Gun related plot twist on NCIS

[longrifleman]

Let's pick apart another Hollywood bit of silliness.

Most of the show was pretty much formula cop show stuff, but the gun twist was a bit more creative, if not more physically possible.

The set-up: Bad guy shoots victim with service 9mm and leaves two bullets in body. One penetrates very shallowly and other does normal bullet stuff, but is deformed more than usual. This leads to having to eliminate possibility of two shooters yada yada. Turns out first round was squib due to old ammo soaked with oil giving lousy ignition and second round pushing first round out to do the damage. At the end Gibbs reveals chewed up gun hand on baddie due to kaboom. Solved in an hour. Ya.

I don't believe the second round would have the power to do much damage after blowing up the gun. Also, if the second round did push the first round out, why wouldn't they have the same velocity, and therefore do the same damage? I guess either I don't understand physics or the writers don't.

Anyone have any experience with squibs that would make this not seem so silly?

 

[M2 Carbine]

I like the show but someone gave them really bad info in this one.

 

[Flintlock Tom]

Even with a squib round there would have been two shell casings; anyone ever explain why they only found one? If the explosion did as much damage to the guy's hand as they showed, why was there no gun part debris at the crime scene?
I agree, both bullets would be travelling at near the same speed.

I still really like the show.

 

[NORTEXED]

My kids and I still laugh at the episode when they went to the Fraternity house with all the drunk Frat boys, and one says "Great costume dude, but you spelled CSI wrong on your hats" ROFLMAO

 

[The Rifleman]

I would think that both bullets would have passed clean through the corpse.

A human being is a thin skinned animal. Not a rhino or a elk.

How often do you see water soaked ammo - or oil soaked ammo?

I could put a reloaded 30/06 in a bowl of water for a month and take it out and shoot it and not even worry that it wouldnt go off.

There is no way that a man with a can of WD 40 could damage a pistol round.

How long does a shell last in a 9 MM? About as long as a firecracker on the 4th of July! Gangsters...

 

[larry_minn]

With my Dillion SDB reloader they sent a primed case. It clearly said it was a DEACTIVATED case. Well being courious I stick it into gun and it goes BANG. I call them and guy says they soak them overnight in a oil (this is primed case with NO powder/bullet) I think I understood it was the powder that got damp/damaged. IMO slightly more possible. (assuming poor sealing of case) Possible reason for no second case at scene is it was still stuck in gun chamber form increased force. Yes both bullets should have gone with REDUCED volocity.
Cousin had that happen with S&W Model 19 with 38 wadcutters. He had a case with (likely no powder) and firing rapid fire fired the next one as well. Slight bell in barrel and they both hit targer (50' away IIRC) and were almost 2' lower then orig grouping.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I doubt that the squib would have the power to cycle the slide. It's one of the beauties of the semi: safer rapid fire. He would have had to rack the slide again. Still producing 2 cases.

 

[larry_minn]

Exactly. When shooting a semi auto and failure drills he might have done a "tap,rack,bang" It would have dumped the case from dud rd and chambered a live round. When fired THAT case would remain in gun from overpressure. I.E. only one empty case on ground.


(FWIW) a tap,rack,bang is when you take the heal of your off hand and "tap" the bottom of mag (to make sure its seated) then your "rack" the slide (chamber another rd) and pull trigger (assuming you still have a target)
It should only be done with dummy ammo added to your mag by third party (if possible) Otherwise if it happens to me I do the (pause and think) tap,rack but do NOT FIRE. I then stop and unload and check for reason first rd did not fire. (note it is possible for a rd to fire up to a minute after trigger is pulled) "hangfire" I have never had one over 5 seconds myself and if you keep your face/hands from ejection port/direct rd away even if it (goes) harm should be minimal.

 

[Kaylee]

My favorite "oops" recently was some savant type kid who solved a murder by remembering the serial number of the weapon the bad guy used to kill his family.

... it was a Smith and Wesson revolver.

 

[larry_minn]

OK I am too lazy to dig out my first gun I every bought new (S&W revolver) but the serial numbers were on butt IIRC. You couldn't see them with factory grips but could with pacs I put on.

 

[Winger Ed.]

I would think either both bullets would come out at a reduced speed, or the gun would blow up/shatter and they just flew off somewhere like another part of the pistol----- but not both.

And,,, somewhere in the mess would be 2 shell casings. One of them couldn't just evaporate.


.

 

[repsychler]

My kids and I still laugh at the episode when they went to the Fraternity house with all the drunk Frat boys, and one says "Great costume dude, but you spelled CSI wrong on your hats" ROFLMAO

I got a chuckle out of that one too. Now when I see them with the hats I keep thinking of that line.

The real problem with the show is not the guns, it's that there's not enough Abby.

