You hear a noise in the middle of the night (kids in the house)

[Bexar]

This is true just about everywhere. In 20 years working in this area I can remember just one home invasion that didn't involve someone looking to rip off someone's drugs or someone who had some kind of conflict with someone living in the house.

That incident involved an older couple who ran a shop. It was rumored that they kept a large amount of cash in a safe in their home. One Tuesday night two masked men kicked in the front door about 10pm slugged the man who lived there and forced him to open the safe. Then tied him and his wife up with duct tape and left. I was working that night and we were there withing 2 minutes of the 911 call after the wife broke free. The robbers were long gone and despite some very hard looks at a couple family members who knew about the money, they were never caught.

Like I said, very few people have to worry about a home invasion like the one portrayed in the video. Considering it was from Houston and they did have a rash of drug related home invasions like that I can see where they got the idea, but to put that on the news probably scared a whole lot of people who had nothing to worry about.

X-Rap said;


Guns and lights and a solid dog are good things to have. And for some reason that's the first thing everyone thinks about when this subject comes up. But the first thing you should think about is making your home physically secure so that you have enough time to deploy your neat "tactical" tools.

Good doors and locks, exterior lighting and landscaping certainly aren't as neat as guns, flashlights and dogs but they are so much more important.

If someone is breaking into your home in the middle of the night like was represented in the video, you are going to die in your bed before you have time to employ the gun you keep at your bedside unless you make it hard enough for them to gain entry that you have time to wake up from REM sleep, figure out what's happening and react.

Think layers of security. if you have a driveway, an alarm at the end of it so you can tell when someone drives up. Motion detector lights on the outside of the house. Some means of limiting access to ground floor and basement windows and good exterior doors and locks. Once those measures are in place, you can sleep soundly knowing that the chances of you being surprised in your sleep are pretty slight. Everyone needs a place where they can safely go to condition white and relax.

We had and still may be having but I'm not in that business environment anymore where jewelry store, check cashing stores and gun stores owners were being home-invaded by up to four individuals and the homeowner kidnapped and returned to the store. Knew four people it happened to. That may have been the reason they tried to get into our house as that is the time a lot of this was starting. The owner of the store did have his door kicked in by four we later had determined had been in the store by the store video. He had gotten into a gun fight but the thugs ran out. Unfortunately his Dog (God bless her) followed them out and they shot and killed her.

Another store owner was in his home in far west Houston and he was killed by former employees attempting to kidnap him.

Another store manager on the same side of town was successfully kidnapped and taken back to the store and they were after guns.

There were also groups raiding homes dressed as LEOs screaming "Police" "FBI" "DEA" etc. The homeowners of course by the time they figured it out were way past any chance of being able to defend themselves.

After two attempts on our house...one while we were away...and our neighbors across the street who are also in their sixties/seventies having had their home kick burglar attempted our door is steel re-enforced and we've got enough Labrador to mangle at least one of them now.

The others above lived in neighborhoods that are normally so quiet only occasionally does a dog bark at anything more threatening than a squirrel.

 

[DP03]

We had and still may be having but I'm not in that business environment anymore where jewelry store, check cashing stores and gun stores owners were being home-invaded by up to four individuals and the homeowner kidnapped and returned to the store. Knew four people it happened to. That may have been the reason they tried to get into our house as that is the time a lot of this was starting. The owner of the store did have his door kicked in by four we later had determined had been in the store by the store video. He had gotten into a gun fight but the thugs ran out. Unfortunately his Dog (God bless her) followed them out and they shot and killed her.

Another store owner was in his home in far west Houston and he was killed by former employees attempting to kidnap him.

Another store manager on the same side of town was successfully kidnapped and taken back to the store and they were after guns.

There were also groups raiding homes dressed as LEOs screaming "Police" "FBI" "DEA" etc. The homeowners of course by the time they figured it out were way past any chance of being able to defend themselves.

After two attempts on our house...one while we were away...and our neighbors across the street who are also in their sixties/seventies having had their home kick burglar attempted our door is steel re-enforced and we've got enough Labrador to mangle at least one of them now.

The others above lived in neighborhoods that are normally so quiet only occasionally does a dog bark at anything more threatening than a squirrel.

Wow, I knew Houston was bad, but........

