I agree, but disagree about the Pawn Shop part. Most of those guys actually have it figured out, at least moreso than than the LGS's. Thats because they have the loan side of the business where they make most of their money. It is driven allmost entirely by repeat business. It is a service oriented business. But in principle I agree with you.
Pet Peeves, gun related
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savanahsdad
Member
I agree , kind of ...
they should at least have it ready to go , a new car shows up at the dealer with the feul tank empty, the grill , seats and stearing wheel , are all covered with plastic, along with other thing they need to take of before they sell it to you ,
and most guns are shiped to be stored, not shot , and any GOOD gun shop would/should have it ready for you , eather before they put it in there case or on the spot when they sell it to you ,and do a quick flip through the book that comes with your new gun ,showing you what you need to know ,
12 years back I helped out part time at a gun shop a friend owned, all new gun that came in got an oil patch then a dry patch ran through them , bolts got a dab of gun grease on the lugs , autos got feild striped and lubed , and all saftys were checked and all were dry-fried with snap-caps , and buyers were told to read there books , we had a new gun come in one time that had a patch in the bore !! that could have been real bad !
so would anyone go buy a new car with an empty fuel tank and all coverd in plastic ?
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easyg
Member
Seriously?!?!
A woman goes to a gun shop and buys a gun that she knows nothing about, and also does not ask the salesman to explain how the thing works, and then goes to the range where our original poster befriends her and shows her how the gun works....
and it's the salesman's fault?!?!
This is just too much.
No wonder we have become a nation of victims!!!
No one is willing to admit that they did something stupid, like buy a firearm that they knew nothing about, so they try to find a scapegoat for their own stupidity.
In this case, the salesman.
No, if she went in to a gun shop with the intent to buy a firearm, and she did ZERO research, then she is a fool.
OilyPablo
Member
If she asked the sales human how it operates and he declined to show her, then that's a problem in my book. If she didn't ask, well then......
Ed Ames
Member
Whether she is a fool or not is irrelevant.
The gun shop gave bad advice. The recipient of that advice now likely (through the OP) knows that it was bad advice. She is likely to remember that fact and tell her friends and family. The gun store is likely to suffer. That means the gun stores hurt their own interests.
Worse, they did that with a customer that had money and interest enough to buy a relatively expensive revolver and actually go to a range with it...a customer that was apparently capable of learning because the OP helped her. Those are the people you want as customers.
You are trying to cast blame, but blame is irrelevant. The outcome is that the store hurt themselves. They likely didn't make a single extra dollar on the initial sale and damaged future sales. The fact that you are hung up on blame instead of outcome is a problem, but it ain't mine.
The gun shop gave bad advice. The recipient of that advice now likely (through the OP) knows that it was bad advice. She is likely to remember that fact and tell her friends and family. The gun store is likely to suffer. That means the gun stores hurt their own interests.
Worse, they did that with a customer that had money and interest enough to buy a relatively expensive revolver and actually go to a range with it...a customer that was apparently capable of learning because the OP helped her. Those are the people you want as customers.
You are trying to cast blame, but blame is irrelevant. The outcome is that the store hurt themselves. They likely didn't make a single extra dollar on the initial sale and damaged future sales. The fact that you are hung up on blame instead of outcome is a problem, but it ain't mine.
easyg
Member
What?
How do we know that the gun shop gave bad advice?
Please explain.
Now that she knows it was a bad sale, do you think she will return to that LGS? That is the only question that matters.
Again, it has nothing to do with her being a fool. That is completely irrelevant. What matters is if she got good service and will visit that store again and give it as a recommendation to anyone that asks. My guess is she would not. And that is a lost opportuity for the LGS. Bad salesman bad store. Period.
Ed Ames
Member
My "bad advice" is the same as your assertion she didn't do any research before buying...an assumption. It's based on my opinion that the Judge is a decent 10th or 20th handgun, ideal for people who are jaded by the whole utilitarian self defense gun scene, and my interpretation of the OP's claims.
