Glock grip angle

[David E]

David, this is where point shooting is applicable.

For a long time, point shooting a Glock resulted in high hits, due to the grip angle/hump.

When I started match shooting, emphasis was on the "front sight flash" so you can assure your sights were on target. Well, this is hard to do in low light or no light situation where you can't visualize the sights.

In low light, you confirm the sights in the muzzle flash.

Point shooting allows fast draw and hits to POA to close targets/threats without the reliance on the sights.

IF the gun fits your hand, sure. Understand, this works both ways. If a shooter has decades behind a Glock, he'll hit low with a 1911 with a flat MSH.

Here are point shooting steps we used - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7674144#post7674144

I know how to point shoot. Even won stages and matches because of it when the sights broke in mid-stage or the entire gun was covered with a sheet. But that's because I have decades behind it and it points right for me.

 

[LiveLife]

In dim light, it may take the first shot to confirm my sights in the muzzle flash to adjust for the following shots, firing extra if the confirmation shows the first shot went high.

I was responding to this sentence in "tactical shooting" sense but perhaps you were talking in terms of slow fire/range shooting? For me, in actual shooting scenario, one would not have the time to be confirming the sights or holes on target in dim light as I would be focused more on the action/reaction of my threat to anticipate movement to shift my "point shooting" POA.

Besides, point shooting at close ranges (7-15 yards) will produce 4"-6"+ shot groups so shooting high/low a bit won't matter that much whether is has Glock or 1911 grip angles. For me, the main focus of close range point shooting is the ability to draw and fire with reasonable accuracy by actually hitting your target without the aid of the sights.

 

[Alberforth]

Well, this video shows that even the Mil-Spec 1911 point shot quite well - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcUcE3xCw8I

That video doesn't address the issue, this one does at about 4:57 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acEMAd0cVHU

All this really does though is point out that again, as has been said, it depends on what you are used to--the argument can be made that the context of the judgment in the above video is that of being used to revolvers.

 

[Hamburger]

I like the look, but don't you lose the Tennifer finish that's one of the Glock's biggest advantages? Where did you have it done, and how much did it cost?

The process did take off the teniffer, but teniffer is overrated. My pistols are not being dragged through salt water marshes. So far so good, plus I had some "black oxided" again.

Where did I get it done? My livingroom.

 

[Telekinesis]

I believe that the HK P7 and the Glock share the same grip angle. I believe they are both about 110 degrees.

 

[Seven For Sure]

I find it interesting that there are very few modern guns made with the grip angle of the Glock.

Because for most people, it is the wrong grip angle.
Most people, if they close their eyes and point a Glock at a target, will find the sights are aligned way over the target when they open their eyes again.

If it were a good ergonomic grip angle for most people, more manufactures would be copying it, just like they did the "safe action" trigger.

rc

Is'nt ironic that Low & Left is the problem most new Glock shooters have? Even more so when jerking the trigger is blamed for the Left part and most (by far) shooters are right-handed. Seems that the jerking of a R-handed shooter would pull right. I believe the low part is flinching with a lightweight gun in most cases.

For any of you that still have that problem, I set up a G35 Caspian with Glock 20/21 sights and it works very well for me, can't tell a difference really but I shoot that pistol at longer ranges than would be legit in a SD situation unless you were being shot at. Had no negative effects at shorter distances either though really.

 

[David E]

I was responding to this sentence in "tactical shooting" sense but perhaps you were talking in terms of slow fire/range shooting? .

Range, yes, slow fire, no!

In real life as a cop, I provided cover several times on low light where I couldn't see my sights. I got some night sights.

When the gun points right, it's much easier to point shoot. It's silly to fight your equipment when you don't have to.

 

[Wanderling]

This is my first post on forum, so let me start by saying "Hello !" to everybody.

I have never shot a handgun in my life - not counting about 3 shots some 20 years ago. I always wanted to get one, though. Long story short, I ended up with Glock 17. I rented a couple guns, shot a few friends' guns, G17 is the one I am most comfortable and accurate with.

Moreover, when I use other people's guns, I tend to aim low.

I like the grip angle on Glock. I just don't like it's being so fat. However, I am consistently much more accurate shooting it than just about any other gun I've tried. I am sure that if I had a prior experience with 1911 or S&W or any other gun, I'd tend to point a Glock high.

