Gun Snobs and Collectors Taken To Task, Alduro Style

[lycanthrope]

Well, this one gets carried all the time and has served well for about 5 years. And although it looks "pimpin" and it IS a Kimber. I bought the aluminum frame and stainless model for comfort, durability and the fact that I sweat on it quite regularly......

I love my Steyr M40 too, but I just shoot the 1911 better.

 

[rfurtkamp]

I own eight Sigs now. They're pristine, wonderful guns- all but one. The one I shoot the most happens to be the one I've carried for years and you can tell ;0

It comes with me on average of 12 hours a day. All the sharp edges have been dehorned with *use*, not a smith's file.



I'm one of the guys who rusts stainless.

This particular gun has seen at least 80k rounds now. I didn't count for the first few years of its life.

I have yet to have a FTE or problem, but it is on the second set of night sights. ;0

 

[MountainPeak]

Thank God I don't "collect". I have "accumulated" 68 over many years. I'm not a snob, but I am pretty smug about it!!!!

 

[Dobe]

Same feeling as the above poster

I will be getting my CCW permit soon. I have waited for years. I will be carrying a new P7M8 in a DelFatti holster. To me, both are justified. Its my money. You can carry what you wish. I will not berate you for it.

Dobe

 

[JohnKSa]

This pistol's seen a bit of carry wear although the pics make it look better than it is.

Nothin' collectable about it...

 

[NineseveN]

Heh, my new carry is, *gasp* a $700 model 1911 4" barreled abomination neener: to all you 5" purists out there) that won't even see leather but half the year...Kydex is faster.

My old carry was an HK USP .45 Compact in Stainless that looks the same as the day I bought it (minus the new night sights and grip tape anyway).

I don't much care what anyone does with their money or their life, so long as they don't get on the high horse and tell everyone about it as if they alone serve as the baseline on what is right and prudent and sensible.

I don't collect guns, I sell the ones I like but don't carry or have in a HD role in the home. At some point, I can see all of my handguns being 1911's and a couple of revolvers, though I doubt any of the 1911's will be in the Valtro flavor, Springfield Armory's lifetime warranty trumps most anything I have come across (aside from Smith and Wesson's lifetime warranty...every company should handle warranty and service work like those two).

The only reason I might see a need for a $3,000.00 custom job is if I competed seriously and regularly...I don't and I might never. For now, my 1911 abomination will just have to do.

 

[JERRY]

good post by the orginal author.


though an Aston Martin is nice, it worthless in the garage on a rainy day compared to a 1987 honda civic.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Alduro said: The guys who crack me up are the ones who juggle a Colt revolver with a 1911 of some type . . .

I guess I'd be one who entertains you, then. You can find me with either one of two customized Colt Commanders, or the alloy framed variation of the Detective Special. When I'm healthy and can tolerate the weight of the Commander (yes, both are alloy), I'll do it. On days when the illness gets the better of me and I can't tolerate it, I arm myself with the revolver.

I guess I'm a snob. But I didn't begin this way. I can remember not 6 years ago telling a good friend who spent $2k on a pistol, "I just can't see myself paying more than $1k on a pistol. I guess I just can't appreciate the difference."

And I was right; at the time I couldn't.

I THOUGHT I carried regularly. But I carried on personal time, not at work, and I later found those 40+ hours make a difference. Once I made arming myself a 12-16 hour daily event, and taking serious range courses that involved hundreds of draws and thousands of rounds, I began to notice things. Eliminating sharp edges that destroy clothing, good sights, a slim frame, good leather. . . I'm a firm believer that until equipment gets put to that kind of test, the difference between cheap and expensive doesn't seem justified. I know . . . I used to say it wasn't.

Since then, I've had Jim Garthwaite convert and customize a Commander into a 9x23/38 Super/9mm Convertible and make it suitable for extended comfortable carry. That gun has over $2k into it. Last summer I spent a week with Jim studying under him, learning how to build a "carry, working, call it what you will" custom 1911 from unfinished parts. That one is a nearly identical Commander in .45 ACP. Between lodging, parts, and the fee to Jim, that one has $2.5 - $3k into it. I can tell them apart from picking them up in the dark from use, but they appear identical upon a visual glance.

