Deanimator
Member
Have you asked Diane Feinstein and Carl Rowan about that?
Got pulled over; Officer took my sidearm.
- Thread starter Magic_Man
- Start date
- Status
Still 2 Many Choices!?
Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2006
- Messages
- 455
I live in Texas(must inform state), and have been disarmed in every legally armed encounter with officers(4by my count).
Situation 1. I had just received my TXCHL when I was driving home and was pulled over for a simple traffic violation(rolling stop or running a yellow light). I was carrying a since long gone, Taurus PT-145 in holster at 3:30 on my hip, and it was around 9:00pm. Upon my informing, the officer had me leave my vehicle, place my hands on the top of my car, and disarmed me. After running my information( the basics, and my gun for being stolen!?), I was let off with a warning. The officer was polite as he placed my slide-locked firearm, the magazine, and the previously chambered round, on the roof of my car, and simply asked" Please don't load it until I leave". So I did just that. After he was on his way I reloaded the round manually to the chamber, returned the magazine to it's home , reholstered, and went about my merry way, thinking "I can't believe I just loaded a gun on the bussiest street in the little town. Beside the embarresed feeling of having my hands on he car as people drove by, I think it went ok.
Situation 1. I had just received my TXCHL when I was driving home and was pulled over for a simple traffic violation(rolling stop or running a yellow light). I was carrying a since long gone, Taurus PT-145 in holster at 3:30 on my hip, and it was around 9:00pm. Upon my informing, the officer had me leave my vehicle, place my hands on the top of my car, and disarmed me. After running my information( the basics, and my gun for being stolen!?), I was let off with a warning. The officer was polite as he placed my slide-locked firearm, the magazine, and the previously chambered round, on the roof of my car, and simply asked" Please don't load it until I leave". So I did just that. After he was on his way I reloaded the round manually to the chamber, returned the magazine to it's home , reholstered, and went about my merry way, thinking "I can't believe I just loaded a gun on the bussiest street in the little town. Beside the embarresed feeling of having my hands on he car as people drove by, I think it went ok.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
If this thread has any life left at all, the "troll" comments have to stop NOW.
"Troll" is so overused and misused that it has lost all meaning.
The "official" definition is as follows:
Someone who simply disagrees with you or posts a contrary opinion as a relevant counterpoint to the debate is NOT a troll. They may be wrong, but they aren't trolling absent a LOT more than a moderately articulate expression of a position that isn't as "strong" as yours on the issue.
Calling someone a troll just indicates that your position is weak and you've run out of logic with which to sustain your side of the argument. Don't do it.
"Troll" is so overused and misused that it has lost all meaning.
The "official" definition is as follows:
Someone who simply disagrees with you or posts a contrary opinion as a relevant counterpoint to the debate is NOT a troll. They may be wrong, but they aren't trolling absent a LOT more than a moderately articulate expression of a position that isn't as "strong" as yours on the issue.
Calling someone a troll just indicates that your position is weak and you've run out of logic with which to sustain your side of the argument. Don't do it.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Why did he do that? Did you give him some reason to believe that the gun was stolen?
Deanimator
Member
So, did Feinstein and Rowan not own guns?
Or were they not anti-gun?
Any adult of normal intelligence understands that it's easy to both own guns and be anti-gun. You just have to be a hypocrite. It's what allowed Roy Cohn to both be virulently anti-homosexual and a homosexual.
Ask your wife what "disingenuous" means.
My rights, my rights, my rights... Scream it all you want, but that officer has every right to go home at night after his shift. he doesn't know you from a hole in the ground and as said, many officers have been killed on the traffic stop. What's a cop killer look like? It's ALWAYS within their best interest to make the situation as safe as they possibly can for themselves. Would YOU want to be in their shoes at come into situations like this all the time?
Now, if you're SO 100% sure you were violated of your civil rights, get a lawyer and see where it leads. After all the officer was complete, in your opinion, violating your civil rights.
All this starts sounding like the playground...he took my cookie, he took my truck waa waa waa...SO! again, if you're SO sure and adament about it...ACT don't cry here!
Now, if you're SO 100% sure you were violated of your civil rights, get a lawyer and see where it leads. After all the officer was complete, in your opinion, violating your civil rights.
All this starts sounding like the playground...he took my cookie, he took my truck waa waa waa...SO! again, if you're SO sure and adament about it...ACT don't cry here!
Deanimator
Member
And if he can't do that without violating the law or somebody's rights, it needs to be a one way trip.
If it's too hard being a cop AND obeying the law, I think everyone would understand if he quit and did something else.
Still 2 Many Choices!?
Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2006
- Messages
- 455
Situation 2. I was pulled over by a State Trooper with a damned good eye. He was parked watching traffic, and I drove by, not speeding, but at the limit of 50mph. He saw than my registration(or inspection) was out of date and lit me up. Mine was pink I believe, and the correct one was green, but damn good eye to notice a 4" sticker at 50 mph anyway! This time I was carrying my Glock23. Upon my informing, I was again asked out of the car, disarmed in the same manner, and treated to a free inspection of my private property (just the gun). He ran the numbers, and when finised, he returned with my ticket (eventually dismissed as I had the registration, just not with me), and again placed the previously chambered round, magazine, and firearm on the roof. He parroted the same line I take to be customary now," please don't load your firearm until I leave , have a good day". Again I did just that. Waited, chambered round, returned magazine, reholsterd my weapon, got in and drove home.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
In Texas LE cannot disarm a permit holder unless they have a reason. And they most certainly cannot "run the numbers" just because they want to.