In reality there are a few options. More than a few. Here are three:
1) 63 year old female first time gun buyer walks into the shop, the shop guides her to (aka advises her to buy) a Taurus judge. That's a store giving bad advice in my book.
2) First time gun owner 63 year old lady did her research, chose a Taurus judge, the store tries to suggest a more suitable alternative, but she's insistent. That's her being an idiot and the store should sell the gun...but also should have, just as car dealerships insists on showing how to turn on the emergency blinkers on a new car even as you tell them you don't need them to, given her a quick run down on how the cylinder latch works and the like. That's a lack of advice (still bad).
3) 63 year old female first time gun owner actually went with her grandson, a gun "expert" with thousands of posts on gun forums, to buy a gun, and grandson tells her to get the Judge because, you know, overpenetration. The store tries to give good advice but they won't hear it. The store is blameless and getting a bad rap unfairly...but that case the grandson probably would have been at the range too and the OP would be griping about him instead of the store so...unlikely.
...but in every case it it is likely to end up hurting the gun store more than anyone else, so the gun store should have spent the time to make a positive impression, which means providing knowledge and building trust. Had they done that, the OP probably wouldn't have created this thread.
In reality there are a few options. More than a few. Here are three:
1) 63 year old female first time gun buyer walks into the shop, the shop guides her to (aka advises her to buy) a Taurus judge. That's a store giving bad advice in my book.
2) First time gun owner 63 year old lady did her research, chose a Taurus judge, the store tries to suggest a more suitable alternative, but she's insistent. That's her being an idiot and the store should sell the gun...but also should have, just as car dealerships insists on showing how to turn on the emergency blinkers on a new car even as you tell them you don't need them to, given her a quick run down on how the cylinder latch works and the like. That's a lack of advice (still bad).
3) 63 year old female first time gun owner actually went with her grandson, a gun "expert" with thousands of posts on gun forums, to buy a gun, and grandson tells her to get the Judge because, you know, overpenetration. The store tries to give good advice but they won't hear it. The store is blameless and getting a bad rap unfairly...but that case the grandson probably would have been at the range too and the OP would be griping about him instead of the store so...unlikely.
...but in every case it it is likely to end up hurting the gun store more than anyone else, so the gun store should have spent the time to make a positive impression, which means providing knowledge and building trust. Had they done that, the OP probably wouldn't have created this thread.
herrwalther
Member
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I agree that a salesman should not equal teacher. There is a reason why firearm safety courses can last 40 or more hours. A salesman cannot be expected to teach every firearm owner that goes out of their shop to be a competition shooter. However, there should have an expectation of common sense. If a 60 year old woman who has never owned a firearm wants a simple firearm for home defense, the salesman should have enough sense to not try to sell that woman a Desert Eagle or a USP .45ACP just to get the commission.
A salesman has other things to do than teach every little nuance about firearm ownership. If a shop owner takes an hour total to help out someone pick a firearm and brief pointers such as recommend a gun cleaner, ammo, how to clean it etc while completing the sale. Then that is a good salesman. It will help the customer feel better and confident about their purchase. I tend to shop at the stores with these types of employees. I may not need as much help as a first time buyer but I support them by coming back.
A salesman has other things to do than teach every little nuance about firearm ownership. If a shop owner takes an hour total to help out someone pick a firearm and brief pointers such as recommend a gun cleaner, ammo, how to clean it etc while completing the sale. Then that is a good salesman. It will help the customer feel better and confident about their purchase. I tend to shop at the stores with these types of employees. I may not need as much help as a first time buyer but I support them by coming back.
justice06rr
Member
Brand snobs are one of my pet peeves. Or maybe "Haters" termed loosely.
Like those who say "my Glock is better than your M&P" or "The AK is better than the AR" etc.
Like those who say "my Glock is better than your M&P" or "The AK is better than the AR" etc.
pockets
Member
Hmmmm....The TORO mower that I bought last month needed assembly and also came with a quart of oil to put in the dry engine.
I did expect it to be that way.
My toaster did not require any lubrication however.