Also, for the alarm folks, keep up with the technology. If you're still dealing with old hardwired solutions, make sure they are done right. Every burglar now days knows to circle the house and cut wires. They are very easy to identify. Hopefully there is a cell/wifi backup.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Did anyone mention motion detectors and alarms?
Kind of like having a dog but without needing to feed it or take it to the vet.
A thump heard in the night, without a motion detector going off usually means it's just the refrigerator, the wind, or a racoon on the roof wearing army boots.

Can't the bad guys disable an alarm system by cutting the electricity?

 

[X-Rap]

Yea, your occupation can be a detriment. Gunshops, Pawnshops, Potshops, Jewelry, anyplace where there is a lot of cash or valuables makes you a target.
Social media where you might flash to much of what you have could also bring down criminal behavior.
Former employees or even current for that matter can have a grudge against you for termination or prosperity.
I've mentioned before how worthless even the best safe is when someone in your family has a gun to their head.
If you have a business or a hobby in which you do a lot of cash deals you are vulnerable.

 

[old lady new shooter]

There were also groups raiding homes dressed as LEOs screaming "Police" "FBI" "DEA" etc. The homeowners of course by the time they figured it out were way past any chance of being able to defend themselves.

Once when my bell rang at night the person at the door appeared to be a police officer. I asked him to please shine his flashlight on his badge so I could see he was a real police officer, which he did. He was looking for some bad guys who had done something nearby and was asking neighbors whether we saw anything.

Now after hanging out here for a few weeks I'm wondering whether a police officer in high stress mode (which this officer wasn't) would get upset about being asked to shine his flashlight on his badge. ???

 

[Bexar]

Can't the bad guys disable an alarm system by cutting the electricity?

Most have battery back-up. That's what alerted us. My Wife and I sleep in different but adjacent rooms. Our 10 year old Daughter (now 26) slept/sleeps in the next room beside mine. I'm a night person and often am awake at night. Anyway, I thought I heard someone walking on the back attached porch. I'm thinking really fat raccoon when my Wife comes to my door and says she heard someone walk across the back porch. I'm ramping up the warning color bars in my awareness and then our metal breaker box door gets opened making that dry metal on metal "crunch" sound. Boom...goes about a quart of adrenaline and testosterone and I told her to get the baby and get in the tub. I racked my 1911 and the guy must have heard it and took off. He could be heard running back across the porch.

Anyway...I seriously would not recommend racking any weapon because like a third down long yardage pass three things can happen and two of them are bad.

I didn't keep a round in the chamber thinking our ten year old Daughter couldn't rack the slide and chamber a round if curiosity got the best of her or one of her friends somehow got ahold of it. During the A and T dump I didn't think the racking slide might draw fire from an escaping thug.

Anyway...anyway...I hope this thread remains a purely academic exercise for everyone and not a practical lab primer. Stay safe everyone.

 

[Bexar]

Wow, I knew Houston was bad, but........

Also, for the alarm folks, keep up with the technology. If you're still dealing with old hardwired solutions, make sure they are done right. Every burglar now days knows to circle the house and cut wires. They are very easy to identify. Hopefully there is a cell/wifi backup.

Many violent felons are brought to Houston to be half-way housed out. We have more than several major prison complexes within 60 miles of west Houston and they get cut loose regularly. The largest complexes, as large as an international airport, are less than twenty miles away.

We also are a major I-10...I-45...I-59 drug hub from Florida...Mexico and the local meth and bathtub brew labs. The estimated 600,000 illegals and proximity to Mexico doesn't help as it gives any of the small percentage that come here for nefarious reasons a place to run to. Pronto quick. Please let me emphasize...small percentage. But even a small percentage of 600,000 anything is a lot.

The feeling of being anonymous is also a factor. In the two small one high school towns I spent many years in most people knew who everyone was and everyone's business. In a complex metro of the fourth largest city in the country I just learned my next door neighbors names after they have lived here twenty years. And that's because their daughter put our similar street address down as theirs and I or my Wife have to re-deliver their mail.

Anyway...Most people move here for jobs and look forward to the day they can get the heck out more than they think about retiring here. The vast majority of our extended family on both sides have refused to move back to Houston or let their recent college graduate kids move here for gold or glory. I hate this town with every fiber of my body; however, I'm stuck by circumstance for another five years.

 

[.455_Hunter]

My house makes tons of noises at night- Expansion/contraction pops, animals under the house, animals on the roof, snow falling on roof...