I have no safe queens. Neither of those Commanders has anything on it or done to it without the sole purpose of making it more reliable or suitable for carry. I go through no less than 5k a year in ammo even when my health has been at its worst. These custom guns are the ones I use and carry. Its precisely why I spent that much on them.

Same for leather. Nylon clip on and Fobus are OK for some I guess. Not me. That stuff simply gets destroyed after a few hours of rentention training. And it doesn't provide the stability I demand. $100 on a holster? Sounds average to me, not expensive. Then again - I just spent $50 of my own money on a Rings Blue gun for retention training. Most folks look at that and think I just wasted my money on an overpriced toy.

Knives . . . I've been carrying a $150 Laci Szabo fixed blade handmade by Fred Perrin for 5 years now, every day, all day. I've had to take a wire brush to scrub the corrosion off it after a week of rain. So much for collections.

Alduro said: When used this weapon will be taken by the police and tagged, sometimes they engrave a case number right onto the weapon, how does that sit with your $3,000 gun?

As farscott mentioned, if my carry gear gets locked in an evidence locker for a year or two and comes back dinged and corroded to hell with an evidence # stamped on it . . . OK. It should still work with yet one more number on it, and I can get it the corrosion beadblasted off and have it refinished. Or if not, I'll just chalk it up to a sunk cost and frame it in remembrance. That would be my first "safe queen". If I were a free man during the investigation I'd have been carrying a replacement just like it anyway.

I'm not impressed by those who flaunt themselves as miserly in such matters as safety or self defense and consider it a virtue. I don't buy the cheapest tires and brakes for my car for the same reason. When I need them in bad weather, I NEED them, and the difference in a couple hundred dollars becomes apparent.

My own floor for a working semi-auto is in the range of a Kel-Tec P11. And that's basement bottom for me. I like to stick with my Commanders, the Cobra, or a Kimber. I used to find a 229 acceptable until the DA/SA switch screwed with my 1911 SA pull, and that swapping around actually affects me.

If I get asked for my opinion, I'll be one of the guys suggesting one should save up a hundred or so more a something better than basement bottom. And I don't feel the least bit snobbish about it. I don't consider products such as tires, brakes, or defensive guns areas I'm willing to buy the cheapest and barely adequate. My life is worth the little bit extra, so I make the sacrifices necessary to afford it.

Pictures . . . I can't afford a digital. My money is in the guns. Let's see what I can come up with, though . . .

 

[orangeninja]

I have no safe queens.

Then you need to reread my post on what a gun snob is and not grab a random sentence out of context compadre'.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Well . . . The Commander here on Jim's site is mine . . or as we joke, it’s his and he lets me borrow it. An artist always owns his work.

The other one looks just like it.

I carry the Commanders in a now discontinued Milt Sparks Road Runner that isn’t pretty anymore, and I don’t care. I’ll rack the slide on the reinforced mouth.

A picture of off side carry when using the Cobra. It highlights the Szabo fixed blade, Sparks light pouch, and sharkskin leather belt.

 

[BullfrogKen]

alduro said: Then you need to reread my post on what a gun snob is and not grab a random sentence out of context compadre'.

Maybe . . . but I'm pretty sure I have what it takes to be a snob. I do consider certain guns beneath my money. And Fobus, or Uncle Mike's nylon for carry gear. I own a Fobus piece, but its strictly for simunitions and red gun training. I won't use that stuff for carry.

I'm a snob that way, I am. There's a certain quality level I consider a waste of my money.

The Brownell's catalog has a quote by John Ruskin on the inside cover:

It's unwise to pay too much . . . but its worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you loose a little money . . . that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes loose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.

The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot.

I can't disagree.

 

[orangeninja]

Maybe . . . but I'm pretty sure I have what it takes to be a snob.

Your call I suppose. But being that you pull the 14th hour stretch routinely you have also come to discover that there are "fixes".....not everything is universal for everyone. I for one like Uncle Mikes pocket holsters and their inexpensive IWB.....do I have better? You bet....but Uncle Mikes does work, I've worn my IWB while on assignment comfortably for over 15 hours....in addition to making that low slung pants look work I also wear a quality gun belt with suspenders under a semi-buttoned overshirt. The suspenders hook on the belt and it makes for a pretty solid get up without looking like a cop.

