glocks and sig sauers

[9mmepiphany]

I am very curious If you carry a sig sauer but like and own both sig and glock, why do you trust your sig more and carry that instead of glock?

I used to carry a SIG as a duty weapon. I've carried a SIG 220/226/228/229/226R/229R at various times. While I have carried the 220 and 228 as an off-duty weapon, many times I'll carry a Glock 19 (2nd Gen) because it was lighter and the paddle holster it rides in is easier to slip on.

I do trust the SIG 228 more than the Glock G19...certainly more than my G22. Under stress, the longer DA trigger stroke leaves a wider margin for error about placement of the trigger finger. I'm also more accurate with the first DA trigger stroke and just as fast.

I usually teach with a 220ST or 226ST as the DA trigger is useful in over coming some students' tendency to snatch at the Glocks shorter trigger stroke. It is the same reason that I like the SIG DAK or Kahr trigger for carry over the Glock (I don't like the letoff of the H&K...too mushy)

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

I have a Glock 26 and a Sig 228. Love them both, plan to keep both. Different guns for different reasons. My future purchases will be the 239 with night sights, two tone and the Glock 19. I don't really need a reason, I just like both....

Laura

 

[sgt127]

chuckpro

They both have about the same trigger weight. A DAK, to me feels like a tuned DA revolver. Granted a Sig DAK is partially pre loaded when carried. But, maybe a quarter of the mainspring energy is stored. Through great leverage, and a longer trigger pull, you load up enough energy in the mainspring to fire it.

The Glock, on the other hand, has enough energy stored in the striker to fire a primer from "at rest". Without the slight rearward movement the trigger bar draws the striker back when you pull the trigger.

So, I consider a Glock "cocked" at rest. It's still an incredibly safe design. But, I just won't carry a gun like that pointed at me.

In a true DA gun, everything has to work right for the gun to fire. In a Glock, S&W MP or a 1911, everything has to work right for the gun not to fire. The sear cannot slip off, the firing pin safety must catch the firing pin etc.

Plus, with a DAK I can put my thumb on the hammer when I re holster and feel, through the hammer, if something catches on the trigger when I re holster.

 

[JDR]

I had a Sig P228 that I wish I could have kept. I have a P225 that is one of the best carry guns I've ever had. I also have a P226 .40 that is really good piece, but these days I'm liking 9mm and 45 ACP better than .40 S&W. But I think the lower bore axis on my three Glocks just work better for me, just like my 1911s and my BHP work for me. I took my Gen3 Glock 17 to the range last night, and I shot really well with it using cheap PPU 9mm FMJ ammo, the Glocks just shoot great with any ammo you feed them. Just my $0.02 on the subject!

 

[bannockburn]

Simply put my SIG P229R fits my hand better than my Glock 17.

 

[gc70]

I assume if you carry a sig you trust it more then a glock.

Trust? Reliability is one factor in choosing a carry gun, but not the only one.

How well a gun can be concealed and how comfortable it is to carry is a big factor.

A huge factor is how well a person can shoot one gun versus another.

 

[percussion]

gc70

You have very true and valid points.

Altho if everything you mentioned already exists and then some. then with say a glock 21 and a sig sauer p220 that basically leaves one deciding factor and that is which one do you trust day in and day out to protect you and you loved ones?

Thats kinda what I am going for here.

I carry a sig sauer now 90% of the time and yes it is my most trusted weapon.

I enjoy the 1911,glock and many more.

You know which one makes you feel more warm and fuzzy when you walk out the door. LOL

 

[ritepath]

What about the SR, XD, and M&P guys? Are they kidding themselves since they didn't choose a Glock?

Anyway;

For me it comes down to how thin and reliable the pistol is, not if it's hammer or striker fired. I used to be hung up on the wonderful trigger my 229 had and how squishy my g20 and M&P 9c triggers were. I now love the trigger on my new SR, and Shield. The shield needs a bit more tweeking to get it down a few pounds, but these triggers really shine when it comes to accuracy at the range. A few dollars and some easy "smithing" can get all striker fired guns down to where they're a pleasure to shoot.

I don't stuff guns down my pants, and carry pancake OWB so either trigger type works for me. I find the sig easier to take down and clean so I like that aspect over the glock. But really any of the 4 or 5 big manufactures disasssemble easily enough, I always clean from the comfort of my favorite chair so it's no big deal.

My future goal is a full sized M&P 45 or 9 and a 226 in 9, hopefully I can achieve that in 2014.