This is why we have an IDS to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

 

[C.R.]

I had a couple of goofball friends stop by late one night,and they thought it would be funny to "roust" me. all of the sudden the back door of the house came flying open,and I rolled outta bed,grabbed the old Mossberg 500 and racked the slide to chamber a live round(no kiddos just me,and the dog) the boys heard that Loud and Clear and were almost crying . Oh $#1T dont freaking shoot!!! Needless to say after things were straightened out my friends decided to call before stopping by. that could have been tragic but luckly for all concerned nothing worse than a scare.

 

[RustyShackelford]

What to do & not to do.....

There are different points from different members with different backgrounds or views.
If you are serious about a home security plan or "what to do" in a critical incident, not just casual interest or "my neighbor's brother's barber's cousin" said was a good idea. Here are a few points to consider in no specific order or list:
I'd consider a decent well made DA only pistol or 3"-4" barrel .357mag/.38spl revolver. Something like a SIG DAK P229R, Walther PPQ, S&W SD9VE, Glock 22/23 .40, HK P30 or P2000 LEM(law enforcement modification), XDm, FNS full or compact.
You want a simple, robust weapon that's safe & easy to use(shoot) with either hand in low light conditions.
You can add a white-light(weapon light) or red/green laser. This can aid you in IDing threats or to see down halls, doorways, etc.
Some gun owners add extended pistol magazines too but I don't think that's a mandate. Unless you are in a remote or rural area where first responders may take 30-45min to get on site. A .45acp or .357magnum can deal with most threats. A second gun or back up is smart. To take the same type pistol magazine from the main defense gun is a good idea. You could give the 2nd gun to your spouse or a trained adult during a lethal force event.
Keep the weapons clean and check them often. Use only factory made defense ammunition. No reloads or hand loaded rounds.
Take a few classes or training programs too if available near you. Honestly some courses-cadre are better than others. Go to a seminar or check a instructor out first. See if they are licensed and in good standing. If they claim they are a veteran or a former LE officer, see if that's true. Stolen Valor or fake veterans are a growing problem. I've seen gun instructors who were great & a few that had issues. The NRA can guide you. Some PDs & sheriff's offices offer crime prevention/community support classes too.
Learn your area's gun and lethal force laws-statues. I'd look into a pre paid legal service like CCWsafe.com or NRA/Second Call. Unless you have a defense law firm or a good lawyer on retainer, a pre paid plan can help you. A crime or shooting is not the time to decide what to do or who to call, .
I'd add that having a security or home alarm service is smart. To document a crook or felon with DV can assist you in any police investigation. Do not talk to the police or EMTs-firefighters. Keep your responses to the basics, explain that you fired or used your weapon in self defense & were in fear for your life. This cuts off the "you fired by accident" or "you were mad and shot at the guy/robber". The police and investigators are trained to make you evoke a response or to get you to admit incriminating statements.
They are not your buddy or pal.

As for your kids or family, I'd look into Massad Ayoob's gun safe kids book. It's from the 1980s/1990s but the training cues hold up. Ayoob is a sworn LE officer, legal use of expert, target shooter, and author. He's also a father who raised children around several weapons & ammunition.

 

[BLB68]

First, I'd consider a decent well made DA only pistol or 3"-4" barrel . . .

The gun should be the last line of defense. It shouldn't be anywhere near first on a list. Things like making your home less attractive to intruders, hardening your perimeter, knowing your neighbors, raising your and your family's situational awareness, eliminating hiding areas to be ambushed from, having some kind of alarm system (barking or electronic), having surveillance, having a solid bedroom or other 'safe room' door, keeping a charged phone near the bed (and making sure it's set up for 911 calls) . . . lots of details to take care of before even worrying about the firearm selection.

 

[SSN Vet]

family sleeps on second floor...

Arrangements provided to ensure anyone who breaks in will make a lot of noise include:
1. lock screen door (easy to break open, but loud)
2. dead bolts on exterior doors (someone is going to have to kick hard)
3. basement door has slide bolt on it (easy to breach, but again it makes noise)
4. baby gate on stairway landing (keeps dog out of cat food and makes noise)
5. creaky steps
6. wife is a very light sleeper.

