Gun Snobs and Collectors Taken To Task, Alduro Style

[Okiecruffler]

Not too long back I posted a question about a problem I was having with my newly aquired Charles Daly 1911. The question was almost instantly answered by an "expert" who's answer was "you should have just bought a rock." It's crap like that which has increased over the years that has caused me to pretty much ignore what used to be a decent, friendly board of TFL refugees.
BTW, after a little mag work the CD has been 100% reliable and now rides my hip every day in a $40 leather belt slide. Is the blueing still like new? Not by half.

 

[medmo]

So, I hear what you are saying and that is exactly why I spend less time here. There have been so many times where a someone posts with enthusiasm their new purchase that they saved and scrounged to own only to be beaten over the head by somenone else regurgitating garbage they read 100x already, (making them an expert of course...). I don't think it's snobbery it's more like closed-minds. If you don't like what I like or own what I own then you must be a Gomer.

 

[only1asterisk]

Come on... we see it on here all the time. Someone will post asking for advice on a handgun purchase, and they'll state clearly that cost is a major factor and they need to keep it on the cheap side. It never fails that half a dozen people will chime in and say "You'd be better off saving for a couple of months and buying a Kimber instead of that cheap crap!"

If that someone’s current defensive needs are taken care of and the gun they are inquiring about is truly a POS, why would patience and delayed gratification buy unwise advice? It may not need to be a Kimber, H&K or other overpriced brand, but in a case where $100 makes a real difference, why not?

Well made, reliable used, surplus and new handguns suitable for defensive use can be had in the $175-300 range all day long, perfectly good, first quality pump shotguns can be found for $125 and up, every other month a local sporting goods store runs a sale on Yugo SKS for $99. Entirely suitable NIB hunting rifle choices abound in the $225-325 range.

Cheap doesn't mean crappy, crappy means crappy. Inferior materials, manufacturing techniques, quality control or design make guns crappy. Think your RG makes the perfect pocket gun? You will have to excuse me if I disagree and counsel others against it. If a worthwhile acquaintance of mine was in need of a gun, I'd loan them a c-note rather than see them buy a Jennings. If a true friend of mine had his house burn down and needed a shotgun for his family’s hotel room and a carry gun, he's welcome to what I have on hand or we will go out and find one of the above mentioned inexpensive guns of acceptable quality. There are guns out there that may work for a while, but are temporary guns waiting to let somebody down. They don't belong in the hands of anybody I give a rat's ass about.


David

 

[Kevinch]

I'm strictly speaking to those who pass off a weapon as a CARRY weapon when in fact it is not a carry weapon, it is a safe queen or show piece or collectors item, etc.

Well, I dunno.

Not sure how you can determine that by looking at an internet post or pic.

First, as any journey starts with the first step, a carry gun begins it carry life with the first carry. And, as it is wise not to advocate carrying a gun until you are well familiar with its function & reliability, it could be months after an acquisition is made before it takes on that role. It could be years before it starts to show wear. Also, the pictures that you look at of gun, holster, & belt could be snapped immediately after purchase & posted years later. And some of us (me included) are just very anal about keeping guns clean & looking as close to new as we have time to do. I don't think I'm snobbish about it though - I know I hope I'm not!

But - I do sympathize with you. I can't help but draw a parallel in this vein between the "gun" culture & the "biker" culture. My bikes are clean & they look good - but believe me, they are ridden. I'll be doing a 6200 mile trip from home, to the west coast, and then to Washington DC, then back home in May. All in about 19 days. The actual organized ride ends in DC, and on Sunday (the day before Memorial Day) there is a huge parade. The number of bikes is astounding - we leave the Pentagon 4 to 6 lanes wide & it takes over 4 hours to empty out.

To my point: at all these events, you'll see people arriving a day or so early, pulling $40k choppers out of a $7.5k enclosed trailer, pulled by a $45k F250 SuperDuty. Their leathers & tans are without flaw, & they'll cruise to a night spot or 2 where the action is. They'll do the parade on Sunday, and then back into the trailer go the bikes for the ride home. Maybe they'll put 100 miles on the bikes for the whole weekend. The bikes will probably be sold before they see 5k miles.

The old timers, the hard-line bikers, hate these guys. They have a lot of money and are all about the image, but know nothing about what it is really like to ride. In having a lot of money & spending it lavishly, prices for parts & accessories are skyrocketing beyond the reach of "normal folk". Once it isn't fashionable anymore to have a bike, the image class will move on & maybe things will drift back a little - but it will never be the same.

I've got nothing against someone who rides a $40k custom chopper - in fact, I have friends who do. (It just so happens that my friends also have "working bikes" too.) They love riding them - & I can't see any fault with that. In fact, I've ridden one of them - a $35k IronHorse - & have to admit it was a treat! I simply dismiss the "snobs" that look down their nose at anything less than a custom bike, but I don't think by riding one you can be identified as a poser.

