Gun handling on TV

[Red Dragon]

Having as much spare time as I do, I watch a lot of TV. I have noticed that most shows still have the usual hollywood BS gun handling but I have started to notice a few shows where it looks like they are actually making an effort to use good weapon handling techniques (fingers off the trigger, not pointing at friends with the weapon to tell them where to go...). Some of the shows that seem to have the best handling (relatively) for a tv show are the shows on the Sci Fi Channel's Sci-friday lineup. (Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, Battlestar Galactica). There are the occasional dumb gun moments but the proper handling techniques are more frequent than most shows.

What are your opinions about current TV show weapons handling? Good or bad.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Such shows are production fiction for profit. They would not be adding realism to the shows if realism didn't benefit the bottom line.

Such shows get lots of things wrong, not just gun.

 

[baz]

I'm watching CSI:Miami last night with my wife, and two of the CSI's have guns pointed at a person. Neither one has their index finger on the trigger, but pointed forward outside the trigger guard. I pause it (PVR), and point this out to my wife, who does "get" the "gun culture." "Maybe they just want to be careful, and not accidentally shoot anyone," she says. "Then why is the gun drawn and pointed at someone?" I respond. And then I go over the "Do not point a gun at anything you are not prepared to shoot" rule.

I conceded that the person they were pointing the guns at was probably safe from being accidentally killed. But that death from blunt force trauma was still a possibility if they threw the guns at the person.

 

[Igloodude]

In one of the most recent episodes of Battlestar Galactica, the Chief Engineer-turned-CO of the Pegasus has what appears to be a Tommygun in a display case in his cabin. Outfrackingstanding!!

Anyway, yeah, it has been peculiar to me that BSG hasn't tripped my mental safety rules alarm much if at all, possibly because I'm so distracted by the silence of my mental military-unrealism alarm. Someone with a say in scriptwriting on that show has served in the US Navy, probably as senior aircrew on an aircraft carrier.

 

[birddog]

has what appears to be a Tommygun in a display case in his cabin. Outfrackingstanding!!

I noticed that too. The camera lingered just long enough to make a point of the Tommygun. Interesting because the guy's character was more engineer than warrior. Great show, as far as TV shows go. Lots of real-life guns (I've noticed a bunch of CZ's) in use.

 

[jerkface11]

The cabin on pegasus with all the guns was the admirals. In the episode where she got shot they showed the walls were LINED with antique weapons. Mainly guns. Lugers machineguns revolvers you name it.

 

[gezzer]

two of the CSI's have guns pointed at a person. Neither one has their index finger on the trigger, but pointed forward outside the trigger guard. I pause it (PVR), and point this out to my wife, who does "get" the "gun culture." "Maybe they just want to be careful, and not accidentally shoot anyone," she says. "Then why is the gun drawn and pointed at someone?" I respond. And then I go over the "Do not point a gun at anything you are not prepared to shoot" rule.

That is the proper method of holding a firearm on someone. The only time the finger goes into the trigger guard is to fire the weapon, after firing it is removed.

I am quite sure when a cop points his weapon at a person he is prepared to shoot that person so the "Do not point a gun at anything you are not prepared to shoot" does not apply.

 

[spaceCADETzoom]

Anyway, yeah, it has been peculiar to me that BSG hasn't tripped my mental safety rules alarm much if at all, possibly because I'm so distracted by the silence of my mental military-unrealism alarm. Someone with a say in scriptwriting on that show has served in the US Navy, probably as senior aircrew on an aircraft carrier.

yeah, outside of the rampant fraternization, complete lack of knowledge of commissions, pilots being used as snipers, a chief that seems to be the only damn chief in the fleet (he fixes planes, he fixes machines, he's both ship's company and air wing, he MAKES planes from scratch, he secures munitions, he serves on the flight deck, offworld, and everywhere in betwen), all sorts of mutinous crap that don't lead to anything but frowns and furrowed eyebrows (where they'd normally get leavenworth, bullet to the head, or somesuch similar repercussion), disregard for teh fact engineering officers are in fact line officers, disregard of the fact a transition from fighter pilot to skipper of an aircraft carrier overnight is infinately more ridiculous than EO to CO...and billions of other things I have to turn my brain off for to mildly enjoy the show...(remember pilots shooting off sidearms in a room after being spun around in a vomit-chair-thing...as part of thier training, natch?)

I DO like the show. Loved the miniseries, and a lot of the episodes...it just has sooooooo many things that annoy me. Not the least of which is its painful pretentiousness...

