Grammar for Gunnies

[.38 Special]

Sorry guys, my formal education ended after the 8th grade. I am not a typist I am a mechanic.

I can't see beating somebody because they can't type or spell well.

I've read a bunch of your stuff and it's always readable. We all make the occasional typo, etc., and I don't think anyone is seriously calling for perfection or award-winning prose. IMO, the point is simply to avoid looking like a barely literate hillbilly. If a guy who didn't start high school can do it, there's really no excuse, hmm?

 

[ZeSpectre]

Sorry guys, my formal education ended after the 8th grade. I am not a typist I am a mechanic.

I can't see beating somebody because they can't type or spell well.

You see that's the thing, there is a WORLD of difference between trying to help someone with some self-improvement (via constructive criticism) and "beating up" on someone. What I see the vast majority of the time is someone offering helpful advice and the recipient getting defensive and lashing out, generally with some stupid comment along the lines of "grammar Natzi".

I don't beat up on English teachers that can't put a synchronizer in an 18 speed Eaton Transmission.

But if one was sloppy about working on that transmission do folks keep coming back or do they go someplace else to someone they feel is competent? If you personally saw someone screwing up a transmission are you "beating them up" if you point out the error and/or try to help them correct it before it gets installed (is put out in front of the public)?

Same thing with trying to use proper communication skills here. If someone -appears- to be uneducated (regardless of the truth of the matter) it has a strong impact on how they are perceived and how seriously one is taken since grammar/spelling and so forth is all anyone else really has to go by on an internet forum.

Not saying folks have to be perfect, the lord knows I'm not, but we can't make things -worse- by trying a little harder.

 

[Big45]

Hmmm 4 pages of non gun discussion, whose asleep at the wheel?

 

[Brian Dale]

Sorry guys, my formal education ended after the 8th grade. I am not a typist I am a mechanic.

I can't see beating somebody because they can't type or spell well.

I don't beat up on English teachers that can't put a synchronizer in an 18 speed Eaton Transmission.

Hm. Clear thoughts, clearly expressed. You made the effort to do it right. I reject your (sarcastic-looking ) apology because it's unnecessary.
You're not writing garbage; you're setting a good example instead.

I'd bring my transmission to you.

 

[loop]

I think this is a terrific thread.

Catfish, I do not look down on people who are lacking in certain aspects of their education. I look down on those who were exposed to the education, but refuse to put it to use.

We all judge people by the words they choose to use. Denying it simply demonstrates a refusal to acknowledge our own prejudices. People gravitate to people who speak in their own colloquialisms and familiar slang. It is a stretch for me to say "ain't no way," but when I do use that phrase everyone knows it is done to accentuate the meaning.

When someone says someone "disrespected" someone it tells me they are either uneducated, stupid or both. The person who utters that word deserves no respect.

As I stated before, I am the editor of a periodical. I judge people by the words they CHOOSE to use. If one chooses to sound stupid they will be judged as stupid. (Notice, I did not use the word dumb. It has a completely different meaning.) If one tries to use the language to the best of their ability I can tell. I respect those individuals.

Proving "I is a idiot what shoulda ben held back in the fouth grade," is not acceptable.

Many posts on this forum are worse.

As a reporter I can use anything I find on this forum. I simply must attribute it to "John Q. Dumbass on the ___ forum."

Regardless of how anyone feels about the quality of their language skills on these boards, I wish to encourage you to bear in mind every word you post could be used by a reporter to support his/her anti-gun argument.

If I were so inclined I could probably set Second Amendment rights back a few decades based solely on the posts in this forum alone.

And speaking of using sloppy grammar to make a point and how we, on this forum, may shoot ourselves in the foot, I am reminded of a quote.

"I have met the enemy and he is us," Pogo.

 

[XD Fan]

This is a fascinating thread. I think we really need to bee careful about how we present ourselves to the parts of our culture that does not hold our values in relationship to guns. If we want to triumph, we cannot be seen as Neanderthals.

 

[Jamie C.]

I get annoyed when I hear someone say, "It's just a little further up the road." NO, NO, NO. It's a little farther up the road. Further, I believe, is a verb. To further your education, or your shooting skills. Farther is used when discussing physical distance.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
fur·ther Audio Help /ˈfɜrðər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fur-ther] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation compar. adv. and adj. of far with superl. fur·thest, verb
–adverb
1. at or to a greater distance; farther: I'm too tired to go further.
2. at or to a more advanced point; to a greater extent: Let's not discuss it further.
3. in addition; moreover: Further, he should be here any minute.
–adjective
4. more distant or remote; farther: The map shows it to be further than I thought.
5. more extended: Does this mean a further delay?
6. additional; more: Further meetings seem pointless.
–verb (used with object)
7. to help forward (a work, undertaking, cause, etc.); promote; advance; forward: You can always count on him to further his own interests.