 

[Robbins290]

Precussion, it is a sao

 

[percussion]

Robbins 290

Thats what I thought. Nice guns I had one and it always made me want to carry one of 1911's when I shot it.

 

[chuckpro]

sgt127

Ok i see what your saying. I also prefer a hammer over a striker. I have only dry-fired the DAK at a LGS and it did feel like a very smooth revolver. I just purchased a p226 LEO trade in that is DAO i thought about converting it to DAK but it cost about twice the price in parts, and it has a mag disconnect. I don't care for the mag disconnect in a personal protection device so it will be a range toy and i went with the DA/SA.

 

[chuckpro]

It's my understanding that the DAK is a true DAO, and is not partially pre-cocked or pre-set at all.

No, in a DAk the hammer is cocked part way. A DAO is truly a double action with a 12lb trigger pull. From the information i have received from SIG the DAK also has a feature where the there are two resets in the trigger, one short and one that is the full reset. If you only let the trigger reset to the short one the trigger pull goes to 8lbs where if you let it reset to the full reset it is 5lbs. The reasoning being in a panic situation if you short stroke the trigger it will still go bang but you have a increased trigger weight for safety reasons. They have a better explanation on Sig's web sight.

The short reset thing doesn't make much sense to me and have not had any range time with a DAK

 

[9mmepiphany]

No, in a DAk the hammer is cocked part way. A DAO is truly a double action with a 12lb trigger pull. From the information i have received from SIG the DAK also has a feature where the there are two resets in the trigger, one short and one that is the full reset. If you only let the trigger reset to the short one the trigger pull goes to 8lbs where if you let it reset to the full reset it is 5lbs. The reasoning being in a panic situation if you short stroke the trigger it will still go bang but you have a increased trigger weight for safety reasons. They have a better explanation on Sig's web sight.

The short reset thing doesn't make much sense to me and have not had any range time with a DAK

It would make sense if you'd ever seen folks short stroke trigger...it was pretty common on revolvers.

The increased trigger weight has nothing to do with safety...although they might spin it that way...it has to do with the different geometry

 

[tipoc]

Of these two choices I prefer the Sig. The da/sa trigger is fine. I find them to be more accurate than the Glocks I've owned. I prefer a hammer over the trigger and striker of the Glock I prefer the option of a quick da shot at close range followed by the fine Sig sa trigger, or I can cock the hammer manually for a single action shot.

In fast action or a tussle I find the Sig safer than Glocks. Specifically Glocks are more likely than other firearms to have a ud while quickly holstering or in a struggle, or fall, where the trigger is unintentionally pulled, etc. This is because the safety is tied to a relatively light trigger pull. The da/sa Sig is less likely to have a ud in these circumstances than the Glock due to a longer da trigger pull and the options of decocking the gun or manually lowering the hammer from a cocked position.

No one talks about "Sig leg" or "M9 leg" as that type incident doesn't occur commonly enough with these guns for it to be given a name. But the term "Glock leg" came out of American law enforcement for a reason.

Saying that I'm usually with a sa gun. It's a matter of personal preference. But I also own a S&W M&P 9c that's growing on me. I think also that the G19 is one of the better utility guns around.

tipoc

 

[chuckpro]

9mmepiphany

I have seen short stroking with wheel guns and doubles with a short reset trigger. Sig makes it out to cure both allowing the short reset but with the increased trigger weight to keep from doubling. I agree it is probably just the geometry of the design.

I think both short stroking and doubling is something that should be fixed with training and not equipment design.

 

[HellTrain]

Simply put my SIG P229R fits my hand better than my Glock 17.

These two guns aren't in the same class size.

 

[2wheels]

No, in a DAk the hammer is cocked part way. A DAO is truly a double action with a 12lb trigger pull. From the information i have received from SIG the DAK also has a feature where the there are two resets in the trigger, one short and one that is the full reset. If you only let the trigger reset to the short one the trigger pull goes to 8lbs where if you let it reset to the full reset it is 5lbs. The reasoning being in a panic situation if you short stroke the trigger it will still go bang but you have a increased trigger weight for safety reasons. They have a better explanation on Sig's web sight.

The short reset thing doesn't make much sense to me and have not had any range time with a DAK

This is what I've read about Sig DAK, and it makes sense since the Sig does not need the slide to be racked in order to achieve that lighter trigger pull, so how can there be any pre-tension?