 

[Double Naught Spy]

The four rules of gun handling are seen by many shooters and the firearm version of the 10 Commandments. The rules are heralded as words of God, but so many devout followers of the four rules will amazingly do really stupid stuff they don't see as all that important that are as dangerous or more dangerous. One of the instructors where I took my first handgun safety course refused to wear a seat belt in his vehicle unless he saw a cop. He thought it stupid and an infringement of his rights that somebody else would tell him how to operate a motor vehicle and yet if he caught you violating a rule of gunhandling then you got to be the example of what not to do and how it was so dangerous and showed a lack of respect for the weapon, self, and fellow shooters.

Point? Simple. We see the rules as absolute and can't understand why others do not attach such a religious signicance to the 4 rules of gun handling, but the gun folks are far from being perfect and often violate all sorts of other rules as they see fit.

gezzar has his interpretation of one of the rules that the only time the finger goes inside the triggerguard is to pull the trigger and after firing the finger is removed. It is an overly safe method of gun handling to prevent the person with the gun from discharging unintentionally. Where I have schooled, we kept fingers on the triggers after firing until the downed threat was deemed incapacitated. While that decision is being made, the gun stayed on target and we would allow the trigger to reset with no slack. At that point it is a matter of whose safety is being put first, yours or the guy you shot? I don't mean to imply gezzar is wrong in any manner, only that even within the devout of gun safety, it isn't straight literal interpretation across the board.

TV shows and movies still serve as one of the major educational systems for those that don't know guns, don't intend to know guns, but will use guns to commit crime. Some of us have benefit because of the lack of proper education. As one officer explained to me, when punk kid draws a gun on him and raises it to a high Tai Chi firing position (AKA homebody style above head), he figures that there is little chance of being hit, especially if he is moving or is more than 5 yards away. As he said, it is like the person is shooting at somebody else as they don't practice, don't practice shooting from such a poorly controlled stance and hold, and they really don't have any idea where their bullets are going. The proficient bad guys don't consider TV as good firearms training.

 

[Hardware]

But for all its faults it is worlds better than the original.

New BSG: Holy frack they're after us! Run!

Old BSG: Holy frack they're after us! Ru... oooh, a space casino!

Its only entertainment.

 

[BigRobT]

In one of the most recent episodes of Battlestar Galactica, the Chief Engineer-turned-CO of the Pegasus has what appears to be a Tommygun in a display case in his cabin. Outfrackingstanding!!

Anyway, yeah, it has been peculiar to me that BSG hasn't tripped my mental safety rules alarm much if at all, possibly because I'm so distracted by the silence of my mental military-unrealism alarm. Someone with a say in scriptwriting on that show has served in the US Navy, probably as senior aircrew on an aircraft carrier.

You noticed that, too, I see.

yeah, outside of the rampant fraternization, complete lack of knowledge of commissions, pilots being used as snipers, a chief that seems to be the only damn chief in the fleet (he fixes planes, he fixes machines, he's both ship's company and air wing, he MAKES planes from scratch, he secures munitions, he serves on the flight deck, offworld, and everywhere in betwen), all sorts of mutinous crap that don't lead to anything but frowns and furrowed eyebrows (where they'd normally get leavenworth, bullet to the head, or somesuch similar repercussion), disregard for teh fact engineering officers are in fact line officers, disregard of the fact a transition from fighter pilot to skipper of an aircraft carrier overnight is infinately more ridiculous than EO to CO...and billions of other things I have to turn my brain off for to mildly enjoy the show...(remember pilots shooting off sidearms in a room after being spun around in a vomit-chair-thing...as part of thier training, natch?)

Even though it's unrealistic in the Navy WE know, just imagine for a moment, that a carrier, ready for decommissioning, with minimal crew, was the only known surviving carrier. Can anybody say, "collateral duties" ?? Sometimes one has to work with the crew they're given. With only 48,000 or so humans known to still be alive, one doesn't have the time to be as picky as the norms would dictate. I would love to do that spinny thing and then attempt to fire a weapon. It might provide some "interesting" results!! There are some incongruencies in the new BSG, but they're tolerable, all in all. After all, it ISN'T the REAL U.S. Navy!! Caprica may have a different military standard than us mere Earthlings.

 

[FPrice]

The four rules of gun handling are seen by many shooters and the firearm version of the 10 Commandments.

Probably because they are. If you look at them without a jaundiced eye you can clearly see that both have a somewhat similar objective, to save the practioners thereof from harm (gunshot wounds, etc. in one vs eternal damnation in the other).