There's nothing wrong with Glock grip angle. There's nothing wrong with most guns' grip angles. It's purely the matter of habit. You expect the gun to point the certain way, based on prior experience. If the grip angle is noticeably different, when you raise the gun to the usual level, it points differently. When I shot friends' Berettas, I tended to point low. When they shot my Glock, they tended to point high. However when a friend of mine who's never shot any pistol before went with us to the range, he shot my Glock more accurately than our friends' Beretta. If you were shooting, say, a Tokarev exclusively in the past, you'd think most other guns were pointing high.

Just my $.02.

 

[Feanor]

Is there any other handgun that uses the same grip angle as the Glock? I have recently discovered that I shoot well with a Glock, but I find them pretty ugly.

You cannot make this crap up.

 

[Feanor]

The process did take off the teniffer, but teniffer is overrated. My pistols are not being dragged through salt water marshes.

You did not remove the tenifer, the tenifer is not something a Glock has, its something that was done to it! All you did was remove the phosphate treatment.

Tenifer could only be removed if you were to remove about a micron of the pistols slide itself. Tenifer is a hardening process, and its not overrated, there is no other corrosion treatment that surpasses it.

 

[chicharrones]

So you like the Glock but don't like the look?

Do what I did.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/album.php?albumid=975&pictureid=4789
http://glocktalk.com/forums/album.php?albumid=975&pictureid=4262

I like it a lot

That's why I like the muzzle of a Glock 36. Because of its unGlockness.

Seriously, if Glock could inject just a bit of style into their slides it would be an aesthetic improvement.

The frames have a bit of style, but the block slides are just . . . blah.

 

[JustSomeDude]

That's why I like the muzzle of a Glock 36. Because of its unGlockness.

Seriously, if Glock could inject just a bit of style into their slides it would be an aesthetic improvement.

The frames have a bit of style, but the block slides are just . . . blah.

Huh, if they would do that to their double stacks, I wouldn't be complaining. It's not much, but it's just enough to not be simply a brick. One of the reasons I'm thinking about a Glock is to up the capacity from my CM9.

 

[amd6547]

David wrote:
"My comments are mainly directed at the full-size guns with some overlap to the 19/23 size.

If you really sell your last 1911 and BHP, then you were never really one of us...... "

I also shoot the Glock 17 and find it points like a finger.
Not sure I ever wanted to be one of whatever "us" you are referring to...I am 54, laid off a week ago, and considering consolodating my collection to guns I actually shoot.

 

[Quiet]

The Glock grip angle was designed after and is the same on the Luger P-08.

 

[David E]

My whole point wasn't to dispute that the Glock may point well for some people. My point was that it is NOT simply a "mind" thing. The famous Glock grip angle is obviously a problem for many. To argue otherwise is to ignore the fact that 1000's of people have spent 100's of 1000's of dollars to make the Glock point more like a 1911. Some people make a living at doing just that, so yeah, the grip angle can be a problem.

It can be overcome with dedicated practice and or money, tho, so it's not insurmountable. If the Glock points well for you the first time you hold one, great! You just saved a lot of time and money.

 

[Wanderling]

My whole point wasn't to dispute that the Glock may point well for some people. My point was that it is NOT simply a "mind" thing. The famous Glock grip angle is obviously a problem for many. To argue otherwise is to ignore the fact that 1000's of people have spent 100's of 1000's of dollars to make the Glock point more like a 1911. Some people make a living at doing just that, so yeah, the grip angle can be a problem.

It can be overcome with dedicated practice and or money, tho, so it's not insurmountable. If the Glock points well for you the first time you hold one, great! You just saved a lot of time and money.

The Glock pointed well for me the first time I held one. I didn't have any prior handgun experience.

It pointed well for my friend who shot it a couple months later. He shot three other guns as well (a bunch of us went to the range) and he was by far the most accurate with Glock. He had no prior handgun experience either.

That's two people for whom the grip angle on the Glock is not a problem. Also happened to be the only two people from the group who shot Glocks before shooting other handguns for years. The only reason the Glock grip would be unnatural for someone without prior experience with other firearms is if it was forcing them into an unnatural stance, e.g. raising arm too high or too low. But this isn't the case. There's just not that much difference between Glock grip angle and 1911 grip angle to actually cause ergonomic issues in an average human.

I honestly think that for the majority of people, the problem with Glock grip is like a problem with driving on the left side of the road. If you grew up in the States or in continental Europe, it feels unnatural. If you're from England or Japan, it feels normal. If you never drove before, it would make no difference.

 

[amd6547]

Some people just like to complain.
Another pistol many say has a poor grip angle is the Tokarev. Like the Glock
, my Tokarev points like a finger for me.

 

[David E]

As has been stated numerous times, the folks that don't have an issue with the Glock grip typically have no prior handgun experience.