Also, note that after Sep 1 of 2009 there is no longer a penalty for not informing LE that you are carrying concealed.
Your rights were likely violated, whether you care or not. Most people don't care, that's fine. Doesn't change the fact that it happened.
The mere presence of a gun won't hold up to "reasonable".
And this one really doesn't. The mere presence of a firearm held by a permit holder is not probable cause to believe the gun is stolen, so running the numbers in that situation is a violation of the 4th Amendment.
Again, you don't have to care but it's a fact. And, I'm actually surprised that you say it was a State Trooper who ran the numbers based solely on a traffic stop because there have been published directives explaining when that can and cannot be done and the DPS is usually pretty good about understanding that law. It's possible he just took the gun back to his car and didn't run the numbers at all unless he told you he did.
Last edited:
brboyer
Member
You're kidding, right?
A certain percentage of gun owners do not believe anyone needs anything other than a hunting rile; that pistols are only designed to kill people; no one needs more that three rounds; open carry is stupid; and people that carry concealed pistols are paranoid; etc.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
BlkHawk73 said:
No, sorry, lots of falsehoods in there.
First, that officer does NOT have the right to go home at the expense of my rights, that has been upheld by many courts, many times. It's very well settled law, that boat has sailed.
And, it has NOT been shown that many officers have been killed by permit holders during a traffic stop. In fact, not a single incident has been shown to demonstrate that.
dpeticca
Member
The problem with this discussion....
Is that there are two diverging views on what should have happened.
Viewpoint 1: The 2nd amendment gives me the right to have my gun on me at all times.
Viewpoint 2: The 2nd amendment gives me the right to have my gun, with limitations.
I am personally somewhere in the middle. I don't think that the right exists without limitation, because I do think there is a legitimate reason to regulate some aspects of gun ownership (i.e. should convicted felons be allowed to own guns?) but I also sense that anti gunners will use anything less than a concrete ruling that the 2nd amendment stands without limitations, to continue to attack it.
As for some folks calling others hippies, and others responding with "troll", its obvious that the diverging political viewpoints are being attacked by simple name calling, which is not High Road in my book. I enjoy this forum, as a reader mostly, since I find much of what is said to be of my political viewpoint, but we shouldn't squelch diverging (narrow) viewpoints. The fella from Nevada is a GUN OWNER, calling him "anti-gun" or implying it simply doesn't reconcile with common sense.
We all fundamentally believe in the right to keep and bear arms, but like other rights of the bill of rights, there are clearly some limitations and it's obvious to me that the supreme court is going to rule in favor of the 2nd amendment, but still providing clarity for limitations of ownership (felons), location (schools) etc..
Is that there are two diverging views on what should have happened.
Viewpoint 1: The 2nd amendment gives me the right to have my gun on me at all times.
Viewpoint 2: The 2nd amendment gives me the right to have my gun, with limitations.
I am personally somewhere in the middle. I don't think that the right exists without limitation, because I do think there is a legitimate reason to regulate some aspects of gun ownership (i.e. should convicted felons be allowed to own guns?) but I also sense that anti gunners will use anything less than a concrete ruling that the 2nd amendment stands without limitations, to continue to attack it.
As for some folks calling others hippies, and others responding with "troll", its obvious that the diverging political viewpoints are being attacked by simple name calling, which is not High Road in my book. I enjoy this forum, as a reader mostly, since I find much of what is said to be of my political viewpoint, but we shouldn't squelch diverging (narrow) viewpoints. The fella from Nevada is a GUN OWNER, calling him "anti-gun" or implying it simply doesn't reconcile with common sense.
We all fundamentally believe in the right to keep and bear arms, but like other rights of the bill of rights, there are clearly some limitations and it's obvious to me that the supreme court is going to rule in favor of the 2nd amendment, but still providing clarity for limitations of ownership (felons), location (schools) etc..
Still 2 Many Choices!?
Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2006
- Messages
- 455
Situation 3. Infamous Walmart stoppage. Some of you may remember it. I was stopped because a good semeritan thought I was acting suspiciously, because I changed shirts in the parking lot before going into the store. I am(or was at the time) a young black man, and I was with a you whit woman. I hate to think this played some part in he GS mind that something was up, but who knows. Upon our return from walmart(I bought headphones I believe), we were met by officers, claiming an annonimois call said I was pulling "multiple bags out of my clothes"! Licenses are requested, so I give both. I am then disarmed to the horror of my female company(she knew I carried, but was confused and alarmed as we did nothing wrong). The usual run the gun stuff happens, the male officer makes a few sideways comments, like "did he just have that stuffed in his pants"
! I always carry chambered, and like my boys where hey are so of course it was holstered, but the comment was just stupid. He also asked why I was carrying in Walmart, and I had lost some of my cool by now, so I responded with something like "why not", instead of the better,"it's my right", "I can't fit a cop in my pocket", or "I have a small penis lol". After the nicer female officer figured this was all BS, visually inspected my car, asking to look inside a ba in my car, I allowed it, but told her my OTHER PISTOL was in the glove box,and she understandably said"just don't reach for it". The bag had my other shirt in it and we were done.
Back to the SOP, of firearm on the roof, magazine out, round next to magazine. Same "don't load it until we leave" speech, but no worse for wear besides scaring my female friend. I rechamberd, reholstered, and cleared of wrong doing, drove my ritghteously indignant behind, to her house to watch a movie.
On a side note, the female friend was eventually convinced to get her TXCHL!
! I always carry chambered, and like my boys where hey are so of course it was holstered, but the comment was just stupid. He also asked why I was carrying in Walmart, and I had lost some of my cool by now, so I responded with something like "why not", instead of the better,"it's my right", "I can't fit a cop in my pocket", or "I have a small penis lol". After the nicer female officer figured this was all BS, visually inspected my car, asking to look inside a ba in my car, I allowed it, but told her my OTHER PISTOL was in the glove box,and she understandably said"just don't reach for it". The bag had my other shirt in it and we were done.Back to the SOP, of firearm on the roof, magazine out, round next to magazine. Same "don't load it until we leave" speech, but no worse for wear besides scaring my female friend. I rechamberd, reholstered, and cleared of wrong doing, drove my ritghteously indignant behind, to her house to watch a movie.
On a side note, the female friend was eventually convinced to get her TXCHL
!
Deanimator
Member
Viewpoint 3: The 2nd Amendment doesn't "GIVE" anything. It recognizes and protects a preexisting right.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
I gotta be honest here. It sounds like you are the victim of some pretty serious racial profiling in these incidents. All 3 of those stories are way outside of what should normally happen. Happens once, eh you run across someone having a bad day, 3 times? I'd be a bit more unhappy I think.
brboyer
Member
I read a story recently where this guy went into a convenience store and was really pleasant and professional while robbing it, kept apologizing for doing it, said he lost his job, "sorry", wife left him, "sorry", don't push that alarm button, "sorry", I can't go to jail - BANG, "sorry", I can't go to jail, did not mean to kill you. Gets arrested a few days later.
What does my story have to do with your story?
Both have a criminal that went home safe at the end of the day!
Still 2 Many Choices!?
Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2006
- Messages
- 455
Texasrifleman:
Oh, I indeed care, and it may be illegal, but also know when to pick my fights. It is not too wise to argue the law with an officer that has just disarmed me. And probable cause, as I have found out, is whatever the officer wants it to be at the time sadly. If they want to searh you, they will find a "reason". I feel the disarming I stops works the same way, until we have it codified more clearly(cough...4th Ammendment...cough... cough!), that is.
Still 2 Many Choices!?
Oh, I indeed care, and it may be illegal, but also know when to pick my fights. It is not too wise to argue the law with an officer that has just disarmed me. And probable cause, as I have found out, is whatever the officer wants it to be at the time sadly. If they want to searh you, they will find a "reason". I feel the disarming I stops works the same way, until we have it codified more clearly(cough...4th Ammendment...cough... cough!), that is.
Still 2 Many Choices!?
dpeticca
Member
Now you're splitting hairs Deanimator. Let's go ahead and make you feel a little better and recognize that the right pre-existed as all the rights of the Bill of Rights.
Does the 2nd amendment exist without limitation? That is the real question. My attempt at getting the discussion to a more productive one seems to elude you.
Does the 2nd amendment exist without limitation? That is the real question. My attempt at getting the discussion to a more productive one seems to elude you.
brboyer
Member
What is special about schools? Or government buildings, or bars or any other restriction. I never understood that.
cassandrasdaddy
Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2006
- Messages
- 4,206
In fact, not a single incident has been shown to demonstrate that.
this is the latest in a long line of fail statements but it does sound good
this is the latest in a long line of fail statements but it does sound good
brboyer
Member
You are correct, you are better off to argue it before he disarms you!
Equal footing and all.
Still 2 Many Choices!?
Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2006
- Messages
- 455
Brboyer:I read a story recently where this guy went into a convenience store and was really pleasant and professional while robbing it, kept apologizing for doing it, said he lost his job, "sorry", wife left him, "sorry", don't push that alarm button, "sorry", I can't go to jail - BANG, "sorry", I can't go to jail, did not mean to kill you. Gets arrested a few days later.
What does my story have to do with your story?
Both have a criminal that went home safe at the end of the day!
did you just insinuate that I am a "criminal", or did something wrong in any of my posted scenarios? I am just wanting some clarification here.
Still 2 Many Choices!?
What does my story have to do with your story?
Both have a criminal that went home safe at the end of the day!
did you just insinuate that I am a "criminal", or did something wrong in any of my posted scenarios? I am just wanting some clarification here.
Still 2 Many Choices!?
cassandrasdaddy
Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2006
- Messages
- 4,206
- Status
