Pet Peeves, gun related

[velocette]

I work at a local public shooting range as a range officer. I see on a daily basis a few things that just need attention.
First is guns stores and gun "experts" that sell / recommend to unknowing and unwitting folks the wrong wrong firearm. Usually a tiny .380 or a compact 9mm / .40 / .45. Good guns, but hardly the ones for a new shooter to learn on.
An example I saw yesterday was a 63 year old woman with her first firearm, first time shooter. A gun store sold her a Taurus Judge, .410 / .45 Colt.
Now the .45 Colt is a fine cartridge, been putting bad guys down since 1873.
But a round for a first time elderly female shooter! Not hardly. :banghead: The day before a first time shooter woman of at least 60 shows up with a compact S&W in .40 S&W. A fine pistol, but again not a good training pistol. At MOST a standard sized pistol in 9mm or .38 spl., Easy to shoot easy to control, moderate recoil.
Or sell them .22 auto or revolver. They're a lot better than a bunch of wild shots with a .40. I don't know of many bad (or good) guys that would like to be shot with a .22. (And a .22 is a lot better than "Please mister, don't hurt me.)

Second, Manufacturers, Please ship you new firearms with proper lubrication in place. It happens almost every day, a new shooter with his prized new whiz-bang firearm. It wont run, it jams, it fails to feed, it stops every two rounds. They call me over in frustration and rage about this gun is a piece of *^$$^. I work the action and it feels like its full of sand. I field strip it and it is DRY, dry like the Sahara desert.
We keep a can of gun lube at the range just for these poor folks that don't know any better. I use the lube and show them how to lube their weapon and suddenly the &$$^& firearm runs just fine.
That weapon should have left the factory with proper lubrication. The new customers and new gun owners expect their new gun to work just like their new car, new toaster, new lawn mower. They do NOT expect to have to disassemble it, lubricate it, clean metal shavings out of it or do anything but put ammo in it.

Rant over for now.
Roger

 

[Thursday45]

Most manuals tell you to clean and oil a weapon upon purchase before first firing. Reason is is that are usually coated in shipping grease for shipping. A firearm isn't a car. It isn't lawn mower or a toaster. It's a firearm and it should be treated like a firearm.

 

[OilyPablo]

63 year old woman ......elderly female shooter

63? She's not THAT old. A lot of 63 year old people are in great shape.

But, I do agree. Start her with a .38Special. I've seen gun counter jockeys sell 10mm Glock 29's to guys who had never fired a gun before, for "bear protection".

Lubrication? Most so called internet experts don't know didly about lube and we argue for pages. But really, if you purchase a firearm, I think you should take it down, clean it, lube it, repeat - BEFORE you fire it. This has nothing to do with lubrication and everything to do with familiarization.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Well, I see both sides there. No the Judge wouldn't be a good first choice FOR ME to learn on, but at the same time maybe she did hold every gun in the shop and that's the one that felt right to her and her hands. Since she's older and just starting, I'm sure she was in the mindset of "this is is my keeper gun, I'll never have another, and this will fit my nightstand needs for the next 30 years." In that case, it could have been a case of buy the gun you'll keep and learn to use it well.
At least the lady is out there doing it. Good for her.

 

[r1derbike]

velocette, thanks for taking the time to show and educate newbs about their firearms, safety, and maintenance.

My wife's first powder burner she got a month or so back was a .38 special ultra lite (17 oz.). She picked this one over all others she tried because she can't rack slides (even on small pistols, and I didn't want her to have a .380 anyway) and she was just fine with the recoil, not so with a heavier SP101 with 3 in. barrel with .357 mags. (it beat me up a wee bit too, but I'm used to recoil with my XD-S). She loved the lack of recoil with .38 special rounds in the Ruger, but it was too heavy for her, darn it! I really wanted her to have the Ruger! Selfishness kicked in there.

I did install Hogue grips so she had a place to put her pinky, and it also shortened the reach to the trigger a bit for her as well.

So, having tried 8 or so sidearms out, she more or less picked the one she needed. She would have gotten a .38 special bodyguard, but there were none anywhere at that time I could find.

Took her to the range last week for the first time (finally found some ammo online), and she had a blast. Only complaint, trigger a bit heavy DA, but I'll break that in for her with some dry firing at home, before next outing.

In the end, she made the decision I was happy she made, but it was hers alone. She can't put it down!

 

[velocette]

Thursday.45;
Sadly, most of the ones I see are totally devoid of any lubricant, preservative grease, etc. When I say dry, man I mean DRY.
I do agree, that a firearm is not a car nor a toaster etc. But that's NOT what the first time shooter thinks. Nor do they have any understanding of a firearms maintenance. Their belief is that it is new and should be ready to rock n roll. IM(nv)HO when they leave the factory, they should be ready to go.
I see the dry guns almost every day and certainly every weekend. The new shooter is amazed that the gun needed lubrication.
I know and you know (and most of the folks on this forum know) that a new firearm should be field stripped, inspected, lubricated and fired with good quality ammunition. Regardless of what the owners manual may or may not say, the guns continue to show up on the line dry and malfunctioning. And don't get me started on the shoddy reloads sold at guns shows and some gun stores.

Roger

 

[Fremmer]

It would be nice if the retail shop would lube a gun up for you before you took it home. Then again, some people are real particular about how it's done.

The manufacturer won't do much more than grease because they don't know how long the gun will sit in inventory, and lube drys out.

 

[Hurryin' Hoosier]

63? She's not THAT old. A lot of 63 year old people are in great shape.

But, I do agree. Start her with a .38Special. I've seen gun counter jockeys sell 10mm Glock 29's to guys who had never fired a gun before, for "bear protection".

Lubrication? Most so called internet experts don't know didly about lube and we argue for pages. But really, if you purchase a firearm, I think you should take it down, clean it, lube it, repeat - BEFORE you fire it. This has nothing to do with lubrication and everything to do with familiarization.

"63" = "elderly"? How'd some pup feel about having a 64-year-old eat his lunch?

 

[r1derbike]

Yeah, my wife's .38 special had thin grease in the barrel and cylinder bores. A bit of light oil continues to work it's way down the trigger, so at least they had the good sense to lube the trigger/hammer assembly, and it feels like it.

It took me a dozen or so patches to clean the bores of grease, but it was expected. At least one manufacturer did it right.

 

[CSG]

This is why new shooters need to be educated before buying a gun. Most aren't. I don't expect or want a shop to do anything for me but sell a non mis-handled gun.

Gotta remember, to youngsters, folks in their 60's are ancient. When we were young we felt the same way.

Behind *my* eyes, I'm still 30.

 

[Shuler13]

I have twice bought pistols that the shop offered to clean and lube on the spot. One I took them up on it as I was headed to the range. Had they not offered, I wouldn't have asked and I would have shot other pistols that day, but this is one of those things that a B&M gun store can do to earn business over online retailers, especially with new shooters.

 

[bikerdoc]

Since I retired I work a few hours a day at a LGS. Boss would give good butt chewing to anyone that sold a gun that was inappropriate.
We are also instructed to teach the customer, how to break down and clean, and the weapon, either watching us or doing it themselves while we watch.

 

[smalls]

A compact .40 or whatever wouldn't be my furst recommendation, either. But who are you to say it isn't a good fit for her? Did you talk to her? She may have came in and said "I want a compact .40" for all you know.

 

[OilyPablo]

Since I retired I work a few hours a day at a LGS. Boss would give good butt chewing to anyone that sold a gun that was inappropriate.
We are also instructed to teach the customer, how to break down and clean, and the weapon, either watching us or doing it themselves while we watch.

That's pretty cool - good idea.

 

[wep45]

Pet Peeves, gun related

new shooters at an indoor range who are not properly supervised. no regard for range etiquette,:banghead: little/no knowledge of firearm safety.

 

[Bob M.]

new shooters at an indoor range who are not properly supervised. no regard for range etiquette, little/no knowledge of firearm safety.

This is also why I don't like some of the indoor ranges. No/little supervision.

 

[beatledog7]

Caliber critics. Enough said.

 

[Agsalaska]

Caliber critics. Enough said.

+1



Also, the arrogant attitudes found in a lot of LGS's and in the industry in general. I think the firearms industry in general has very bad customer service skills. I don't think average LGS Clerks and even owners understand how valuable customers are. Or if they do they do not understand how to keep them.

 

[Snowdog]

My latest pet peeve is the description "new" or "new in box" when obviously it is not.

Whenever I read a Gunbroker item description as "only a few magazines shot through this pistol, owner decided he/she wanted something different, new in box", it chafes me. It shouldn't, but it does.

New does not mean at-one-time-new-but-now-slightly-used. New means new.

 

[Arp32]

At the range last week after a session, buddy says:

"Check out my new XYZ 9mm subcompact." Hands me a top heavy little thing I can't even get a pinky finger on.

"That's cool, not for be though. I like my j frame for carry."

"This is thinner, lighter, holds more rounds, night sights, blah blah blah..."

"That's nice."

"Trust me. You need one of these. You should just sell the Smith and buy this. It's so much better. I wouldn't even carry a revolver."

I wish I were exaggerating.

 

[gamestalker]

I definitely see your point and feel your frustration, but, I think in that regard it has much less to do with lube and clean issues. the shop selling the firearm should actually take the new gun owner aside, and teach them how to break down and clean / lube their new self defense weapon.

And absolutely, they should take a more professional approach to helping a first timer, younger or older, in helping them to choose the right firearm for their abilities, and experience level. This isn't something that has a standard applied to it, such as, a 38 spcl. is the right gun for every new comer, not so. Help them to access their particular needs, be honest with them in informing them that this firearm is going to produce a substantial amount of recoil, or this one isn't going to. Pros and cons should be explained in terms they can understand. And ask them if they know someone who owns a few SD guns that they might be able to test run, before randomly choosing one.

I worked in the gun sales industry, and I always felt I had a personal and professional responsibility in this respect. I carry high recoil SD weapons, but that's not something I would try to sell an inexperienced would be gun owner, and unless they came in with their mind made up.

GS

 

[MagnumWill]

Arp32, ^^^ recite that last quote he tells you defy time it stovepipes or double feeds

 

[velocette]

Smalls;
I spent over an hour with the woman, one on one. Walking her through dry fire, how to tell if the gun was loaded, difference in the ammunition she bought, how the revolver worked, safety, gun handling etc. She had not one idea about how to load the revolver, how to fire it, what its safety features were, not nothin!
She had not one clue. NOT ONE about any of the above. She didn't know what she had bought. The dude at the gunstore told her that the Judge was the right weapon for her.
Mind you, I do NOT get paid to do this. I took time from supervising a line of about 20 shooters to help train this woman, in between line checks, brass cleanups and incoming firearm checks.
What I complain about is that what I saw and dealt with is NOT unusual nor uncommon.
The woman was both frightened of the firearm and determined to learn how to defend herself. Her courage and determination was exemplary. The dude that sold her the .45 Colt firearm was not.

Roger

 

[OilyPablo]

velocette - you are a scholar and a gentleman of the highest order.

 

[Arp32]

Arp32, ^^^ recite that last quote he tells you defy time it stovepipes or double feeds

Oh I already felt ok because earlier in the day I got to ask him, "what was that, I thought you said it wasn't possible for a Glock to jam?"

I wouldn't have said anything if he hasn't ragged on every gun I own...