"when the SIG DAK is at rest, the mainspring is not compressed any more than it would be in a decocked DA/SA SIG. The lighter trigger pull is achieved solely through changes to the trigger bar and some other internal parts which allow greater leverage."

http://pistol-training.com/articles/hk-lem-vs-sig-dak

 

[sgt127]

On a DAK gun, the slide does need to be racked for the DAK trigger to set. If you get a dud, and pull the trigger again, it's "normal" heavier DA trigger.

You can also. Partially pull the trigger and release and the DAK will "set".

 

[Tomac]

I usually carry AIWB. With the muzzle pointing right at the femoral artery, I will *not* carry any pistol that isn't DA/SA, DAO or SA w/manual safety and the SIG's DA/SA w/external hammer is my preferred setup.
Plus, I'm w/Corporal Agarn. When the adrenaline starts pumping and fine motor control goes out the window, I want my first shot to be deliberate and not a stress-induced ND, hence my preference for DA/SA (YMMV).
Tomac

 

[9mmepiphany]

On a DAK gun, (1)the slide does need to be racked for the DAK trigger to set. If you get a dud, and pull the trigger again, it's "normal" heavier DA trigger.

You can also. (2)Partially pull the trigger and release and the DAK will "set".

You might note that these two statements contradict each other.

If (1) than (2) would be true. (2) would only be consistent with (1) if pulling the trigger also racked the slide.

For those who weren't around when the DAK first came out and was the subject of long technical discussions on forums:

Racking the slide does set the DAK's lighter trigger stroke, but it doesn't do it by leaving the hammer partially cocked. The hammer and mainspring are completely at rest. The DAK primary (lighter) trigger stroke has to do with the internal geometry.

 

[Elkins45]

I just receltly picked up another P220, this one with DAK trigger. One of the reasons I like the DAO design for a SD gun is just self-awareness: if I'm ever in a situation where I am drawing a gun in self defense I know I will be so charged up with adrenaline that a light trigger will seem like no trigger at all. I want some "awareness time" between touching the trigger and discharging the shot just in case the decision to shoot changed in that instant.

I know the gun world is filled with icy cool guys whose 1911 carry guns have 3lb triggers, but I'm honest enough with myself to realize I'm not one of them. If I'm ever involved in a gunfight I'm likely to need some Pampers wipes and a new pair of pants once its all over, if not a bottle of nitroglycerine tablets and a syringe full of Valium.

I shoot a DA trigger well enough for combat distances, and it makes me feel better. That's another reason I lean more toward Sig.

 

[chuckpro]

2wheels

Thanks for the link it explains some of the things i didn't quit understand about the DAK. My armorers manual and training was before the DAK's were introduced and have just recently been reading about it. I have always compared it to the HK LEM which i am very familiar with. I have been looking for a p228 (older style) in DA/SA but maybe a DAK is in my future.

 

[Plan2Live]

What i think is funny is that the sig 239 has been mentioned in this thread. It is a large firearm for the capacity

Can't argue with that. Now, imagine all those discarded 1911s once their owners figure out they are only carrying 7 or 8 rounds in those large frames! I'll bet Les Baer, Wilson Combat, Kimber and all the other 1911 manufacturers are shaking in their boots about now.

 

[sgt127]

Originally Posted by sgt127
On a DAK gun, (1)the slide does need to be racked for the DAK trigger to set. If you get a dud, and pull the trigger again, it's "normal" heavier DA trigger.

You can also. (2)Partially pull the trigger and release and the DAK will "set".
You might note that these two statements contradict each other.

If (1) than (2) would be true. (2) would only be consistent with (1) if pulling the trigger also racked the slide.

For those who weren't around when the DAK first came out and was the subject of long technical discussions on forums:

Racking the slide does set the DAK's lighter trigger stroke, but it doesn't do it by leaving the hammer partially cocked. The hammer and mainspring are completely at rest. The DAK primary (lighter) trigger stroke has to do with the internal geometry.

9mmepiphany,

What am I missing here?

This is a P239 I just pulled out of my waistband.
This is the position of the hammer when you pull the trigger and it falls:







And, after racking the slide:



You can also pull the trigger back about a quarter of an inch, the hammer will come back and the sear will catch it. It's then reset into DAK mode.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The position of any SIG hammer when dropped by the sear is always lower...because it is resting against the back of the firing pin...than when either decocked, via the decocking lever, (DA/SA) or cycled by racking the slide (DAO/DAK). This position has the hammer resting on the safety intercept.

This is the position that SIG considers the normal carry position. SIG advises against lowering the hammer, on a DA/SA pistol, by pulling the trigger and lower the hammer to rest against the firing pin.

When you pull the trigger back that extra quarter inch, to set the DAK, doesn't it return to this same position?