Anyhow.........

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. I don't know if I'm a "gun snob" or a "collector" or just what; I am a shooter and do tote a concealed handgun daily as I did before retiring after 25 continuous years as a full-time peace officer.

I shoot all of the guns I own, but don't necessarily carry all.

Reasons are varied.


Over the years I've run across some firearms that I simply like to own. Whether it is due to their lines, looks, or just their putting me in mind of a different time is hard to say; I bought this one simply to own. I shoot it a little but have never carried it and probably never will.


I bought this Model 042 several years ago. It served as a backup to my duty Hi Power for several years and I carried it after retirement via my CHL.


This was pretty much my usual armament during the last several years of my career. The Hi Power was refinished after I retired.


On the other hand, I did this Caspian long slide .45 myself. I had no intentions of carrying it and still don't. It normally just goes to the range, but has been used to cleanly and legally put a whitetail ( or two or three) into the freezer. It may not be a "tool" in the eyes of others and maybe not to me, but it danged sure is an "implement" in having fun.


This Springfield Armory Lightweight 5" was lightly altered in the 90's for me before I got it. It's rather plain by some standards, but saw some use as a concealed defensive pistol before I retired and still gets carried now and again.


My orbits are now pretty tame with generally nothing wilder than a duck waddling up for something to eat and this SP101 and S&W 642 are my carry guns when carrying two. The 642 replaced the 042 as summers are hotter than you know what here in Texas. I carry the 642 24/7 as an "always" gun.

I pretty much carry what I like. Often it's not top end/highest dollar. I've been told that I'm foolish for not carrying the very best I have. On the other hand, some folks speak to not wasting money on higher end guns when something more economical will suffice just as well. I can see points and rebuttals to both points of view.

In the end I think I'll just carry what pleases me. I'll be happy with the "non-tool" firearms that live in the safe and visit the range now and again, but I'll also appreciate those that hardly ever get to even see the inside of a safe.
For me, this is what works and what makes me happy. (I place "happy" and "fun" way high on my list of things to be and have on a daily basis.) I've pretty much learned that the old song is true when it says, "You can't please everyone so you have to please yourself."

Best.

 

[MillCreek]

Erich, I can understand carrying around the Kahr, the HP, the Glock, etc., but under what scenario do you carry around a New Mexico appellate brief? Because I have lots of Washington appellate briefs/opinions I can carry around, and I wonder if I am missing something by failing to do so!

 

[Erich]

Hi counselor,

Actually, that was a record. We're too poor to bind our briefs hereabouts.

I needed something to contrast the gun and the table, and that was what I'd been reading through before I took a play-with-the-camera break . . .

 

[riverdog]

Nothing wrong with quality, regardless of whether it's collectible or lives in a holster, but I don't have any guns that I consider to be collectibles. While most of my handguns are in the safe, they've all been to the range, including a pristine 1957 vintage Colt 1911A1 and a LNIB nickel S&W Mod 27 -- I just couldn't resist. One of my revolvers is a S&W Mod 19 which left most of its blueing in a LEO's holster -- very smooth action, $225 OTD. In fact most of my S&W revolvers were used. One is a Mod 57 that was used for hunting and shows significant holster wear on the muzzle and cylinder -- nice gun, shoots great. .41 Mag is a great caliber BTW.

Even those handguns I consider pristine aren't that impressive to look at. No scroll work, nothing special -- but they are all reliable and they all shoot straight for me or I turn them in so that someone else can have the opportunity to make them shoot straight. I like 1911's and have way too many, but when I feel the need to grab one it's always the same pistol, a worked over Colt 1991A1 that gave me fits until I rebuilt the 8 round magazines with 7 round springs and followers -- now it runs. The WilsonCombat and Les Baer guns are very nice, but that Colt has more rounds through it and I like the way it feels.

The only semi out of the safe right now though is the G19 I took to the range to test fire and never put into the safe. It lives up to the G19 reputation and has never faulted regardless of the ammo I fed it. All those nice .45 ACP 1911's and I have a Glock 9MM out of the safe -- nice gun. Then there's that S&W 686 that went to S&W for a recall mod and never went into the safe. Nothing collectible there, just a good shooter.

