Got pulled over; Officer took my sidearm.

[brboyer]

Now you're splitting hairs Deanimator. Let's go ahead and make you feel a little better and recognize that the right pre-existed as all the rights of the Bill of Rights.

Does the 2nd amendment exist without limitation? That is the real question. My attempt at getting the discussion to a more productive one seems to elude you.

I'll answer...."Shall not be infringed"

Seems self explanatory to me.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

there are more if you need em

 

[brboyer]

Brboyer:I read a story recently where this guy went into a convenience store and was really pleasant and professional while robbing it, kept apologizing for doing it, said he lost his job, "sorry", wife left him, "sorry", don't push that alarm button, "sorry", I can't go to jail - BANG, "sorry", I can't go to jail, did not mean to kill you. Gets arrested a few days later.

What does my story have to do with your story?

Both have a criminal that went home safe at the end of the day!

did you just insinuate that I am a "criminal", or did something wrong in any of my posted scenarios? I am just wanting some clarification here.

Still 2 Many Choices!?

No, I'm talking about the other person in your story.

 

[dpeticca]

BrBoyer,

I don't know what is so special about those places. I for one would like to see some clarity on that in this June's supreme court decision. I am reminded that in Heller vs D.C., that Scalia (writing for the majority) didn't contest that the 2nd amendment exists without limitations, and mentioned those places as reasonable curtails of the right.

I could never understand why I couldn't go to a federal park or a post office w/o a firearm myself.

 

[brboyer]

They're full of little people most of us call children.

OK, and again, what makes them special - deserving of restrictions on carrying of weapons by adults?

See, I also do not understand some of your posts.

 

[hunto]

Why can't I bring my AK to the courtroom? Or into the White House?

 

[Still 2 Many Choices!?]

I don't know what your problem is with me brboyer, but you seem to has a flaw in your critical thinking, or reasoning ability.

In each scenario posted I have complied with officers, and armed or disarmed, it is not my practice to argue with officers, unles they are off-duty friends of mine, lol.

You see, arguing the law, with a person empowered to enforce the law, is a losing battle one way(you are right and go to jail for it but, are proven right in court), or the other(you are wrong and go to jail for it, and are proven wrong in court)!

YMMV, IANAL, KISS

Still 2 Many Choices!?

 

[brboyer]

Why can't I bring my AK to the courtroom? Or into the White House?

Because the government has unconstitutionally infringed on your right to keep and bear arms.

 

[Deanimator]

there are more if you need em

I could line up corresponding murders and other felonies committed by cops, on and off duty.

Show me a Thompson and I'll show you a Bobby Cutts, Jr., a Drew Peterson or an Alvin Weems.

If a trivial number of crimes committed by those with CCW credentials justifies violating the rights of those who don't commit crimes, then similar crimes by police justify similar treatment of police.

Or are you going to argue that unlike a CCW credential, a badge guarantees that somebody's a "good guy"?

 

[hunto]

Because the government has unconstitutionally infringed on your right to keep and bear arms.

funny

 

[Deanimator]

You see, arguing the law, with a person empowered to enforce the law, is a losing battle one way

If he's wrong, I correct him.

If he WANTS to be wrong, then it's time go after him administratively and in the civil courts.

I don't owe it to ANYBODY to let them violate my rights with impunity.

 

[dpeticca]

"I'll answer...."Shall not be infringed"

Seems self explanatory to me."

Brboyer, I'm surprised you have internet under neath that rock you're living under. How on earth do you come to the conclusion that convicted felons should be allowed to own firearms?

I'm really interested to know.

 

[brboyer]

I don't know what your problem is with me brboyer, but you seem to has a flaw in your critical thinking, or reasoning ability.

In each scenario posted I have complied with officers, and armed or disarmed, it is not my practice to argue with officers, unles they are off-duty friends of mine, lol.

You see, arguing the law, with a person empowered to enforce the law, is a losing battle one way(you are right and go to jail for it but, are proven right in court), or the other(you are wrong and go to jail for it, and are proven wrong in court)!

YMMV, IANAL, KISS

Still 2 Many Choices!?

I have no problem with you, at all. WOW! Where did that come from?

If you are OK with your rights being violated or are unwilling/unable to do something about it, go right ahead. No skin off my nose. But do understand that the more we ignore such behavior the more it will continue.

 

[Deanimator]

You ask for the obvious to be explained in greater and greater detail, claiming lack of understanding.

Maybe it's NOT "obvious".

Calling an obtuse statement "obvious" doesn't make it any less obtuse. It just adds a lack of candor to the situation.

 

[Still 2 Many Choices!?]

Ok thanks for the clarification. It's early, maybe my reading and comprehension skills are the ones that need work, lol. That said, I fully stand by the Platinum rule(one above the Gold Rule)! You can beat the rap, but you'll take the ride when it comes to pissing off empowered people.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/gym-shooting-proves-concealed-permit-holders-do-kill

CHICAGO – Yet another concealed weapons permit holder and “legal” gun owner, George Sodini, with no prior criminal record, committed mass murder. On the evening of Aug. 4, Sodini attacked an aerobics class at the LA Fitness gym outside Pittsburgh where he used three handguns, two of which used high-capacity ammunition magazines that could hold up to 30 rounds, to gun down three women and wound nine others before killing himself.

got a couple cop mass murderers to ante deanimator

 

[TexasRifleman]

n fact, not a single incident has been shown to demonstrate that.

this is the latest in a long line of fail statements but it does sound good

No, up until you posted one there have been none in this thread. Now there is one.

