Glock & Sigma - (here we go again...:)

[Fat Boy]

I have read about the "perfection" of Glock's;

I have read how they are almost indestructible, having been frozen, filled with all manner of stuff, dropped from significant heights, run over by trucks, and so forth, still shooting after these rough treatments

I have read about glocks shooting thousands upon thousands of rounds and continuing to function after all this usage

MY QUESTION:

Will the Sigma, which in the understanding of some is a copy of the Glock, match this performance? (some writer's have seemed to indicate that it will not- in fact the Sigma is in some estimations "junk")

IF NOT, WHY NOT? (Please be specific with answers; like the polymer in a Sigma is this vs. a Glock which is that, therefore the Sigma will break sooner, the spring quality in the Sigma is terrible, etc....)

I am trying to understand why, if in fact this is the case, a Glock will run forever in spite of horrendous abuse and a Sigma will not

Thank you for putting up with another one of these posts....

 

[MasterAtArms]

the newer sigma 9mm SW9VE will match and exxced the performance of the glock in fact glock sued S&W because what they initaly did was make a better glock i am US navy Police officer and while we use beretta 9mms civilian police use glocks where i live and are in a dissucusion as to wheather or not change to the sugma because the performance is so much better

 

[mgmorden]

Sigmas apparently had a lot of issues initially, and there was also a "Sigma Micro" that was of a slightly different design that trully was bad (as in Jennings bad from what a lot of people say). A lot of people still associate a stigma with the Sigma name over that (hey that rhymes ).

Apparently the newer ones have had the reliability issues worked out. Most people only complain about the trigger pull which is long, heavy, and reported somewhat gritty. Also, the Glock has metal inserts/supports added into the frame which the slide rides on, while on the Sigma
the slide rides on the polymer frame itself. This has led to some thoughts that the Sigma might not hold up as long.

I've never shot a Sigma before (have come darned close to buying one with the current rebates going though), and have only fired a Glock once, but personally, based on user reviews I wouldn't mind going with the Sigma. Apparently a whole boatload of them were just purchased for use by the new Afghani armed forces, so they've been deployed in at least 1 military now.

Personally I've just never gotten the Glock worship though. I can accept that they're good guns, but there are plenty of OTHER good guns out there too.

 

[bearmgc]

sW has to still overcome the abomination of their earlier production Sigma's. This is something many of us older farts remember with disdain, when at a time SW needed to get some decent priced new product, they put out the most inadequate, throwawy semi auto ever. I had one that after about 100 rounds, literally fell apart in my hands, the internals were crumbling. This new Sigma will have to truly perform well for years, to change a lot of minds. I would think for department use, wiser to go with something already proven to last.

 

[SleazyRider]

This is a very timely thread, as the $50.00 rebate S&W offers is about to expire on April 1st, and I've got to admit it's been calling me. Bud's is selling the Sigmas for $339.00, delivered; the final cost of the gun would be about $290.00. That ain't bad for a .40 or a 9mm. Bud's is getting $494.00, delivered, for the same calibers in a Glock.

So is the Glock worth $204.00 more? Well, I'm not sure, which is why I'm subscribed to this thread. I know I took a chance on the S&W i-bolt rifle in .30-06 despite, some negative ink on the forums, and it's about as fine a rifle as I've ever owned, easily on par with my Kimber or Weatherby. It's my "go to" rifle that I take hunting with me. But I digress.

Maybe the Sigma will become my "go to" .40 or 9.

 

[Miked7762]

Also, the Glock has metal inserts/supports added into the frame which the slide rides on, while on the Sigma the slide rides on the polymer frame itself.

The Sigma has rails exactly like the Glock does, it doesn't ride on the polymer.

 

[mgmorden]

The Sigma has rails exactly like the Glock does, it doesn't ride on the polymer.

Hmm. Must have heard wrong. If that's the case and the reliability problems have indeed been worked out, we might very well be down to just a better trigger on the Glock.

 

[NG VI]

The biggest differences between a Glock and a Sigma are the trigger (huge difference), the finish, the grip, and the fact that Glocks come in different sizes.

 

[wild cat mccane]

The finish is the same isn't it?

Stainless or the melowhatever.

 

[NG VI]

No, they are stainless or stainless with some black coating. Melonite is similiar to Tennifer, but isn't used on Sigmas.

 

[wild cat mccane]

Finish is the same. "Allied Force" Sigma has Melonite coating.

All 3 finishes, tiffener, Melonite, and another are the same, using different names.

So if you have a black colored slide and barrel, you have the same treatment the Glock has.

Exact same.

 

[NG VI]

huh, neat, I didn't realize the Allied Forces version was Melonited, thought it was just a black coating.

 

[wild cat mccane]

i didn't either.

Then I read how the Sigma had a better finish than all older XD's.