The simple goal is that I gain enough time to:

1. slip out of bed
2. get my glasses on
3. tap gun vault combo and put a condition one .45 in my hand
4. grab the flash light out its holder on the night stand.

This drill takes ~ 5 seconds

5. walk 10 feet from BR door to top of stairs.

If I can make it to my "lay in wait spot" before an intruder does, I'm very confident that I can protect my wife and kids.

The #1 priority is to not shoot one of my own kids, who may be lurking around the house.

We have a dog, but he'll serve a home invader tea and crumpets before he barks.

 

[GEM]

Good point. Alarms can call the law. Also, ours sounds a very loud obnoxious horn. One would not want to stay in the house for more than a short time with it going off.

We can also trigger it from the hunker down room.

Another point - do you have good trigger discipline if you Do have to move around? I recall the alarms sounding over a broken plate from a late night expedition of the child getting a cold chicken leg. Have a communication plan and a 'safe' vs 'danger' word.

 

[RustyShackelford]

post #36 fake cops..,..

First re: post 36: my listing of a firearm is not meant to be the first choice or item a home owner/resident needs. I just listed that point as part of a longer list of security suggestions. I didn't intend to infer that buying a firearm or owning a weapon is the very first thing.
2nd: Fake cops or crooks using raid gear/fake badges is not uncommon.
To buy fake badges or gear-uniforms isn't hard. Some ethical or responsible vendors mandate department verification or restrict sales to military/sworn LE officers but many times that's based on local ordinances or state laws.

Several times I worked with patrol deputies and detectives from my local sheriff's office(about 1200 sworn deputies). Many times they'd say: POLICE or wear police items on their vests-gear. I asked a senior deputy why they didn't say deputy or sheriff's office and he said; most citizens do not respond or comply with other titles, they may not know what a marshal or constable or deputy is. He said most police academies & training courses went with the police title just to avoid the confusion or misunderstanding in high stress situations.
That said, I've seen a few cops go overboard too, once I made a court appearance in western PA. A middle aged constable came in armed & in his uniform, . He had silver metal LE badges on his vest(chest), one on his duty belt & another on a neck chain. I guess he had hassles or disputes in the his job where people questioned who he was, .

 

[Fiv3r]

While some people find having all the bedrooms on the second floor undesirable, I appreciate it.

I live in a two story home with my wife and daughter and dog. If there is an odd noise, I send the dog. He's rather smart in his old age and tends to perk and ear instead of rushing the sound

If there is a sound that doesn't wake me entirely from my sleep, it would have to come from the back door. The front door makes a hellova racket and has a motion sensing flood light when you get to the front porch.

The back door is of course locked. The back yard is fenced and locked and also has two motion lights. If there were a lot of suspicious noises, I'd make for the steps and post up at the top while looking in on my daughter's room. She's only 4, and sleeps like the dead. If she's in bed, then everyone due to be in my house is accounted for.

I'd have my wife call 911 and I'd quietly guard the stairway. All of my valuables are at the back of the house, really. Just electronics that they can help themselves to. If they try to make it upstairs, I'd act accordingly.

 

[RustyShackelford]

DAs, prosecutors ......

I'm not a lawyer or have a JD but I heard a few times that if a crook or robber goes up any floors or occupys any bedrooms-living areas on other floors of a structure, this could be considered a home invasion or robbery.
If it's in a garage or shed or back porch/first floor many crimes could be pled down to a residential burglary or a lesser offense.

From 1996-2000 I lived in a less than ideal area of Pittsburgh PA.
It was a multi level family home & I had a few room mates. My SOP for home security was to let noises-action in the lower floors come & go but after 1200am or so, if anyone broke in or moved up to my floor/living area, it was O-N.
I had my Beretta 96D .40 fully loaded & ready for any danger. At the time I used either Golden Saber 165gr JHP or Corbon 135gr JHP(warmer months).
During the period I recall only 2 minor events both on the exterior of the house(loud-aggressive people wander by). We had one house tenant who had a alcohol related dispute but he was evicted over it.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I'm not a lawyer or have a JD but I heard a few times that if a crook or robber goes up any floors or occupys any bedrooms-living areas on other floors of a structure, this could be considered a home invasion or robbery.
If it's in a garage or shed or back porch/first floor many crimes could be pled down to a residential burglary or a lesser offense.

