If you absolutely can't shoot one gun brand then don't spend your hard earned money on that brand ... buy something different. Personally I never met a grip I couldn't handle proficiently. My Desert Eagle is a bit of a stretch but I don't shoot it 300 rounds at a time either. Well, I have but it's been a while.

This.

 

[dragon813gt]

They just don't work for me. I am not knocking Glocks. But they are uncomfortable for me to shoot. And they don't point as naturally. All I can tell you is that the grip angle IS wrong for me. I wish it wasn't because they are tanks and I would love to own one.


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[The Lone Haranguer]

I never had any trouble getting used to my own Glock's grip angle, or even switching between guns. Still, one size doesn't fit all. If you just can't stand it, get something else instead of grousing about it. There are lots of choices out there.

The Glock has a grip angle more like holding a fencing sword-type-tool, because european ergonomics are more accustomed to holding a weapon like that ...

I read an account (apocryphal) of the Luger grip angle being designed to duplicate the angle of an officer's hand holding a sword in a signaling position (I assume pointed up over his head at a right or near-right angle), so this is plausible. I am sure this was a common practice in the pre-First World War era when it was designed.

 

[TarDevil]

The first time I shot a Glock (model 22), I had never heard a word about grip angles and such. My buddy and I, with several of our family members, rented a range one afternoon. He brought a half dozen of his handguns, I brought the only one I had at the time. Long story short, I sent one magazine downrange with the Glock and didn't pick it up again. Just wasn't suited to me like almost every other gun I shot that day.

I only assumed, years later, that my dissatisfaction with the Glock was due to the grip angle.

Who cares. They are nice guns and there's a market for them. Just not for me.

 

[X-Rap]

It's like saying you can't shoot a DA or SA revolver because the grip angle is different or a J instead of a K because it's smaller. Few guns sit in the hand perfectly but to me the Glock fits as well as any.
The typical S&W or Colt revos from the times of the great modern gunfighters in the last century have little in common with todays Semi Auto defense guns in way of angle or shape but those guys could do a pretty good job at instinctive unaimed close range combat shooting. I think it's all BS to say that grip angle is a no go when you look at shooting history and those that have adapted to some very different if not odd grip shapes and angles.

 

[Hunter125]

I have found that my natural shooting position puts me high with a Glock and just about dead on with my XD's. If I close my eyes and point my XD, I'm almost right on, a Glock is high. Just my own personal preference, but I can still shoot it, I just have to think about aiming. That's why my SD guns are XD's.
My GP100 has a similar problem. I shoot it well, but if I point and shoot I am typically high. After a couple hundred rounds, I start to do it naturally. Part of it is what you get used to.

 

[matrem]

I think it's all BS to say that grip angle is a no go when you look at shooting history and those that have adapted to some very different if not odd grip shapes and angles.

Aside from the fact that most of history has a bit of myth involved, and we can (now) choose what we shoot best..

Why not find what works best & use that one?

 

[Ankeny]

Maybe all wrists and hands aren't the same.

That can be a hard concept for some people to grasp.

 

[X-Rap]

History in terms of Bill Jordon, Ed McGivern, Rex Applegate, Charles Askins, and I'm sure guys like Old Fuff can add many more, effectivly used grip frames other than what many of todays semi autos have and it is well documented so while myth does play a part in history I suspect the grip angle and unshootability of the Glock will be a myth in its history as well when written.

 

[matrem]

Taking advantage of the latest/best technology has held some of us back for as long as I've read about.
I understand where you're coming from...
.

 

[JRH6856]

The grip angle on a 1911 is 18 degrees. I believe a Glock is 21 or 23. These are measured on the front strap of the grip. I think the main problem I have with Glock grips is not the angle overall, but the hump created by the swell of the butt at the base of the backstrap. This makes a big change in the angle of the back strap and forces the shooter to roll the wrist forward when aiming.

The 1911with a flat mainspring housing does not have any hump, but the 1911A1 with the rounded housing does. Even so, it is not as much as on a Glock.

The effect of the hump is exaggerated also by the width fo the grip due to the double stack magazine. The difference to me between a Glock 30 and 36 is like night and day. And FWIW, I have the same problem with a double stack 1911.

There are several videos floating around detailing how to heat and roll a Glock backstrap to eliminate the hump. I haven't tried it cause I don't have a Glock.

Nushif, fencing analogy makes sense. I have fenced enough to say that holding a Glock would feel very natural if it had a 36 inch blade. But it doesn't and I don't intend to parry or thrust with the barrel at any length. When held naturally, the blade of the epee or foil angles upward and the tip is held a bit high. It comes in line when the arm is extended for a thrust. With a pistol, I am not extending my arm to thrust. I am instead, pointing at the target in which case, the fencing grip is a bit unnatural for me. As usual, YMMV.

 

[Turn Key]

To the OP, sorry, I'd have to flame on ..

http://www.amazon.com/Glock-The-Rise-Americas-Gun/dp/0307719936

TK

 

[JDGray]

My G19 has almost the exact grip angle, contour, as my SA1911 Milspec. The reason Glocks point higher, is because they settle down in your hand farther in the back because of the very low bore axis. The trigger gaurds fall in about the same place on both platforms, but the Glock will rotate up until the much higher rear tang is in the hand.

Using a Gripforce beavertail on the Glock, will take up some of that extra height, and point more like a 1911.

 

[jmr40]

What you found is actually the rule rather than the exception. Glocks grip angle is truly more natural and almost all non shooters find it better and easier to use. That is one reason why all police departments find that rookie cops shoot Glocks better. Older more experienced shooters struggle because it is different than what they are used to. Once someone masters a Glock they won't go back because they find the angle improves their shooting.

 

[skoro]

I've shot Glocks, but never owned one. I'm one of those guys who just doesn't fit with the grip angle. They're good guns with a fine reputation. But the angle is a little bit off for me. Must fit lots of people well, though - they sell a ton of 'em.