.
oneounceload
member
Just proves that these idiots didn't bother to RTFM before attempting to use it, otherwise they would have read that part about cleaning and lubrication
My pet peeve is the person with the uber mag rifle and muzzle break setting up right next to me when there were 36 other empty positions and the furthest was almost 125 feet away. I had to stop shooting and move away from the bench as the muzzle blast and concussion effect was too painful even with plugs and muffs
Or the dolt who spits hot brass all over you and your gun because he doesn't have a catcher or some form of screen to catch them set up
easyg
Member
It drives me crazy to be the next guy waiting in line to buy while the salesman is taking an hour explaining firearms basics to someone who is completely clueless.
I want to interrupt them and tell the clueless buyer "Go and read some books on guns. Or go and look up some videos on YouTube. Then come back once you've educated yourself a little. AND STOP WASTING EVER ONE"S TIME!".
An hour!
Heck, he would only be able to help approx. 8 customers a day at that rate.
And if he was the only one working the floor you would have folks walking out in frustration.
Imagine if you were third in line....would you stand there and wait two hours to ask about a firearm?
If no one is helping me within 30 minutes of walking in, I will walk out.
Ed Ames
Member
Most shops have more than one person behind the counter.
If you have two counterpeople, three customers, and the first in line needs an hour of one-one-one attention but the average customer takes 10 minutes, the third in line will be helped in 10 minutes.
Also, it is OK to take time with other customers. The last time i went shopping medium-end (over $1000, under $4500) guitars, the salesperson voluntarily spent maybe half a day one-on-one with me...and helped several others along the way. Most people need a few minutes from time to time to form impressions and absorb knowledge anyway so the breaks are good for everyone. That wasn't time I asked him to spend...it was time he wanted to spend because it is good sales service.
If you have two counterpeople, three customers, and the first in line needs an hour of one-one-one attention but the average customer takes 10 minutes, the third in line will be helped in 10 minutes.
Also, it is OK to take time with other customers. The last time i went shopping medium-end (over $1000, under $4500) guitars, the salesperson voluntarily spent maybe half a day one-on-one with me...and helped several others along the way. Most people need a few minutes from time to time to form impressions and absorb knowledge anyway so the breaks are good for everyone. That wasn't time I asked him to spend...it was time he wanted to spend because it is good sales service.
45crittergitter
Member
Folks who don't know the difference between break and brake, or nickel and nickle, or who think most autoloaders are "blowbacks."
fanchisimo
Member
My pet peeve when it comes to firearms is when someone tries to low-ball you if you're selling something. I'm always attempted to arrange a meeting then not show so I at least feel they received some kind of motivation to not low-ball.
I would agree with that too. I think haggling has a place in our economy but I dont like doing it too much. See price, make offer, hear counter offer, accept or walk away.
Seller- Price is $500
Buyer-Can you take $375
Seller-No can do
Buyer-OK. Is $500 your best price
Seller-Yes or no. Doesnt really matter at that point
Buyer-Either accepts that price or walks away.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But when it goes beyond that I get really really irritated. Early in my career I worked a job where haggling was just a way of life. I always struggled with it when it went beyond the above example. Fortunately I have other skills. But I never take it beyond that as a buyer and lose patience quickly after that as a seller.
JRH6856
Member
Just raise the price by the amount he tries to low-ball you.
Seller: "Price is $500."
Buyer: "Will you take $400?
Seller: "No, but now the price is $600. I will take $50 off of that if you're still interested."
Ed Ames
Member
Haggling is touchy. I actually kinda enjoy it, but only if the other person is sane.
What I've found is that enthusiasts are often perceived as "low balling" when they give what they consider a perfectly sensible valuation. E.g. I used to play around with classic cars and at one time I was driving a relatively rare (under 14k ever made, about 25 years earlier) car and found a second that had been in an accident but had some very hard to find parts. The seller wanted $1500. I offered $500. To me that was generous, to the seller it was a massive low-ball. They hemmed and hawed and wouldn't help me load it on my trailer...to them it was an insult but they wanted it gone so they angrily took my offer...but to other collectors of those cars I was an idiot who had paid twice what the parts car was worth. Seriously, I caught flack for paying more than $200-300...and truth be told they were right. A junk dealer would've offered $100 for that car. It's easy to develop a ruthlessly realistic view of the value of stuff if you are an enthusiast.