Seems a lot of what annoys us is just our own picky nature.

Still, I too get annoyed with people that use the wrong word, or obviously can't be bothered to use a dictionary or spell-checker. But for me, it's more their laziness I find irritating than their education.


J.C.

 

[La Pistoletta]

Speaking only for myself, if a person cannot be bothered to put any time and effort into a post, I cannot be bothered to put any time and effort into reading it. Doubtless that results in the occasional missed gem, but on the whole I find that poor spelling, punctuation, and sentence structure go hand-in-hand with poor thinking.

Exactly. If you want people to read what you write, make it as intelligible as possible. Spelling and grammar are among the few things that can and should be done perfectly whenever it makes sense. Aside from the odd typo, there really is no excuse for not trying one's best when it comes to writing. If you aren't good at it, improve.

Do what I do and download the dictionary addon for Firefox and check every single word that you're not sure how to spell. Grammar is a bit trickier to learn, since unlike an isolated word, you can't just look it up. I find daily reading to be very helpful.

The important thing to note is that people will put into reading your post what you put into typing it. Furthermore, antis are waging a war on gun ownership and its advocates. They will use anything they can scrounge up to portray you to others in such a way to make you appear irresponsible.

As with what you wear, what you write may or may not accurately describe your character but it will be used against you. Some people simply need to improve and knowing that, you wouldn't expect perfection right away. But it's usually easy to see when someone isn't even trying and you know they could do much better.

 

[mnrivrat]

Like it or not, the way we speak and write says a great deal about the way others perceive us. Misspellings, poor grammar and misused punctuation are easy targets for members of the press and general public to use against us happy gun folk. We have a tough enough argument trying to convince the general public and the media that we’re responsible, intelligent citizens. So why give them more ammo in the form of bad grammar and spelling?

Read that - then started to skim down the posts until I got to #15 .

Then decided to give up ,as it started to sound like bla bla bla , bla bla bla ~!

For Christ sake guys - loosen up your shorts and find a chat board for English teachers and high strung others who can't communicate anything without crossing all the T's and dotting all the I's . I feel sorry for you ! Well - maybe not !

Edit: Well Ya - I got an attitude problem when it comes to spelling and grammer nazi's - I suppose I need "refinement" .

 

[ArmedLiberal]

We present ourselves here entirely through our writing. Choice of signature and screen name show who we are to some extent, but I think our thoughts and the way they are expressed have the greatest influence on how other forum members perceive us. Perhaps poor grammar on the forum is like going out to some nice social occasion in dirty, torn clothes and a two day beard. (Although, there are some occasions where dirty and unshaven are the perfect choice.)

I agree that proper grammar is important, but clarity trumps all; both clarity of expression and clear organization of the thoughts and arguments presented. (Semi-colons rule dude!!) Do not Strunk and White hold clarity above all else?

There (they're, their) are times that intense, passionate argument make grammar less important, subject at all times to the rule of clarity. And Language is a changing, evolving beast. The way we write here will have it's tiny influence on how generations to come speak. I believe that the Internet provides places for people to converse through written language that would be impossible any other way. Part of that is an informal style that would not work in journalism or publishing.

I think that all of us forum members are improving our writing skills by the act of writing here. Everyone of us has some aspect of life - whether (weather!) it's grammar, transmission repair, dancing, or marksmanship - that we're figuring out as we go along and deserve patience and freedom from condemnation as we're learning.

This is a great thread, much needed, much read but I'm sure we'll all remember: "No one love a Grammar Nazi."

AL

 

[Brian Dale]

ArmedLiberal, I share your view that clarity is king. You've done a good job of demonstrating it in that post.

A belated 'Welcome Aboard' to you!

 

[esmith]

These lines are on display for everyone to read, every time you post. I assume they are meant to represent a little bit of you. You misspelled "Hillary", "Halocaust" sounds like an Xbox game, "Guns being deprived of German citizens" is exactly backwards unless you're trying to be clever, and I can pretty much guarantee that "wretch her face" is not what you're trying to say.

Is this really the way you want to portray yourself in public?

So i suppose you know better than I as to what i am trying to say? I highly doubt it.

I will agree however, that my signature does have it's grammatical flaws, yet i still stand by original argument. You knew what i meant through the sig, yet im guessing you leaned toward rejecting what i had to say. Which doesn't suprise me, as most people have been indoctrinated to believe that if someone makes a mistake while typing something, then they are less likely to be taken seriously. This is what i believe to be totally foolish. Just because someone can't type well or use proper grammar shouldn't mean what they believe isn't correct or logical. I bet there's a ton of rednecks out there who love guns and support the 2nd, just like you. Yet many of those rednecks probably can't use the english language to it's fullest, does that mean what they say is somehow wrong or mistaken? I don't think so.