 

[dfaugh]

One of my beefs with alot of these crime shows, is when the coroner pulls a bullet outa the body and says " Yup, its a .357 (or 9mm)...Remembering that there's only a coupla thousanths difference in the diameter of the 2.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Grand jury duty-"CSI" type stuff

Last year I ended my 6mo tour on my county's special grand jury. We dealt only with high profile homicides. Most of the firearm-wound-ballistic related questions were unanswered or could not be fully explained by our county's ME and other homicide investigators .

One "veteran" homicide cop on the stand and under oath could not recall if a murder weapon recovered at a crime scene was a semi auto pistol or revolver.

Several times I asked about a weapon's serial # or owner's ID but could not get any clear answers.

Our jury foreman was more understanding about this lack of concern/knowledge about weapons/etc than I was. He told me these MEs and cops must have a large case load and can't keep all the facts all the time. I strongly disagreed. If you are tasked as a homicide investigator you should be able to know the difference between a revolver or a pistol or know how most firearms work.

Rusty

 

[57Coastie]

Pistol vs. Revolver

If you are tasked as a homicide investigator you should be able to know the difference between a revolver or a pistol....

This could open up a whole new thread.

With the greatest respect, Rusty, I decline to take a personal position in this expert crowd on the difference between a pistol and a revolver, but I have seen it credibly argued that, as a matter of generally accepted firearms history, handguns are "pistols," and that the word "revolver" became a shorthand way of saying "revolving pistol." That is, a revolver is a pistol, but a pistol is not necessarily a revolver.

I have seen it argued that the widely accepted contrary thinking today that a revolver is not a pistol owes its origin to the War Department's then possibly sloppy use of the terms in manuals such as FM 23-35, the 1946 edition which I have before me now came with my cherished M1911 almost 50 years ago.

Again, Rusty, I am not questioning your use of the terms. I just find this to be a fascinating question.

And who knows?....

Jim

 

[Dr. Dickie]

I strongly disagreed. If you are tasked as a homicide investigator you should be able to know the difference between a revolver or a pistol or know how most firearms work.

Well, he did not say he did not know the difference, he said he could not re-call if it was a pistol or a revolver. I am with foreman, I can see that recalling some facts (with so many cases would be tough). Were they not allowed notes?

 

[RustyShackelford]

Notes-crime scene investigations...

I think some of the cops used notes from time to time but most were not very responsive to the firearm/wound ballistics related questions from the jury panel. The ME office examiners did not explain a lot either but my main issue was with the sworn LEOs who lacked concern over the firearm ownership, type of ammo, serial #s, etc. I know that cops all over the US face 100s of cases every year but that's no excuse for sloppy work or not being detailed. Homicide victims deserve more than that.

Rusty S

PS: When I was a young US Army MP, we were told that a "revolver" had a cylinder and a "pistol" had a slide. The terms are mixed up a lot but it's not real hard to know the difference.

 

[yodar]

One slow one fast

I have a son who snagged some reloads of yet to be defined safety (trade in dreck) and took my P-95 out to play and sufferred a loss of function when the slide would no longer fully retract and charge the next round.

He sent it to Ruger and I paid for the replacement barrel for him ( I had given him the gun)

Turns out the defect was a bulge in the barrel and after interviewing my son I deduced he had had a squib, and failing to observe that event, fired ONE MORE ROUND. Thereupon he acquired a bulge in the barrel.

(I WONDER why? ;>)

Ruger replaced the barrel which i paid $117.00 for including FedEx and the gun was restored by Ruger as good as new.

That is one tough gun. Normally such an event is rather explosive and damaging to the person and gun

Yodar

 

[Stevie-Ray]

When fired THAT case would remain in gun from overpressure. I.E. only one empty case on ground.

I've never had a gun blow up on me, (hopefully never will) but that guy did. I doubt the case stayed in the chamber. Seems like excess pressure went backward before the bullets exited. If it's enough to cause catastrophic failure of the gun, it's enough to blast the case out. Still 2 cases. But JMHO. Open to debate.

 

[obiwan1]

First of all, no Marine would EVER let his ammo get contaminated like that!

 

[Limeyfellow]

NCIS and Jag are pretty bad. I still remember the scenes were the lawyer flies a strike eagle to take out an al quieda base for instance. You can't take either show really seriously.

 

[Walter]

There is no way that a man with a can of WD 40 could damage a pistol round.

I beg to differ. I've read several articles in the last 10 years claiming that
WD-40 WILL penetrate a cartridge case and damage the powder and/or primer.

I have had .22LR rounds in a magazine sprayed with WD-40 that failed to
fire.

I now keep WD/40 away from my ammo, and I do not spray my guns with it
either. Besides the fact that it may damage ammunition, it is not a good
lubricant for firearms. The "oil" in it evaporates in a few days leaving a
sticky film all over. Nasty.

http://www.policeone.com/writers/columnists/lom/articles/125511/

Here is just one article concerning WD-40 and ammunition.

Walter