Glock grip angle - no flaming please !

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I'm curious, when you point with your shooting hand (arm straight) is your wrist straight or cocked up at an angle? When I point my finger at an object, open my hand and place my Glock in it, I find that I'm still pointing at the object.

When I do the same drill with other handguns I find that the gun is pointing downwards. Anyone else try this?
 
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I used to do that until I started shooting 1911.

The Glock does point more "pointy" than the 1911 with me, but I like the angle a bit steeper for recoil management purposes.
 
What does "Accuracy is 100%" mean, for you? What is an "accurate" shot at those distances?
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As I said, my goal with the first shot is a torso hit and considering the size of the human body and the distances involved, I don't consider that to be at all exceptional. It can be done with aimed fire using sights to align the bore on target, and I am not firing without aiming, I'm just using something other than the sights to align the bore on target—that something being the ability to point my finger at what I am looking at. This is something I have been able to do all my life. I didn't consciously learn it, and I don't know how to teach it to someone who can't do it. To translate pointing a finger to point-aiming a gun, you have to learn to grip the gun so that it points as naturally as your finger.

This is what makes grips and different grip angles important to me. Acquiring a sight picture overcomes any problem caused by a difference in grip or grip angle or the grip being off, but it takes a little bit more time, time I may not have at close ranges, and sight acquisition is more difficult in low light, and even more so If I don't have my glasses which is a possibility in any SD situation. I don't have to see a shirt button in the center of a chest for my mind to know where that button is and point at it. I have practiced shooting both with my eyes closed and looking away from the target and point-aiming where I visualize the target as being with acceptable accuracy out to 7yds. There is nothing exceptional about it. All it requires is aiming with acceptable accuracy. I just don't use the sights to aim at distances where speed is equally or more important.
 
I'm curious, when you point with your shooting hand (arm straight) is your wrist straight or cocked up at an angle? When I point my finger at an object, open my hand and place my Glock in it, I find that I'm still pointing at the object.
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I'm not sure what you are asking here. But I just happened to be looking into this on Monday. I put 100 rounds through a Glock 19, paying particular attention to the grip, grip angle and pointability of the pistol. It points high for me (as described below), and the grip frame is too wide for my hand to maintain a consistent grip, but aimed fire using the sights was very accurate and except for having to constantly adjust my grip, there were no problems.

When I point my index finger at a target with arm extended, my index finger is in line with my arm as is the bottom line of my hand. When I place a 1911 in my hand, the barrel is in line with my index finger and points at the target . If I place a Glock in my hand, with the top of the backstrap tight in the web of my hand, the barrel is pointing above the target. I have to break my wrist downward sligtly to bring the barrel on target. If I take the Glock out of my hand at this point, my index finger is pointing slightly below the target as is the bottom line of my hand. Neither are inline my arm.
 
One thing this thread illustrates is that folks have different hands, forearms and grips.

"Natural pointer" simply means that to many people it feels "about right". None of us come from the womb carrying pistols, tennis rackets, fishing poles or anything else (our mothers objected strenuously enough to our emerging butt naked) so none of it is "natural".

For me Glocks point and shoot low. I have to make a conscious effort to cock my wrist upward, quite un-naturally, to raise the barrel. I shoot them as well as anything else when I use the sights. But they are by no means "natural" for me.

S&W revolvers, 1911's the BHP, the Colt SAA and Ruger single actions, all point "naturally" for me.

Your mileage will definately vary.

tipoc
 
At one of the IDPA-type matches I ran a couple of years ago, I set one stage up as a simple "blind" stage. You stood 7 yards in front of the target, closed your eyes, then drew and fired 6 shots on the buzzer.

NOBODY, out of about 20 people using every brand and type of pistol you can think of, got any kind of consistent decent hits on the target. No one had ANYTHING that even looked like a group, they were all like various numbers of holes poked randomly around the target if they were lucky.

"Natural" pointing with a handgun? Good luck!
 
At one of the IDPA-type matches I ran a couple of years ago, I set one stage up as a simple "blind" stage. You stood 7 yards in front of the target, closed your eyes, then drew and fired 6 shots on the buzzer.
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Wish I had been there. Sounds like fun. Was there a prize?
 