 

[Sgt Stevo]

For my kid

I dont know firearms are even going to be legal, when My little girl is old enough to own them.

So I try to buy stuff to set her up. I also am not sure what the world will be like.

So I got her a browning high power, AK trainer, a couple sks type guns, an Ar, "cal'legal', a glock and a shotgun. Also A bolt 22 to start her out in a couple of years. she is three.

This might seem nutty to some. But I have been in many places were 10 year olds carry AKs.

I wish my old man had the same thinking. I could have bunch of pre-ban stuff.

 

[buzz_knox]

I'm neither a snob nor a collector. I just have a large reference "library" available should someone say "I really need to try one like that."

 

[torpid]

Gun Snob:

1. One who tends to patronize, rebuff, or ignore people regarded as owning inferior firearms and imitate, admire, or seek association with people regarded as owning superior firearms.

2. One who affects an offensive air of self-satisfied superiority in matters of a firearm's selling price or perceived elite status.



Seriously though, it all comes down to what you can do with the gun, and how reliable it is. The rest is gravy.

I like this thread.

.

 

[moredes]

who am I?

I guess the topic brought me out of the woodwork on this one. I don't usually take a stand about what price level makes a gun "good" or "carryable", etc., but this topic seemed to scream 'class war'. I dunno if I'm a snob, a collector, or a shooter. As somebody else remarked, there's guns beneath my money that I just won't buy. Been there, done that. I'm the cheapest guy I know. Sometimes it's just too damn embarrassing to admit in public the lengths I'll go to in order to save a dollar, and 20 of 'em makes $20-- 'real money'--I see $20 on the hoof as a box of .308 178AMAX bullets, or a 1000 pistol primers. But at some point, being cheap isn't a virtue.

Alduro said,

Sorry it’s coming across like that. What I meant to get across, and thought I’ve said, is that comparing a collectors gun to a shooters gun doesn’t make sense. In other words, you don’t whip out your safe queen and pass it off as a carry piece right?.....Then I come here, read another thread complaining about people spending less than $400.00 on guns and I said to myself “self, we’ve go to rant”......I’m not knocking owning nice guns…….I’m knocking those of us who take our photo bait/safe queens/BBQ guns and act like they are our “carry” pieces or workhorse when in fact they are not.

Esheato said

On the other hand, I understand money constraints and different tastes. I started with Ruger and Mossberg but I like to think of myself moving up with every new purchase.

I disagree with the first quote and that bold italicized highlight is me all over. I've not posted photos of my guns in several years, and my stock has changed anyway... but who's to say that I'm a "poser" because some $1500+ gun looks like something someone else would keep as a safe queen? I've been moving up with each purchase, in a quest for a real nice custom piece. 'Custom' because there's just some things I want in a shooter that I can't get buying off the rack-- any rack.

Some folks seem not to like it that there's guys out there complaining about the way other folks spend their money. 'Esheato' hit it right on the head--I started out with a cheap used Beretta .22; I was tempted to buy a Llama or Star 1911-clone once, but I made a mistake with a knockoff brand stereo a long time ago, and that burn taught me a big lesson--if a large percentage of folks are willing to tell the world something ain't right, then maybe they got a reason for their discontent, and I'm not one to spend my money tryin' to disprove them. I understand 'low budget'; and there's nothing wrong with it, so long as the prospective buyer realizes the possible omissions in quality and value. I buy 'used' all the time. It's the only way I can afford this hobby--but each purchase is a step up, in quality, standards, and unfortunately, price.

Some folks just are too thin-skinned to understand that this is the internet. Half of the 'words of wisdom' posted at any site are some ninja's "experiences" at the keyboard. None of it means a damn thing. It bothers some folks that others will get out there and cut the legs out from under their purchase. "Ah, you're an @ss for payin' that..." It's either too little, or too much. Somebody ain't gonna agree, and s/he'll get some other sheep to chime in with them. You're getting the information/advice/feedback for free--AND it's mostly anonymous--whaddya expect??