That should catch some attention. Now all XD's have the better finish, but they didn't before. The cheapy Sigma did.

 

[roaddog28]

The issues with the early Sigmas are all but gone. The VE series whether 9mm or 40SW are very reliable, need little care and rugged. Does that sound like a Glock?. Really the only difference I know of is the trigger. The trigger pull on a Glock is around 5 to 5 1/2 pounds. The Sigma will be 8 or more and is a longer heavier pull. In my humble opinion the Sigma is a safer pistol. I have a SW40VE. I like the trigger. Now I am also a double action revolver person. To me the trigger is not a problem. As history shows the Glocks have had accidental discharges. I don't blame the gun. But people that are not as careful handling a gun might have problems with the Glock because of the lighter trigger and pull. The Sigma is almost like having a double action revolver. The heavier and longer pull will be safer especially when there is less than ideal gun safetely practices. And I have question myself whether the Glock is worth over $200.00 more than a Sigma.

My opinion only,
roaddog28

 

[cskny]

These are all very good and fair posts.

The newer sigma design is really close to the glock and they really did work out a lot of the past problems I know they had. When you open the two up next to each other, it's surprising. Parts almost look like they could jump between them.

Trigger is different. Glock is smoother and lighter, no question. But, if you're at all handy and so inclined, there are a few VERY easy things you can do in the Sigma trigger/sear assembly to change it. But, that's up to you.

 

[KevinR]

I own a Sigma .40sw The two things that I dont like about the Sigma are the trigger and the front sight.

I have looked at the Glock and I can almost guarantee that the Glock plastic frame has more fiberglass in the resin that it is made from.

When the slide is removed from the Sigma the frame is flexible right above the grip. These guns are made of Nylon and when the compound is loaded with fiberglass some of the properties become stronger, more rigid.
The Glock is more rigid, I dont know where to get a frame from each gun. But if I could get a section of each frame I could take up to my lab and tell everyone the composition of each guns frame. FYI-The frames would be destroyed.

 

[smince]

in fact glock sued S&W because what they initaly did was make a better glock

Actually, Glock sued because the Sigma was such a close copy, Glock parts would interchange.

When the Sigma has the longevity and parts availability of the Glock, let me know...

 

[Kingofthehill]

you can say that if they were priced the same. but you can get a Sigma at half the price of a glock.

So you have to take that into consideration. IF the Sigma had the "Longevity, parts and availability of the glock" then the price would be closer to the glock as well.

I have 4 Sigma's right now. I have bought and sold i think 4 others as well. They are fine gun's for the money. The price point is where they excel. If the Sigma was 450, then NOPE, no way would i buy one. Now since out of the 4 i own, the most i paid was $225 and a box of .45 ammo, I enjoy them because of it.

They have been dependable for me, the highest round count i own is 5,100 and its been flawless in the 4,800 ive owned of it.

All 4 now have trigger work. 2 by S&W which brought them down to 6lbs, and the free trigger job (second spring removal) that brought them down to 5.2lbs.

Its funny, i don't like the front sight on the Sigma but i also don't like the rear sight on the glock. hahahaha..

JOe

 

[cskny]

When the slide is removed from the Sigma the frame is flexible right above the grip. These guns are made of Nylon and when the compound is loaded with fiberglass some of the properties become stronger, more rigid.
The Glock is more rigid, I dont know where to get a frame from each gun. But if I could get a section of each frame I could take up to my lab and tell everyone the composition of each guns frame. FYI-The frames would be destroyed.



That would be really neat to see the makeup. Common sense tells you that they don't have the same frame makeup anyway, unless somehow they were sharing materials suppliers and/or mold designers/fabricators.

I don't have a clue necessarily what it translates to in the real world, but I would be interested to see the actual materials used and the differences.

Of course, not interested enough to donate any of my frames

 

[wild cat mccane]

Rigidity: is used against the sigma here...

But here is an exact opposite.

You can actually bend the plastic on a Kahr easily, but you can't on a kel tec....

Food for thought

 

[BlayGlock]

Having shot numerous examples of both, I have found the Glock to have a nicer trigger. I dont know which would have a greater longevity, but I did find the glocks easier to shoot accurately.

Hope that helps.

 

[RobMoore]

People still buy sigmas?

 

[atlanticfire]

I have complained about the Sigma trigger before in the past but I have to defend it here. Despite its trigger I think its a very well built pistol. I would easily compare it to a glock, which I don't think are anything special. Currently I don’t own any plastic guns, so to me poly is poly what ever its compound.

 

[mljdeckard]

My Sigma certainly didn't. Worst handgun I have ever owned. Whenever someone is asking about them, I tell them to find a used Glock.

 

[atlanticfire]

Worst handgun I have ever owned

Could we ask why? Just currious.....