Sad to say, I think it's the same with guns. A high priced custom handgun can be a life-saving tool to the LE professional, and at the other end of the spectrum an image & ego booster to the yuppie with pockets full of .com money. But between the 2 extremes are a bunch of us "normal folk", some who feel very fortunate to own a fine firearm & enjoy coming to a place like THR to talk about it. I see no fault with that.

 

[Kramer Krazy]

They have a lot of money and are all about the image, but know nothing about what it is really like to ride.

Those guys hate it when I park my old beat-up '85, that still has the original paint and has been all over the USA, next to their bikes. LOL

 

[Old Dog]

Kevinch, excellent comparison between the "new" bike culture and the gun culture.

I've got an acquaintance who picked up a $2400 Nighthawk just because it was the latest and greatest 1911 ... Six months later, I ask him how he likes it ... "Oh, I haven't had a chance to get it to the range yet." Right. I suspect most of us don't waste five minutes getting our latest acquisition (even if it's a 175 dollar Makarov or a 90-dollar mil-surp rifle) to the closest shooting facility to put rounds through it ...

6.) Do you offer carry advice about guns when you yourself do not carry?

I hate this, too ... and, it's been said already, and I share the irritation, it's so annoying when some folks regularly post about how crappy a certain firearm is, when it's clear they have no experience with it ... Or the keyboard commandos who post about all the military's problems with certain issue weapons -- I got so tired of hearing about all our problems with the M9 in Iraq ... of course, I was there only 18 months total between '02 - '04, so what did I know?

 

[bratch]

I got so tired of hearing about all our problems with the M9 in Iraq ... of course, I was there only 18 months total between '02 - '04, so what did I know?

Now now, don't let a little thing like facts distort the argument.

 

[roo_ster]

Well, HERE's a Carry Weapon & Gear

As of the date I snapped this image, the holster & belt had 1 year of carry & the SW1911 had 1 1/4 years of carry. Now both are at 2+ years.

$675 b/f taxes for the SW1911 (which is still box stock)
$140 for belt & holster

This system has been carried in the hottest & most humid days Dallas has to offer. I have sweated all over this rig many times while carrying it all day. I'm not talking a little sweat to be mopped up with a hankie. I'm talking big-boy, 200lb+ man-sweat. Take off your cover & undershirt...then wring out the sweat from your undershirt type sweat. Holster & belt did not take on moisture, however.

No Uncle Mikes nylon IWB holster will stand up to that and neither will just any Wal*Mart belt. They will self-destruct and leave your carry weapon looking worse for wear, too.

Despite all that mess, belt, holster, & SW1911 still look in good shape.

Maybe it is because I bought the best quality I could afford...and end up saving $$$ as I don't have to rotate out unsuitable CCWs and cheap holsters that almost work, but don't quite do the trick.

 

[orangeninja]

I'm talking big-boy, 200lb+ man-sweat.

Whoa.....that's a mental image. Careful there big boy.

 

[pierrebazukhov]

Alduro, thank you for this thread.

There have been a lot of good posts in this thread already but I'll throw in my $0.02 anyway.

One of my biggest frustrations with the gun hobby/habit I have is the whole snob thing. Here's my take. One of my other hobbies is beer/homebrewing. If I go to a board to talk homebrew, for the most part, I can discuss my preferences with others in a polite, civilized way. I say what I like, others tell me what they like. We all can accept that we have different tastes and levels of interest. Even if someone posts that they like Budweiser (most on the boards I go to don't like Bud and will tell you so) somone else will find something constructive to say: Bud is well-brewed, Bud is a style of beer that's difficult for homebrewers to perfect, Bud uses nice hops, some like Bud's yeast strain (I do), etc.

Gun boards are a different animal. If you post about a gun, there's always someone waiting to start throwing "POS" around. If you ask for advice on a $300 gun, you'll get a bunch of guys who will make you feel like s**t for not spending $700 on something better. Of course, it works the other way, too. You can find guys who will throw mud at others with $2500 guns. A lot of people like to use themselves as the standard against which to judge everyone else. I honestly can't understand why it has to be this way, and I hate it.

I'm not saying everyone is that way, other gun people are generally good, salt of the earth type people and I like them as a group. I just hate the narrow-mindedness and snoddy comments that come out sometimes.

 

[ArmedBear]

Look, I LIKE the fact that people will throw around "POS".

You do have to take it all with a grain of salt, but when I am asking about whether I would be getting a good deal for $300, or throwing away $300, I'm not asking to have my poor little feelings protected. I want my WALLET protected!

Geez.

Here's a clue: if someone doesn't have a good reason WHY a gun is a POS, then just ignore the post. And if you meet three or more people who own the gun, shoot it a lot, and still recommend it, just ignore the Internet, UNLESS there's a good tidbit like "it worked great for 5000 rounds, but then it fell apart." THAT is good to hear about.

Case in point for me: Mossberg O/U shotgun. Internet gun snobs say "POS." I know at least 3 shooters who have them and love them, and shoot them a lot without trouble. I would not hesitate to buy one, especially for hunting.