There's a ton of manufacturers I won't touch; I don't have to, anymore. If someone asks for open-ended advice like,"what would you recommend for X dollars?", if the number is too low, I'm gonna speak my mind, on the premise that their query is looking for my best advice. You want my second best advice? Okay, it'd be,"if you gotta have it now, and you're adamant about your limit, you'll have to settle for YY but I wouldn't do that because they're junk." That probably makes me a snob; but I don't have to answer to anyone, just the keyboard in the morning--and that was my best advice. If folks are afraid they're gonna get an answer they won't like, they either shouldn't ask the question, or be ready for a possible hailstorm of poorly-worded criticisms and (maybe [seemingly] malicious) replies.

One last thing about safe queen 'posers', and their 'high-line' "toys".... with each purchase, my carry gun has changed, and gotten more costly each time. I've gone from a Walther PPK/S to a customized BHP, to a no-name gunsmith Caspian 45acp Commander to a Jim Hoag Commander, and I finally settled on a gun that was absolutely undoubtably costly enough that most folks would flame me as a poser for claiming I carry it. Makes no difference to me; but I might be able to explain the "logic" of those of us who carry "poser" weapons--or at least, my logic. I carry it because I love to shoot it because it's such a nice piece of work. It's so nice, I don't wanna leave it in the safe when it's time for a shooting session. Consequently, it's the gun I shoot best, because I shoot it the most. Lose it as evidence? Well, I'd sure be cryin', but if I'm alive after using it, then that tool did its' job and the good news is I'm still around to regret losing it. And if I ain't still around after using it, then carrying it was the rightest thing I ever did with it.

 

[1911Tuner]

Crackin' Up

Quote:

>The guys who crack me up are the ones who juggle a Colt revolver with a 1911 of some type<
******************

I guess I'd fit into that category, then. Although it's no secret that I'm a
hard-core 1911 man...I've been known to pack my all-time favorite carry revolver, the Smith 3-inch round butt M-13 or even a Model 58 M&P on occasion. I also like the Smith 581/681 wheelguns a lot, though I rarely carry one. Just nothin' quite like a well slicked-up K-frame.

 

[bouis]

Regarding the first post in this thread, yeah, it's kind of silly when guys claim to carry expensive, pristine custom pieces that you just know sit in a safe and rarely see the light of day.

But I disagree about putting down on collectors in general. Let's face it... you really only need two guns for defense -- one you can carry and one that sits by your bed at night. For me that's a $200 Kel-Tec .380 and a 12 gauge. Everything else is just for fun -- for me variety is fun and various peices in your collection don't have to be expensive if you're careful picking them out. You can have a lot of fun for not a lot of money these days. For example, my latest $329 acquisition (virgin S&W K-38 Masterpiece):

 

[roo_ster]

bouis:

Hubba, hubba, is that a purty revolver!

 

[Sport45]

I don't own a Colt revolver, but when I tried to juggle my Dan Wesson and 1991a1 I wound up dropping them both. Carpet saves the day!

Seriously, I don't have any guns I don't shoot but many I don't carry. I only have holsters for the Sig 226 and S&W 36. The 36 is pristine and I don't carry it often. My S&W 19-5 is like-new and I probably only get it out once every 3 years or so. The DW, Colt, Sig, and Redhawk are my range workhorses. I don't mind laying them directly on the bench, etc.

 

[hecate]

I happily admit to having safe queens. I love Browning Hi-Powers, so when I see a pristine Mark I that's only had one magazine fired through it in it's life, or a mint-condition, box-stock T-series made in 1969, I just have to add it to my collection.

Nebraska just passed concealed carry, and it doesn't go into effect until next year, so the closest I can come to a carry gun is my T-series that's had work done at Cylinder & Slide. It goes in the headboard holster at night, outside with me when the dogs go off at 2:00 a.m., saved the day when the other guns I took to Front Sight couldn't handle the workload, and carries me through IPSC and IDPA matches.

It's so reliable that as soon as I get my CCW, it will be my carry gun. I will only trust my life to something that I know will go bang every single time.

The bluing is worn, and nobody will ever mistake it for a showpiece, but I prefer to consider it's blemishes to be "character."