Make no mistake, do not think i care that you believe i sound as if i am contradicting myself. I know my ways, and i will stick to them.

 

[3KillerBs]

Something I've noticed is that a lot of Americans tend to use "were" with I, it, she and he, as in "if it were me, I would've gotten hollow points". I was always taught "I was, you were, he/she/it was, we/you/they were". Is it a part of American English, or optional or simply a mistake to use were in first and third person singular?

In this case its for a hypothetical that is contrary to fact. For example: If it were likely to rain I'd need an umbrella but the forecast is clear so I'll bring my sunglasses instead.

-------------

People ought to remember that the point and purpose of language is communication. The rules and customs of grammar, spelling, style, and usage aren't there to torture the masses or to set apart the elite from the common man (this is especially clear to anyone who has read the gobbledygook that spews from the keyboards of academia these days). Those rules are there to facilitate clear communication.

Basic familiarity with grammar, a good spellchecker (alas, there are none that will tell my dyslexic brain that I've used the wrong word even though I've spelled it correctly), and a reasonable vocabulary make it easier to say what you mean in a way that enables the maximum number of people in the world to understand what you mean and which minimizes misunderstanding.

And if a person happened to not have gotten the education that he/she would have liked to have had there are many excellent, self-teaching resources available. I'm sure its easier to master the basics of English grammar than to build an AR-15 from parts or to customize handloaded ammunition for a dozen different guns and purposes.

 

[Chuck Dye]

Humpty Dumpty, please check your email... or, if the shoe fits...

Sorry for drive-by link, but Lewis Carroll beat me to the argument and I cannot improve on it.

http://www.sundials.org/about/humpty.htm

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'

Alice was too much puzzled to say anything; so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. 'They've a temper, some of them - particularly verbs: they're the proudest - adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs - however, I can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That's what I say!'

'Would you tell me, please,' said Alice, 'what that means?'

'Now you talk like a reasonable child,' said Humpty Dumpty, looking very much pleased. 'I meant by "impenetrability" that we've had enough of that subject, and it would be just as well if you'd mention what you mean to do next, as I suppose you don't mean to stop here all the rest of your life.'

'That's a great deal to make one word mean,' Alice said in a thoughtful tone.

'When I make a word do a lot of work like that,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'I always pay it extra.'

I try not to Humpty-Dumpty the language.

 

[230RN]

I am not a grammar or spelling freak.

When I see an error, my brain can easily skip over it without grating to a halt unless I'm in proffreading mode. Some of the smartest folks I know can't spell worth a darn and make these frequent errors.

However, in the spirit of helping out, I am toying with the idea of using the following for my sig line for a while:

"Gauge" is spelled alphabetically, as in A-e-i-o-U.
There is A RAT in "sepARATe."
To "loose" something means you let it off the leash.
To "lose" something is when the dog you let off the leash does not come back.
"Chose" happens in the past.
"Choose" happens in the present or future.
I don't "loan" you a dollar. I lend it to you.
The dollar is the "loan."

Worthwhile?

Any one-liner additions to this you'd like to see?

But I wouldn't want the list to get too long. If the list does get too long, maybe we can split it up in separate sig lines like this amongst THR folks, like one line per THR member or something.

Like chicken soup: It can't hurt, but might do some good.

This sig line is an example of what I mean:

 

[.38 Special]

So i suppose you know better than I as to what i am trying to say? I highly doubt it.

I will agree however, that my signature does have it's grammatical flaws, yet i still stand by original argument. You knew what i meant through the sig, yet im guessing you leaned toward rejecting what i had to say. Which doesn't suprise me, as most people have been indoctrinated to believe that if someone makes a mistake while typing something, then they are less likely to be taken seriously. This is what i believe to be totally foolish. Just because someone can't type well or use proper grammar shouldn't mean what they believe isn't correct or logical. I bet there's a ton of rednecks out there who love guns and support the 2nd, just like you. Yet many of those rednecks probably can't use the english language to it's fullest, does that mean what they say is somehow wrong or mistaken? I don't think so.

Make no mistake, do not think i care that you believe i sound as if i am contradicting myself. I know my ways, and i will stick to them.

To be blunt, mate, it's not that you sound like you're contradicting yourself, it's that you sound stupid. Unless this is the image you mean to present to us, I do not understand why you don't just put in an extra minute of effort to make yourself sound smart. I mean, I can understand that you'd like to be able to ignore basic rules of grammar, punctuation, and spelling and still have everyone take you seriously, but it just doesn't work that way. If you walk into a business meeting with a Grateful Dead T-shirt, three days of stubble, and B.O., you can hope people will ignore your appearance and listen only to the content of your speech, but your odds are pretty slim.

And yeah, I understood what you meant, although I had to re-read it to make sure. But I wasn't exactly inspired to thoughtfully examine the ideas presented and evaluate their worth. The impression is of valueless words carelessly tossed onto the screen. Again, if you can't be bothered to put any effort into your writing, why should you expect anyone to put any effort into reading it?

 

[TCB in TN]

I am far more concerned about what you have to say, than I am with how you say it. Growing up in the south, I have known a number of wildly successful people, who say y'all, howdy, ain't and the like. There are also many others who blast them for it. Sad fact is that those doing the blasting tend to have thoughts and actions not even on the same level. If your only arguement, is to attack the writing, or speaking style of your opponent, you have pretty much already lost.
BTW There is a big difference between "talking" and "saying something", plenty of folks out here on the web talking their heads off, but not that many are really saying anything! Just my $.02!

 

[Coronach]

I have a firearm-specific one.

People: it is a MUZZLE BRAKE. It is NOT REPEAT NOT a "muzzle break".

Drives me nuts.

Mike

 

[.38 Special]

I am far more concerned about what you have to say, than I am with how you say it. Growing up in the south, I have known a number of wildly successful people, who say y'all, howdy, ain't and the like. There are also many others who blast them for it. Sad fact is that those doing the blasting tend to have thoughts and actions are not at the same level. If your only arguement, is to attack the writing, or speaking style of you opponent, you have pretty much already lost.
BTW There is a big difference between "talking" and "saying something", plenty of folks out here on the web talking their heads off, but not that many are really saying anything! Just my $.02!

Well, here:

"I handguns this Mo theirs a review of the Hexsite I have them on my guns and they work good for me"

This is the entire post, reprinted verbatim from a recent thread. I don't mean to pick on the guy, because he could indeed be an extremely knowledgeable fellow with a vast background in the shooting sports. But I would have a hard time believing that even the staunchest defender of the "presentation isn't important; only ideas are important" school of thought could read a post like that and believe that he's just read something of value.

Never mind what kind of an image it presents to the non-shooting world.

 

[.38 Special]

Also, I thought it was "muzzel break".

Anyway, I'm going to try to be done here. I really don't want to be personally insulting people, and some of the stuff I've written has probably already been taken that way. Obviously the folks who think presentation is unimportant will continue to be unmoved by contrary opinions. Oh well.

 

[Coronach]

FWIW, I think you can err by going too far in either direction. Grammar nazism is lame, but communicating like an illiterate cretin is worse. This is a text-based medium, easily searchable by antis and fence sitters, and if we come off as a bunch of illiterate bumpkins, that is what we will be considered to be.

If you think that doesn't matter, ask yourself how we got to be in the position of fighting tooth and nail for what is an enumerated and easily-understood constitutional right. Perceptions matter.

Mike

 

[Bartkowski]

Also, I thought it was "muzzel break".

I believe that is how muzzle is spelled on Remington thunderbolt boxes. Anyone else notice?

 

[GunTech]

Actually, "Internet," and "internet" are two separate words. "Internet" (with capitalization) is a proper noun, referring specifically to the global network of computers. "internet" (without capitalization) is just a regular noun, referring to any computer network (which could be the Internet)

ATK, as a computer profession and network expert, I'm going to have to take issue with that.

Internet is a contraction of interconnected network(s). These can either be LANs (Local Area Networks) or WANs (Wide Area Networks). It is generally understood that internets are WANs, and LANs are intranets. More specifically, it is usually held that internets are routed, while intranets are not.

Even more specifically, an internet, by definition, uses IP or Internet Protocol for passing data on a packet switched network. It is possible to have a network that does not use IP. Examples of non-IP protocols include IPX and AppleTalk, to name a couple. These were popular at one time, but are now deprecated in favor of IP.

 

[catfish101]

It is "brake" not "break"..

Like "brakes" on your automobile. Well.... brakes don't actually stop an automobile but thats another topic.

I think we all know what a muzzle brake does even though we can't spell it.

 

[TCB in TN]

"I handguns this Mo theirs a review of the Hexsite I have them on my guns and they work good for me"

What is wrong with this, I unnerstood eggazakly wut day ment! I ulso lak hangunz, an er review of da hexsite wuz rat on targut!

But seriously, there is a big difference between the above, and some of the other criticisms noted in this thread.