But either way, my emotional well-being seems intact.

 

[pierrebazukhov]

Thank you for proving my point.

It's not about my "feelings." If I ask for advice, tell me what you think and be honest. If you had problems with something, tell me what they were. POS is a copout, IMO. My problem is with people hiding behind POS.

 

[only1asterisk]

Copout, or just succinct? The S&W Sigma 380 was a POS, as is the Remington 710. They are some of the worst garbage ever put out by American gunmakers. What does it matter to me if you don't like my assessment? Go out and buy one!

David

 

[pierrebazukhov]

POS POS POS POS POS POS POS POS POS POS POS POS POS POS POS POS

 

[only1asterisk]

You don't need to have experience with something to tell that it is a POS. Take the Remington 710 for example. Its construction tells me everything I need to know. Crap, pure and simple. What really gets me is, you can buy a better NIB bolt action rifle for less money! You don't have to listen. I really don't care what you do.


David

 

[pierrebazukhov]

I hear what you're saying, I really do.

I was talking about my pet peeves, which aren't an issue for most. I can agree to disagree...

As far as the Sigma .380 and the Remington 710, I agree. I have a friend with a 710 that really likes it- different strokes, I guess.

Randy

 

[esheato]

I guess I'll be the ass in this thread.

I spend a ton of money on guns. I buy nice things. I like "custom" and I hold my dealers and manufacturers to a high standard.

Call me snobbish if you like, but I will spend $200 on a custom holster...or $3,000 on a rifle.

I like having unique items...I like having something that is handcrafted.

I also like having something that everyone else doesn't have. If I see one more tricked out Remington I'm going to puke. I also thoroughly enjoy it when someone comes up to me and remarks on my hunting rifle and says, "Remington 700 huh?" My answer, with a huge smile on my face, "No, it's an HS Precision" and proceed to let them handle and shoot it.

I might be the snob you dislike, but I also mind my own business. I don't impose and I don't run my mouth...I just want to shoot.

On the other hand, I understand money constraints and different tastes. I started with Ruger and Mossberg but I like to think of myself moving up with every new purchase.

Ruger
Mossberg
Savage
Ruger x2
Sig
Browning x3
Winchester
Colt
S&W
Cooper
Winchester
HS Precision
Ed Brown

I've been there and I choose to go up.

Ed

 

[orangeninja]

I guess I'll be the ass in this thread.

You said it, not me...... Kidding. Seriously. Having nice things and one of a kind things is awsome. I love to fondle other peoples guns at the shops and range, it's when they start snickering and scoffing at other people's guns that it gets a bit old....but hey, I can even deal with that, but when they start showing off something like a nickle plated Colt 1911 that is FLAWLESS and talk about it being their daily carry piece......that's when you've got to put on the waders.

Escpecially when it gives unrealistic expectations to new shooters and gun owners as to what is an acceptable carry piece.

 

[pierrebazukhov]

Esheato, I don't think you're being an ass at all. Like Alduro said, it's cool to have $$$$ stuff, it's the snickering, etc. that makes a person an ass.

 

[esheato]

Well I'm glad I'm not the ass (except in alduros mind). Lol.

Besides...the only thing that matters at the end of the day is what's on the paper.

Ed

 

[silicon wolverine]

I look at it this way. You can have a 3000$ Kimber or my 35$ raven .25. Niether one means jack if you cant hit anyhting. At its basest form guns are a projection of force. What a gun is, is asthetics. 9mm .45 whatever. Somw may be more reliable than others, ill give you that. But my .25 is just as lethal at 15 feet as your .45 is. I like expensive guns. I had a 5000$ .416 dakota when i was younger. But i realized that a gun i shoot 5 or 10 times a year isnt all that great. Id rather have a low buck gun i can afford to shoot than a high-end gun that loses value when you pull the trigger. I learned that haveing guns is about enjoying them. However you do that whether it be burning rounds like i do, or staring at them on a shelf thats your gig. But me i think a gun was born to shoot. Just like a Boss mustang was born to run. Not sit on a shelf and look pretty.

SW

 

[TX1911fan]

I carry this gun everyday. That's a Don Hume OWB holster that I use most of the time, but I also have a Galco tuckable IWB. I agree that good leather makes a difference, but can't bring myself to spend more than $60 for it.

 

[erh]

alduro - No, I havn't been out load, Yes I have a collection, Yes I Do know how to shoot, & yes I carry every single day, & Last but not least; Yah, to most of all that ^^ that you said; I think..! Maybe, kinda sorta... Oh, and I really like good "Gun Leather!"

Eric Howland

 

[orangeninja]

Eric, I read your post, reread your post and it still doesn't make sense. What?

 

[Erich]

I know I'm coming into the discussion really late, but I just don't see people being gun snobs or collectors. Perhaps there are such people, but I don't read their comments.

On the other hand, since pics of carry guns and knives were invited, I wanted to play (I don't take pics of my carry leather - it ain't pretty ). I carry all of these at different times for different reasons: