Gun shot in your house.

[Warhawk83]

Down the hall to my sons is the first place I'm going, even if I had no weapon available. I don't think you'll find a parent that wouldn't do the same, if they wouldn't they don't need a kid.

 

[mcdonl]

Any gunshots not caused by a BG would have to be pretty deliberate and with my knowledge as my room contains all the firearms, none of which are loaded. The shotgun, however, takes a second to grab a shell off the stock, and load.

You might want to give this a little more thought. *IF* there was already a gun shot fired, a second (Which I bet 10-15 seconds is more like it....) may be too long. I keep my carry gun loaded, round chambered in my night stand and my carbine, loaded round NOT chambered under my bed. Even given this, I feel as though it would be an uphill battle if I am awoken by a gun fight.

 

[YaNi]

Assume your children's rooms are on the other side of the house. Do you grap your weapon and make a bonzai charge, or clear the rooms/hallways that take you to your children?

 

[eric.cartman]

Saiga 12 + 20 round drum full of 00. G19 in pants.
I WILL GET TO MY BABY BOY OR I WILL DIE DOING IT.
If I make it, it is likely there will be body parts between his and my bedroom (assuming BG(s) present).

Simple as that. Time to ask questions has passed.

 

[Warhawk83]

My kid's rooms are on the other side and just like Cartman said, I'm grabbing my scatter gun and .40 and booking it to them. If I have to die so my wife and kids can live that is fine with me.

 

[chieftain]

The BG has to come down a hallway.

Remember the BG has a vote and veto authority. He may not follow your plan. Be prepared with plan ‘B’, always. And when you have switched to Plan ‘B’ be ready with ‘C’.

You will also find out the SOB probably doesn’t want to die, and wants to kill/hurt you and your loved ones and will simply refuse to do what you wanted him to. Remember he is a criminal and a beast, he doesn’t think like you or me.

I can only hope and pray that our simple plans (I grab my .45 and literally stand in the doorway of our room (which is at a right angle to the hallway, giving me a little concealment) while the wife gets on the phone) will be enough.

If things are that close and critical, I would strongly advise you to get a shoulder weapon that is much more likely to finish the fight much quicker and with a lot more authority than any handgun.

DO NOT PLAN ON YOUR SIDEARM STOPPING THE BAD GUY, REGARDLESS OF CALIBER OR THE MAGIC BULLETS YOU USE. OR THE TRAINING YOU HAVE HAD Particularly at close range. Get a shoulder weapon. Train and do quality practice with it. It is much easier to hit with in a fight, and most often makes a great baseball bat. (My weapon of choice at contact ranges, you simply cannot imagine the stopping power of a vertical or horizontal butt stroke.)

Has anyone ever actually carried out a night HD drill? Get a friend to enter the home through a window or door and see how the situation plays out. It would seem this would provide two valuable viewpoints. The defender gets the HD practice and the attacker can assess the HD effectiveness.

Yes! In fact I have for me and done it for buddies too. The problem is we can’t kick in the door or break the windows. And be very careful if you try the drill when your buddy is sleeping. He will probably be coming up “HOT”. Actually the accused me of that.

Make no mistake, “practicing” coming out of a deep sleep with your wife and kids screaming will be one of those extreme experiences that will rattle your world, for ever. Even in a drill particularly that first time. Adds a lot to the confusion and potential panic, that will often degrade your fighting ability.

If i had kids I'd grab the weapon i'm good with and tell my wife to barricade the door and call 911 once i left, then go into my kids room and barricade the door and wait for the police to arrive.

I would grab the most effective weapon I could. And as I have time to prepare, that will be a shoulder weapon. Do not trust handguns as your primary weapon for home defense. There are much better and in fact many are far cheaper weapons to win that fight with.

Personally if your kids are separated, your wife will probably ignore you and go to her kids. I would plan to move with my wife, with the cell phone. Either calling on the move or immediately after getting to the kids room. Then with the family together, defend the kids room. That sounds like the natural flow in your situation.

Don’t try to fight human nature. In a all out survival situation folks will revert to their training and often bypass that and go back to natural instincts. A mother will normally “have to” go to her kids, whether you like it or not. Use it.

Otherwise that unplanned body coming through the door that you just shot, may be your wife, doing what comes instinctively to her. Don’t set yourself up for failure.

I have to work with what I have, and it is often far from ideal. The kids may be on the other side of the house. I may have to clear at least one stairwell just to get to them, things like that.

We all have to work with what we have. And what we have is usually are far from ideal. Nothing unique or unusual here, almost all of us are in that boat.

With that said, exactly why are you clearing stairwells while your kids are in trouble? Move to them. AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

Well the important thing is to have a plan, then review it or try it and see if there are any obvious holes in it. My advice if you have kids would be to get a single switch that you can wire that lights up the hallways so that you can clearly see whether or not someone is there and WHO that someone is.

Having a plan is very important. Hopefully it is a good and well developed plan. Remember though, the Bad Guys get a vote and veto to every element of your plan.

I disagree about the lights. This is an area of legitimate debate. I argue I want the BG kept in the dark on my ground, to my advantage. If I light up the whole house, now he can see where stuff, corners and rooms are as well. No, I like a dark house and I use lights to my advantage from my hand held and weapons lights, both are necessary. (I use a strobe effect quite effectively.)

Some folks must light up their homes for various other reasons, and simply don’t have a choice. Then you must adjust your plan accordingly. Remember most homes if you choose to light it up, can also be observed from the outside more easily too.

There is no perfect ground to fight on. But if it is your ground, prepare it as much as possible to your advantage, then have adequate fire power to quickly finish the fight. That means shoulder weapons. Not weak cheese handguns, of any caliber. (remember the word practical in all your preparations. You have to live day to day in your house too. There are ALWAYS compromises. You get to choose)

There's an ancient saying with applicability here: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Secure your property and your home first, before worrying about how to react to an intrusion at a point where you are already far, far behind the power curve.

Well said sir. Said with much more class than I can normally muster.

Even given this, I feel as though it would be an uphill battle if I am awoken by a gun fight.

The good part is you get to make the hill less steep if you prepare properly and appropriately.

All Defensive fights are uphill. Otherwise it wouldn’t be a defensive fight. Offensive fights are much easier, at least at the beginning, until you may have to go defensive. (you get to pick the time, place and manner of the attack when you are doing the attacking. Or at least several of those elements.) In a defensive fight, the BG has chosen the place, time, and manner of attack. The Bad Guy will most often try to make it to his advantage and your disadvantage.

Remember the attacker(s) ALWAYS HAVE THE INTUITIVE at the beginning of the fight. Your job is to get inside his/their OODA (Observe, Orient, Decide, Act) and seize the initiative from him/them and counter attack him/them forcing him/them to go at least defensive (and do this as quickly as possible). This is not high tea with the Queen. This is an ugly, brutal, vicious, deadly, radical, extreme, response to being attacked, often from a dead sleep often with your wife and kids screaming. Frankly, Most folks don’t do it well, unless they have trained for it or had a lot of experience with this sort of thing.

Also don’t expect to get out unscathed. If you are worrying about getting hurt or killed, you may never gain the initiative. Real life ain’t like TV or the Movies.

Being attacked while wide awake is no picnic either. At least you should already be oriented and on your feet and hopefully armed (CCW). But understand you are often not on your own ground.

Assume your children's rooms are on the other side of the house. Do you grap your weapon and make a bonzai charge, or clear the rooms/hallways that take you to your children?

Banzai, all the way. What in the hell do you want to clear for? If your kids are in eminent danger move to your kids! To clear a room PROPERLY, takes a fair amount of time particularly if you are foolish enough to do it by yourself. Not like when you are playing at IDPA. When nasty folks may be around that corner that can possibly be shooting back, you will be going very slowly. If you aren’t, you are wasting your time and adding to your loved one’s risk.

Saiga 12 + 20 round drum full of 00. G19 in pants.
I WILL GET TO MY BABY BOY OR I WILL DIE DOING IT.
If I make it, it is likely there will be body parts between his and my bedroom (assuming BG(s) present).

Simple as that. Time to ask questions has passed.

BINGO!

OORAH my brother. That is exactly how it must be done. Aggressive and determined, turn the tide, attack the attackers! And if you get to your kids room, remember your wife will probably come barging through that door soon too. (Even in heavy military combat, most mother's will risk everything, including their lives, to get to their kids. Don't expect you kids mom, to wait in another part of the house either. You are working against thousands of years of ingrained instinct there. Even though several folks here don't get it, the primary job is to protect the kids, mother's do get it. Get to the kids as quickly as possible.)

My kid's rooms are on the other side and just like Cartman said, I'm grabbing my scatter gun and .40 and booking it to them. If I have to die so my wife and kids can live that is fine with me.

BINGO!

Once again, if you are planning on not being hurt or killed in a fight, you are already at a major disadvantage.

Real Life Gun fighting, isn’t for grins and giggles. Even a totally incompetent BG doing everything wrong can get lucky and kill you or yours. That is why it must be finished as fast as you can. SHOULDER WEAPONS! Time is of the essence.

And once again The FBI and Dr Gary Roberts, the leading terminal ballistics researcher in America today in regards to weapons to use/select:

Keeping in mind that handguns generally offer poor incapacitation potential, bullets with effective terminal performance are available in all of the most commonly used duty pistol calibers—pick the one that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, and best suits you likely engagement scenarios.

-- Keep shooting until the threat is neutralized; absent CNS hits, incapacitation is very frequently DELAYED until blood loss is sufficient to cause the onset of hypovolemic shock (bleeds out) --this could be seconds, minutes, or hours...

-- If you are in a potential threat situation where you are feeling unusually suspicious, your senses are on high alert, you have "alarm bells going off" in your head, etc... if at all possible, it is time to employ a long gun instead of a handgun.

--Dr Gary Roberts Leading American terminal ballistics researcher.

* * *
The cogent advice by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU should be routinely heeded:

“Experienced officers implicitly recognize...when potential violence is reasonably anticipated their preparations are characterized by obtaining as many shoulder weapons as possible.”
and
“...no law enforcement officer should ever plan to meet an expected attack armed only with a handgun.”

You have until you are attacked to do reconnaissance, plan, prepare your layered defenses, harden you dwelling where and when possible, train, train some more, quality practice, not just shooting targets at the local range for fun. Get the weapons that will give you an advantage in the brutal fight that may happen. Learn how to fight and fight to win.

And after all this BS, I want to say, I hope and pray none of you ever have to “test” your plan or yourselves. Even winning this fight you lose. Particularly your family.

Some folks who have had firefights in their homes, their kids and often the wife, or for that matter the Good guy himself are never the same again. It is that pervasive and invasive in their lives.

It’s America, so far it is still your choice.

Go figure.

Fred

 

[eric.cartman]

chieftain,
I see you and I are on the same page. I like that

You're spot on about shoulder weapon. I like my saiga a lot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m75kviRzT6s and I'm darn good with it

And I'm defending the most innocent and beautiful of all creatures:

 

[chieftain]

Cartman,

Good looking kid. And definitely worth putting it all on the line for.

I am from Melbourne originally, where are you?

Good luck.

Fred

 

[Shadow 7D]

I would disagree with the banzai rush, which is how you do it, if you do it.

My point is when you wake up and arm yourself, listen, you know your house sounds and if it isn't a mansion (in which case your ex mosad secured should have gotten the BG already) listening should give you and Idea of where the BG is.

Now gunshots in my baby's room will get everything that isn't the crib ventilated period.
Otherwise I practice staying low and moving quietly until I can get a nice shot, and no I don't yell or ask questions, or turn on lights, I keep night lights because the provide enough light to not trip if you know the house. I don't really worry about Identification because my kid can't (yet) make it out of the crib, so if it goes bump and ain't 2 feet tall, it ain't friendly. But I am working on quick blinks because one day he will be big enough to make bumps in the night.

 

[gallo]

Two suggestions for all those who have yet o hear shots inside the house or wake up to a bumping noise:
1. Change all bedroom doors to solid core with deabbolts and teach your kids to lock them at night. Keep a key to all doors.

2. If possible, if your bedroom is next to your kid's room, build a discrete half door to communicate both rooms. This is better than having to walk into the hallway to get to your kid's room.

 

[chieftain]

I would disagree with the banzai rush, which is how you do it, if you do it.

Now gunshots in my baby's room will get everything that isn't the crib ventilated period.

Otherwise I practice staying low and moving quietly until I can get a nice shot, and no I don't yell or ask questions, or turn on lights, I keep night lights because the provide enough light to not trip if you know the house. I don't really worry about Identification because my kid can't (yet) make it out of the crib, so if it goes bump and ain't 2 feet tall, it ain't friendly. But I am working on quick blinks because one day he will be big enough to make bumps in the night.

Get to the kids. As fast as you can. Rationalizations don’t solve the problem, as fast as you can movement does. Time is of the essences in this type situation. You don't want to be in the situation where you meet the bad guys coming out of your baby's room, because you are to late, and you were busy doing "other things" besides getting to your childs defense.

Trying to create a meeting engagement with the bad guys in your own home in the dark, if it can be avoided at all, makes no sense. Much better and to your advantage to meet them in prepared ground where they are coming into the strength of your defenses and firepower.

I doubt you could tell which room had a shot fired in it out side the room you are in, particularly in the dark as it may well be what woke you up. Even in your own house.

The bad guys appreciate the night lights too. But they may be necessary in your dwelling for health or other such reasons. I prefer to keep my place dark.

Once you do begin to move, were is your wife? My bet is that whether you told her to or not, she is moving to the baby as she need to be. As you should be too. Be careful who you start shooting at, also if 911 has been contacted, local LEO’s may be entering your dwelling through the same breach the bad guys had made.

Follow the rules of the gun, particularly in a firefight. Make damn sure of who you are shooting at, particularly in the dark. "OOPS, I thought all the moving shapes were bad guys", will not keep you from having a new roommate called BUBBA. That is a rookie mistake. It ain't ever going to be that easy, but it will be that fast. And friendly fire, ain't.

Learn, and take low light and night fighting training courses, and practice those techniques. Thinking you can do it and doing it is two very different worlds. You can learn to do it. Or as Nike is want to say, JUST DO IT!

My suggestion is for you and your wife to move as a unit as fast as you can, with you taking point, and your wife calling 911 once the baby’s room is reached. Then you defend them both with your prepared defenses and superior fire power, of course shoulder weapons should be used to accomplish that.

It’s America, it is your choice.

Go figure.

Fred

 

[Fred Fuller]

I mention this repeatedly, but since it hasn't been brought up here yet-

GET TRAINING!

Making it up as you go along is not a good recipe for success. Take a look at http://www.nrainstructors.org/CourseCatalog.aspx and specifically at Personal Protection In The Home. The NRA offers the nation's largest group of certified instructors and there is a locator tool on this page so you can see if there is a PPITH class near you.

Failing that, the classroom portion of the course is available on DVD - http://materials.nrahq.org/go/product.aspx?productid=ES 26840 . And the text is also available - http://www.nrastore.com/nra/Product.aspx?productid=PB+01781 . There are other useful products available in the same vein - http://www.paladin-press.com/product/129/73 . If you can't get training- at least get prepared mentally and physically to be better able to handle nasty surprises in your own home. You need to have a plan in place that efficiently imposes you and your chosen firearm between any possible threat and the rest of your family BEFORE said threat can reach them. "Failing to plan is planning to fail."

Once again- it is foolish in the extreme to make preparations to fight a battle inside your home if you have not spent at least the same amount of thought, energy, time and money making your home less inviting and less vulnerable to criminals. Secure your property and your home against intrusion to the point no one can approach or get inside without your knowing about it.

No, it's not as much fun as talking about drum magazines and banzaii charges- but it works better.

lpl

 

[mbt2001]

Far more important than training is the ability to see and tell friend from foe. Wire a light switch bank that with a flew flicks lights up the house.

 

[eric.cartman]

Fred,
I'm from all over the place. Born and raised in Poland. Now I live in S.FL. but used to in NJ, NC, NYC.

And yes, Nick is super cute. I wonder sometimes how I managed to father such an angel

 

[YaNi]

Wouldn't it still be beneficial to have your house lit up like a Christmas tree? You wouldn't have to mess with tactical flashlights and night sights, and most importantly target identification is much easier. You still know the layout of your house better than your enemy. You can still use the layout to your advantage, but when you come barreling around a corner in a race to reach your kids and theres a BG there, you know immediately its a badguy and not your wife, children, or police. Who cares that someone outside can see you? There's an immediate threat in your house!

 

[Nickotym]

There's an ancient saying with applicability here: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Secure your property and your home first, before worrying about how to react to an intrusion at a point where you are already far, far behind the power curve.

With the way our house is gonna be set up, prevention is going to be key. I plan to put a small door between all bedrooms so the kids can come through those without going out in the hallway. Hard part will be to keep them clear and instill in the kids they are only for emergency, not playing with friends. Will have to do something to make so they close silently and automatically after going through them.

Gotta find a good, reasonable costing burglar system as well.

 

[B yond]

There is absolutely nothing in this world capable of stopping me from getting to my child. I will NEVER assume my child is down and barricade myself, EVER.

We've all heard the stories of small women who can suddenly lift vehicles to save their children. There is a will to protect one's offspring that words can not adequately describe. The limitations of the human body do not exist when your child is in danger.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Like I said, gunshots will get me to my child's room as quickly as possible, the bonzia rush works because it is unexpected.

On the other hand, running blindly in to an armed BG does nothing, hence the get oriented, call 911 and move slowly, BG will not expect someone expecting them, maybe holed up, but not a moving target. Its not hunting them, rather moving to the child in the way least likely to start a gunfight as that is a bad outcome, best is getting the drop and holding them for the cops or them running away and getting caught.