That does sound interesting. I'll have to try it Friday in a action bay. If I'm not too embarrassed, I may even offer it as a stage at our IDPA match
 
I would still like to know why there are no threads about the grip angle of Colt Woodsman .22's and Ruger Mk series .22's.
 
I would still like to know why there are no threads about the grip angle of Colt Woodsman .22's and Ruger Mk series .22's.
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Probably because nobody carries these for self defense which is where most of the focus seems to be these days.
 
Handgun fit is highly personnal. In shoot Glock's, 1911's, S&W M&P's and revolvers in the usual pistol games. I prefer the ergonomics of the S&W99 but adapt quite readilly to the European style angled Glock grip. For a number of years I shot bullseye pistol with Pardini pistols which had similar grip angles.
 
You must be an exceptional shooter.
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Agreed, and with a practice schedule like that, it's not terribly surprising. 15-16 thousand rounds of practice a year, done right, should garner some fairly impressive results.
When I point my index finger at a target with arm extended, my index finger is in line with my arm as is the bottom line of my hand. When I place a 1911 in my hand, the barrel is in line with my index finger and points at the target .
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I get those results, but with a typical 2nd/3rd Gen Glock. It's one of the reasons I overcame my (initially considerable) distaste for plastic guns.

Just goes to show that different things work for different folks.
At one of the IDPA-type matches I ran a couple of years ago, I set one stage up as a simple "blind" stage. You stood 7 yards in front of the target, closed your eyes, then drew and fired 6 shots on the buzzer.
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That's one of the exercises I run fairly frequently in dryfire. Look at a target, close my eyes, bring the gun up, dryfire and then open my eyes to see if the sights are aligned properly and on target.
 
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MicroTecniqs said:
Probably because nobody carries these for self defense which is where most of the focus seems to be these days.
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Which is a wee bit sad. Remember the days when we used to go to the range? Turkey shoots? Now, everything is about how fast you can shoot through an entire mag, hit nothing, and have the best gun possible to kill a BG. Don't get me wrong, better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. But, I make sure to have my fun guns too.
 
barstoolguru said:
isn't this an Oxymoron?
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Liking a gun doesn't make you a brand's fanboy. Bashing all other makes & blindly praising your make of choice does.

I don't know exactly what my next one would be, but it's equally likely to be a G26, M&P Shield, Ruger SR9C, CZ75 PCR Compact, or one of the Mak flavors (Mak or CZ82). Depends on the mood and time of the day. Right now I am leaning more towards M&P. (Obviously there's no reason to even discuss grip angle in case of G26 ;) ) But that said, I still love my G17, it may be just a bit too big for EDC in my particular case.
 
mrmustard, Part of my point is that, as said earlier by someone, proper use of sights can overcome grip angle and the Buckmark, Woodsman, and Ruger Mk1 are most likely to be used in deliberate aimed fire, using sights. When you can take your time to acquire a sight picture and align your sights, you are less likely to notice the impact of the the grip on this process. When you need to acquire the sight picture quickly, you are more likely to notice whether or not the grip assists or detracts from this.

And yes, turkeys, targets and metallic silhouettes used to be the thing. 30 years ago, I often felt out of place trying to practice tactical SD shooting. Now I am just amazed at the number of people that are managing 10" groups at 3 yards. But, they can do it in less than 10 seconds. :banghead:
 
the Buckmark, Woodsman, and Ruger Mk1 are most likely to be used in deliberate aimed fire, using sights.
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What color is the sky in your world?

You have people using the sights and delibrately target shooting .22's, while you're blasting the bullseye at 20 yards 100% of the time without using the sights!

I've only been around the country a few times, but everywhere I've been it's been people blasting away with .22's cause the ammo's cheap, while the serious SD shooters are using a flash sight picture at 20 yards. :eek:

We usually shoot 3 or 4 pistol matches in Dallas/Ft. Worth every year, I'll PM you next time I'm coming over and you can give me lessons on 20 yard point shooting.
 
We usually shoot 3 or 4 pistol matches in Dallas/Ft. Worth every year, I'll PM you next time I'm coming over and you can give me lessons on 20 yard point shooting.
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I'd be happy to go to the range with you, but I've already said i don't know how to teach someone to point if they don't already know how. ;)

(And I can't hit 100% at 20 yards. Never said I could)
 
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