CHICAGO – Yet another concealed weapons permit holder and “legal” gun owner, George Sodini, with no prior criminal record, committed mass murder. On the evening of Aug. 4, Sodini attacked an aerobics class at the LA Fitness gym outside Pittsburgh where he used three handguns, two of which used high-capacity ammunition magazines that could hold up to 30 rounds, to gun down three women and wound nine others before killing himself.

But you went from being on solid footing to slippery. No one has argued that permit holders never commit crimes, the argument is that police, AFTER learning of a concealed permit holders status, are statistically extremely safe from being shot, so disarming a legal permit holder isn't really a safety issue. It's more than likely some kind of harrassment. You found one incident. Out of how many police stops in a year?

To justify the disarming of permit holders at every traffic stop because of 1 or even a handful of incidents is the point, that's simply not enough reason. Statistically cops are safer dealing with permit holders than any other type of citizen, and you can't really argue otherwise. In 3 of these threads I've asked for incidents and you are the first person to find one.

If you are arguing that police have the right to do anything they need to in the name of safety why do police leave people in their cars? Cars kill many more police at traffic stops each year than guns. But that doesn't happen so there must be more to it than simply "officer safety".

got a couple cop mass murderers to ante deanimator

That's not a good game to play, we can find bad guys all day long.... really has nothing to do with the point here.

NEW YORK, Sept. 26 (UPI) _ An entire family has been massacred in
Orange County, N.Y., and police there say the man responsible for the
bloodbath was a New York City police officer.

It happened last night in the town of Greenville.

Police say they received a 911 call from a 7-year-old girl who told
them that her father was assaulting her mother.

Ashley Fitzgerald's call was cut short, however, when her father
disconnected the phone and then fatally shot the entire family

An off duty Sheriffs deputy Tyler Peterson opened fire at a party in this house inCrandon Wis. Killing six and injuring another ending with a sniper shooting and killing Peterson. This was the High Schools Homecoming weekend the group of students grather for pizza and a movie.

There will be more police officers that commit murder than concealed permit holders I suspect, or at least as many. By your argument I should fear the police any time they interact with me correct?

 

[hunto]

Calling an obtuse statement "obvious" doesn't make it any less obtuse. It just adds a lack of candor to the situation.

So I'm supposed to explain why the majority of parents do NOT want guns around schools? Why it was made law, the restriction and prohibitive distances??

Gee, maybe it's that parents feel their children are safer with no guns present in the school, or that the presence of guns is a greater danger than their absence.

I'm sure you will argue every word of this.

 

[hunto]

Future exchanges with Deanimator:

me- "It's nighttime."
D- "Not everywhere. In some places it's broad daylight."
me- *sigh*

me- "It's so quiet today."
D- "Not really. If you listen there's all sorts of noises."
me- *sigh*

me- "There's nothing to eat."
D- "Yes there is. There's always food if you look for it."

me- "It's ___________."
D- "Not really. It's _______ _________."
me- *sigh*

 

[brboyer]

"I'll answer...."Shall not be infringed"

Seems self explanatory to me."

Brboyer, I'm surprised you have internet under neath that rock you're living under. How on earth do you come to the conclusion that convicted felons should be allowed to own firearms?

I'm really interested to know.

If they are too dangerous to own/possess firearms, they are too dangerous to be out of prison. Simple as that. Oh and crazy people used to stay locked up too, but that is not PC nowadays!

Do you have any idea how many stupid felonies exist? Penny ante poker games with your buddies, shipping Orchards without some special permit, taking one extra Blue Crab, there are thousands!

 

[Deanimator]

got a couple cop mass murderers to ante deanimator

So, having been refuted, you now move the goalposts to "mass murderers". In fact, I can think of several, including a cop who shot up a party at a house with, I believe, an M4. I think it was discussed here at the time. I think it was maybe three years ago.

Then there's the South Korean cop who, after a dispute with his wife, secured an M2 Carbine, his revolver and a bag of grenades. He drove around rural areas grenading and shooting farm families. That happened right after I got back from Korea in '81. "Fortunately", none of the victims had the means to defend themselves or their children... you know, like in Chicago?

Other cops have at various times killed their wives and children, then themselves. I seem to recall at least one last year.

"Mass" enough for you?

So, what legal rights of police officers do those acts justify abridging?

 

[hunto]

If they are too dangerous to own/possess firearms, they are too dangerous to be out of prison. Simple as that. Oh and crazy people used to stay locked up too, but that is not PC nowadays!

Do you have any idea how many stupid felonies exist? Penny ante poker games with your buddies, shipping Orchards without some special permit, taking one extra Blue Crab, there are thousands!

So let's be clear here, you ARE in favor of felons owning handguns?
That's weak on crime.
Liberal.

 

[Deanimator]

Future exchanges with Deanimator:

...will consist mostly of me refuting your fallacious or overbroad statements and you changing the subject.

 

[hunto]

...will consist mostly of me refuting your fallacious or overbroad statements and you changing the subject.

me- "It's ___________."
D- "Not really. It's _______ _________."

Like when you said "No one should ever talk to police ever?"

 

[brboyer]

So I'm supposed to explain why the majority of parents do NOT want guns around schools? Why it was made law, the restriction and prohibitive distances??

Gee, maybe it's that parents feel their children are safer with no guns present in the school, or that the presence of guns is a greater danger than their absence.

I'm sure you will argue every word of this.

So parents feel better, OK that make sense:banghead:

All those school mass murders, I suppose the parents feel great that guns are not allowed in schools.