What constitutes a violent crime is defined by whatever your jurisdictional laws say on the matter. So it's wise for all of us to get a handle on the basics for these laws wherever we reside, and honestly, wherever we intend to travel as well.

For example, in the South Carolina Code of Laws (16-1-60) "Violent crimes defined", burglary in the first and second degree are listed:

"burglary in the first degree (Section 16-11-311); burglary in the second degree (Section 16-11-312(B));"

Part of the definition of burglary in the first degree includes "the entering or remaining occurs in the nighttime".

Part of the definition of burglary in the second degree likewise includes "The entering or remaining occurs in the nighttime".


Nowhere in the definitions of either SC statute does it define a burglary as entering a specific region of a domicile.

An unoccupied building separate from the domicile, like a garage or some such, Code 16-11-10 ""Dwelling house" defined in case of burglary, arson and other criminal offenses" says:

With respect to the crimes of burglary and arson and to all criminal offenses which are constituted or aggravated by being committed in a dwelling house, any house, outhouse, apartment, building, erection, shed or box in which there sleeps a proprietor, tenant, watchman, clerk, laborer or person who lodges there with a view to the protection of property shall be deemed a dwelling house, and of such a dwelling house or of any other dwelling house all houses, outhouses, buildings, sheds and erections which are within two hundred yards of it and are appurtenant to it or to the same establishment of which it is an appurtenance shall be deemed parcels.

 

[rondog]

Dogs. Kids love dogs, and dogs love kids. Gitcha some.

 

[BLB68]

First re: post 36: my listing of a firearm is not meant to be the first choice or item a home owner/resident needs. I just listed that point as part of a longer list of security suggestions. I didn't intend to infer that buying a firearm or owning a weapon is the very first thing.

You rollin' your eyes at me? Huh?

I wasn't really trying to call you out there, sorry if it came off that way. More pointing that out for folks who may just wander into the thread and not quite get where you were coming from.

 

[SSN Vet]

There was a burglar/home invader shot dead in the city where I work and I followed the police logs and media reports with interest, as it sounded very fishy to me. I fully expected to hear that the homeowner was going to be charged, but they seemed to focus on two things...
1. the burglar came up to the second floor.
2. there was a child sleeping in a second floor bedroom.

No charges were filed.

 

[RustyShackelford]

why can't all crooks be idiots.....

These recent posts remind me of the events like in metro Detroit MI where the mom with a Hi Point carbine lit up a few hapless crooks. Then one of the MENSA members ran back(into the open, bright light of the driveway ).
He didn't get shot but I don't know what seemed to be rolling thru his feeble young mind, . Tombstone courage? Dumb luck?
If you haven't seen the security-CCTV footage, watch that break-in.
Mom wasn't charged either & she was praised the Detriot PD chief.

 

[Lord Teapot]

go right for the noise to eliminate the threat element asap, hopefully it's a false alarm, no sense checking on the kids if i take one in the back doing it.

 

[LiveLife]

We had an attempted home invasion about 15 years ago. When the police got here they asked if we had a Dog. My Wife HATES Dogs so we didn't. She had been scared so badly within a few months we had five.

We moved from a city where gang organized home invasion robberies were common with 5-7 intruders with posted spotters outside the house.

After we got robbed by neighbor's kid and his friend on probation, we moved and got 3 dogs. She carried G27 inside the house/yard and TCP went everywhere she went.

If noise was heard inside the house, 3 dogs would alert and bark while they responded and she would don a tactical vest with pistol, phone, flashlight, spare mags while we reached for shotgun/AR.

If threat made past the dogs, we would be fearing for our lives. Our 16 year old daughter is a competent shooter and while she doesn't sleep with a pistol, she would have one in her hands right quick if dogs didn't stop barking.

 

[old lady new shooter]

These recent posts remind me of the events like in metro Detroit MI where the mom with a Hi Point carbine lit up a few hapless crooks. Then one of the MENSA members ran back(into the open, bright light of the driveway ).
He didn't get shot but I don't know what seemed to be rolling thru his feeble young mind, . Tombstone courage? Dumb luck?
If you haven't seen the security-CCTV footage, watch that break-in.
Mom wasn't charged either & she was praised the Detriot PD chief.

Do you have a link please?

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

This looks like it:

http://www.ammoland.com/2014/02/hi-point-carbine-used-to-stop-detroit-home-invasion/#axzz3bFPjCu3f