As for people who just "like to complain," I could respond to that condescending remark with "and some people have no experience, have never taught classes, never shot at speed, never competed at a high level, much less won their division with a Glock..." but I won't...

It's not a complaint that the Glock points high for some people at speed, it's just a statement of fact.

 

[Wanderling]

Some people just like to complain.
Another pistol many say has a poor grip angle is the Tokarev. Like the Glock
, my Tokarev points like a finger for me.

Look at my original post about 8 above, TT is the gun I used as an example of another atypical grip angle. Great minds think alike

TT didn't seem to hinder the shooting ability of millions of Eastern Block, Chinese and Egyptian military and police personnel. Luger didn't seem to be a problem for the German army, actually from what I read they pretty much universally despised Walther P38 when it arrived as the replacement (they used to jokingly call it "Lightning" implying it couldn't usually hit the same man twice). I think in the globalized and heavily commercialized post war market the majority of gun manufacturers just went with the most common grip angle so that the guns would appeal to most potential clients who already formed their preferences.

 

[Hamburger]

The famous Glock grip angle is obviously a problem for many. To argue otherwise is to ignore the fact that 1000's of people have spent 100's of 1000's of dollars to make the Glock point more like a 1911. Some people make a living at doing just that, so yeah, the grip angle can be a problem.

Speak to boxers and martial artists. The "grip angle", whether you have a gun in your hand or bare fist offers the greatest wrist support by lining up you pointer and middle finger metacarpals.

But everyone has their own preference, like sidewayz gansta style.

 

[amd6547]

"...As has been stated numerous times, the folks that don't have an issue with the Glock grip typically have no prior handgun experience.

As for people who just "like to complain," I could respond to that condescending remark with "and some people have no experience, have never taught classes, never shot at speed, never competed at a high level, much less won their division with a Glock..." but I won't..."
-DavidE
I am 54, and I have been shooting since I was 5. I have owned handguns from all the major manufacturers and a lot of minor ones. Lots and lots of time with the 1911 and HiPower in my belt. First go round with the Glock was about 20yrs ago, a G23...I didn't care too much for it, but appreciated its weight and corrosion resistance. Traded it for a Ballester Molina 45. I thought I was thru with Glock.
Two years ago, I was looking for a compact 45 for carry. The compact 1911's had mixed reviews...and I wanted a pistol which was ready to go out of the box...no work to feed JHP, no manufacturers recommendation to shoot 110's of rounds to break it in...I read about the Glock 30.
I found one near me used like new for a bargain price and bought it, figuring I could sell it if I didn't like it. Turned out I shot it as well as a full sized 1911... Maybe better.
That started me back on the Glock trail.
I never gave the Glock grip angle a thought. After years of various SA autos and S&W revolvers, the Glock felt just fine in my hand.

All I really care about is that the platform is reliable and capable of the accuracy I need.

Nope...I never taught classes or felt the need to compete...and really don't feel the need to be taught by what seems to be an esoteric fussbudget. I took my SD needs seriously and spent my education budget on ammo and range fees. The rest of the time I was working.

 

[David E]

. Nope...I never taught classes or felt the need to compete....

Then you only have your own "experience," limited as it is, to base your opinion on.

.and really don't feel the need to be taught by what seems to be an esoteric fussbudget

That's good for the rest of the class. I've had students like you in my classes before and unlike everyone else who came to learn, they simply refuse to "get it." Invariably, they fall further and further behind as the rest of the class progresses. Afterwards, they bitch about the instructor behind his back. Yeah, maybe you're right, some people just like to complain...

I'm glad you like your Glock.

 

[amd6547]

I like my Glock(s), I like my K-frames, I like just about anything Browning. I have owned or own them all in my 50yr "limited" experience. They all point well for me.
The worst teachers drip with condescension and inflict upon their students their over opinionated superiority complex...there has been much of that on display in this thread.
I will leave it to the readers to decide who the guilty party is.

 

[Hangingrock]

The first time I fired a 1911A1 was 1964 at Parris Island and the first time I fired a Glock was in the late nineteen- nineties. I didn’t have a problem with the grip angle of the Glock with three plus decades of using 1911 style pistols primarily.

Weekly range sessions incorporate the use of both previously mentioned pistols. Maybe some people are more adaptive to variables related to differences in firearms and adjust apparently seamlessly.

 

[1SOW]

Ever been to England?
Driving on the left side of the road is no different from driving on the right side, unless you have yeeeaars of driving on the right experience.
You can adapt, but in bad situation your "instincts/habits/muscle memory" may cause trouble.
It's a fine pistol, but it is butt ugly!