Non-enthusiasts, on the other hand, almost universally overestimate the value of their stuff. They buy a PC and 5 years later they try to sell it for almost what they paid, and they get all offended when you point out it isn't worth the effort it would take to set it on fire. That's just one of many examples.
I have no problem when a seller sets a price (don't try to get me to make the first offer, you are offering it for sale), and that price is realistic (matched to the market) but if you have a beat up old 10/22, make me ask the price, and ask $500 for it without even trying to make up a story about how it was owned by thomas jefferson or whatever, don't throw a fit when I offer $100...and yeah you can play raise the price games but it just reinforces my view that you have lost touch with reality.
What I've found is that enthusiasts are often perceived as "low balling" when they give what they consider a perfectly sensible valuation. E.g. I used to play around with classic cars and at one time I was driving a relatively rare (under 14k ever made, about 25 years earlier) car and found a second that had been in an accident but had some very hard to find parts. The seller wanted $1500. I offered $500. To me that was generous, to the seller it was a massive low-ball. They hemmed and hawed and wouldn't help me load it on my trailer...to them it was an insult but they wanted it gone so they angrily took my offer...but to other collectors of those cars I was an idiot who had paid twice what the parts car was worth. Seriously, I caught flack for paying more than $200-300...and truth be told they were right. A junk dealer would've offered $100 for that car. It's easy to develop a ruthlessly realistic view of the value of stuff if you are an enthusiast.
Non-enthusiasts, on the other hand, almost universally overestimate the value of their stuff. They buy a PC and 5 years later they try to sell it for almost what they paid, and they get all offended when you point out it isn't worth the effort it would take to set it on fire. That's just one of many examples.
I have no problem when a seller sets a price (don't try to get me to make the first offer, you are offering it for sale), and that price is realistic (matched to the market) but if you have a beat up old 10/22, make me ask the price, and ask $500 for it without even trying to make up a story about how it was owned by thomas jefferson or whatever, don't throw a fit when I offer $100...and yeah you can play raise the price games but it just reinforces my view that you have lost touch with reality.
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+1,000,000
I cant freaking stand that. I was at an eBay conference once and they talked about all of the measures they have in place to battle against that. Yet it still happens. Gunbroker obviously does not have the same type of capital to combat such actions. But they should allow us to report it, take it down, and suspend the sellers.
I have a few. MUZZLE SWEEPING be it at camp ground, shooting ranges, gun shops, pawn shops, or retail stores (walmart) i have been muzzle sweeped well over a thousand times. Tho the gun is unloaded it still makes me very uneasy. The most recent time was in dick's sporting goods and some punk was waving a shotgun around pointing it at his friends and other people.
The next one has to be.......snobs shooting at the range, if you want to spend 5x on ur optics and finish than for the base rifle thats fine just dont expect me to share your views and dont down my choice because its not the same as yours lol, and finally the angry shooter at the range screaming and cursing because he cant hit the target and he wont stop blaming it on the gun. I'm sure its because its a 50$ sling and he didnt go with the 800$ one
The next one has to be.......snobs shooting at the range, if you want to spend 5x on ur optics and finish than for the base rifle thats fine just dont expect me to share your views and dont down my choice because its not the same as yours lol, and finally the angry shooter at the range screaming and cursing because he cant hit the target and he wont stop blaming it on the gun. I'm sure its because its a 50$ sling and he didnt go with the 800$ one
fanchisimo
Member
I'm fine with haggling. For instance what I'm selling I put $390 OBO. $360 is my bottom dollar, but people think they are getting a better deal when you lower the price a little more than flat out telling you what you want. I have gotten several offers of $300, which is way under I'm offering is worth. I have a few friends who low ball on things, and their position there's no harm in trying to get a steal. I called them out to try to convey how insulting to the seller that is, but they don't seem to care since they don't feel any of the sting. Hence, my idea to stand them up on a meeting.
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