Can one break the rules and survive? Undoubtedly yes because many have done so and still survived/gone to heaven. I am assuming the latter since I have no knowledge, direct or divine to prove that contention. Only a hunch that since so many people (roughly 100% or so) break the Ten Commandments, heaven would be a very lonely place otherwise.

Your comparison regarding the instructor who did not wear his seat belt misses the mark as badly as I miss the 300 yard target in hi-power. Wearing or not wearing a seat belt does not directly affect the safety of others; it's a self-preservation method for yourself.

The four rules of gun safety are not the be-all and end-all by any means. But they are four damn good rules to live by in order to reduce and minimize possible unintended consequences.

 

[saspic]

I think the reason gun handling on t.v. has improved is just plain safety concerns. Somebody finally realized all the cops, gangsters, soldiers and hunters on the screen are really just actors. Who usually don't know anything about firearms. And seem to love putting their fingers on the trigger and pointing it at people.
After a few pointless deaths like Brandon Lee and Jon-Erik Hexum, liability concerns have apparently hammered home the need for proper gun handling techniques.
Here's a Canadian article I found on the subject:
http://www.galleryofguns.com/shootingtimes/Articles/DisplayArticles.asp?ID=6947
I thought it was good until the last line.

 

[Ala Dan]

Best Advice I Can Give You-

is too forget that crap you have seen (or will see) on TV.
In the "real world", encounters whereas "gun play" may be involved are
entirely different. Just a few seconds on the streets will be for
lack of better terminology PRECIOUS; as most perps have already
done their homework, and are prepared too do you in~!

 

[nfl1990]

I watch a show E-ring on Wed. nights, and for one of the episodes, the main character, (Army spec. forces) was caught in enemy territory and had to try to make it to a border where a US patrol could meet him, and while carrying a rifle, (AK at this point) he practiced good gun safty, ie: finger off the trigger, pointed in a safe direction. The only incongruity was that he seemed to be shooting kind of fast to be accurate.

 

[baz]

hat is the proper method of holding a firearm on someone. The only time the finger goes into the trigger guard is to fire the weapon, after firing it is removed.

Is this a universal truth?

Trigger finger pointing forward is the way I handle a handgun. But as I raise it to a shooting position, the finger goes on the trigger. Now, I'm not an LEO, I've never pointed one at anyone, and hope I never have to. But I would imagine that if I ever feel the need to point it at someone, I'm going to do just what I do when I raise a gun to point it at a target. The finger is going on the trigger as the gun is being pointed. At that point, I'm not worrying about accidents. I've already made the determination that what I'm pointing at is something I'm willing to shoot. Now I do hope that the trigger is only engaged, in that situation, when I will it to be engaged. But if an "accident" occurs to make the gun fire without willful intention, it is only going to have happened in a situation that has already escalated to a point where death or injury was already a possible outcome.

 

[Red Dragon]

Well, the accuracy thing is just a must in the good guy - bad guy battles. The good guy is always an excellent marksman even on the run and the bad guy usually can't shoot for crap when he needs to. The funny thing is, in most movies or TV shows where a good guy becomes a bad guy, his accuracy goes straight to hell.

 

[gunsmith]

24 seems ok, "Americas most wanted" is terrible

I hate "Americas most wanted" gun handling they allways show really poor gun techniques on that show (when they are using actors that is) they have a "swat" scene they play all the time, and the team allways has their fingers on the trigger

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

Battlestar Galactica rocks!

The only problem I've had with the show is that Beretta Storms, FN P90s, FiveseveNs, probably would not be getting used by a group of humans who live hundreds if not thousands of light years away from us and have the power to jump from one point in space to another in an instant. (I'd think they'd have something a little more powerfull.

BUt hey, willing suspension of disbelief!

Anyway, yes they do handle weapons quite well in that show.

 

[IndianaDean]

Interestingly, the programs where I see absolutely correct gun handlng are scifi programs like Firefly and the Stargate series. All of the characters in the SG1 and Atlantis programs always have their trigger fingers adjacent to the trigger like they're supposed to, and rarely ever paint anyone.

 

[gezzer]

20 years law enforcment traing say,s FOTG this stands for finger outside trigger guard. How much time do you think yuo loose keeping it outside the tg. Mirco seconds at most. After shooting the BG and he goes down you had better scan if you want to stay alive. Tunnel vision is real and the only way to combat it is to willfully scan. DO NOT scan with the finger on the trigger if you do I do not want to be your partner.