Gun Snobs and Collectors Taken To Task, Alduro Style

[XavierBreath]

S&W Model 38

So let's see some REAL carry pieces on this thread......Pics encouraged

See this thread for more of the same.............

And one more..........

 

[Kramer Krazy]

Points well taken........You address the two ends of the spectrum, though: carry and safe-queens. What about all those guns that are owned simply for just shooting holes in paper? I generally carry an old, beat up, and worn Officer's model manufactured 1981. It is usually at the range with me, if not, I have one of my other 1911 guns, but.....I sure do enjoy all my other guns, too, so some of them go with me each time. I mean, I have the guns, so why not shoot them? I will probably never carry my Vaquero or plan on using it for home defense, but it sure is fun to shoot.

I agree with you, also, about shooting/carrying a variety and how it can hinder your abilities with your carry weapon. I used to carry 4-5 different guns of different styles, but have now dropped it to two that are carried the same way and have similar controls. I've often thought about not being used to the format I'm carrying, and having to fumble with the safety (or lack of - Glock).

Good read there, Alduro!

 

[orangeninja]

it's simply something I enjoy doing. I don't know if you're into photography Alduro, but if so why not take a few pictures of your working gun(s), holster(s) & knife (knives) & post here?

I don’t have a digital camera and really am not much of a photographer. Just think, pair of Sig 229, black stainless in .40 and pair of Glock 19’s, stock and you’ll get the idea. I also have a FN HP, but it is not yet a carry piece...

I believe a fella can have both. Why does it have to be either one or the other? Which is how it's coming across to me.

Sorry it’s coming across like that. What I meant to get across, and thought I’ve said, is that comparing a collectors gun to a shooters gun doesn’t make sense. In other words, you don’t whip out your safe queen and pass it off as a carry piece right?

As for what got this thread started was watching a young woman buying a Firestorm 9mm for home defense while the “gun guys” watched, rolled their eyes, etc. I was pretty hot but didn’t say anything since she did not notice and left with her purchase under arm. Meanwhile these show boaters LOVE to brag about what they “carry”……..though I’ve never seen them. Then I come here, read another thread complaining about people spending less than $400.00 on guns and I said to myself “self, we’ve go to rant”.

I’m not knocking owning nice guns…….I’m knocking those of us who take our photo bait/safe queens/BBQ guns and act like they are our “carry” pieces or workhorse when in fact they are not.

 

[poppy]

Well Alduro, I do understand where you are coming from, and I do agree with much of what you have said, but.....

I do agree with your criticism of the poster who thinks THR should only be for people who like $400+ guns. I always thought the word "High" was about standards and attitude, not price. The funny thing about that poster, was that they went on to say that they had Maks and other inexpensive guns.

I was attracted to your thread because of the title "Gun Snobs and Collectors" and thought maybe those were different catajories, but alas, it turns out that your rant was about collectors who are gun snobs.

I am a collector, but certainly not a snob. Why? Because my collection is mostly of guns that cost less than $400. Actually I am more of a collector/shooter since I really don't have very many safe queens. Your rant is obviously not about gun nuts like me, but I just needed to point out that there are different types of collectors.

The thing that I don't agree with is the assumption that everyone on THR is a CCW person. There are numerous threads where someone asks advice on a range/HD handgun, and numberous posters reply with what that person should "carry." We don't all carry, and we don't all put thousands of rounds through our guns.

I would rather buy that Walther P1 for $259 than spend that much at the range. Just one example of my collector style.

 

[bratch]

My jacket weather working collection. If you look close enough you can see the lettering on the Kimber has almost been worn off.

 

[MCgunner]

As for holsters, same concept, there is a point of diminishing returns......

My Rosen IWB was $140, the gun that goes in it was $260. But, it's a quality chunk of leather than I can wear all day long and never worry about retention, comfort, or quickness of draw. I happen to believe in quality leather. I hope I'm not a leather snob, but I cannot stand those cheapo clip type IWBs that fold up with you withdraw the gun and shift around and let the hard parts of the gun print through to my skin. I want good leather and a gun that works.

Reason I actually bought the Rosen at the time was it was about the only tuckable, a "Workman" model. There has since become available a lot of cheaper tuckables and I might have found something at lower costs if I'd waited a few years....:banghead: But, it is a work of art in leather and shows little wear after 9 years of use.

 

[Smurfslayer]

Ruh Roh...

When someone asks, “what is the ideal concealed/duty/plinker/etc.” there will inevitably be someone who points out their Kimber, their high end 1911 or their Anaconda or what have you.

Now you've done it...

Sometimes we’ve got to stop pretending and get back to the basics of why we own a gun in the first place and I doubt it was to model for our camera or impress our friends.

Alduro, I've got just one question for you, 'mano...


Are you the only one in this forum QUALIFIED to ...
Never mind


A thoughtful rant, worthy of discussion. + whatever the count is now...

 

[HCfan]

While I agree with your observations on having a working firearm vs. a show piece, I must disagree with your assumption that one cannot be proficient on different weapons systems.

I carry, depending on dress, weather, or situation, different weapon systems. I have practiced with all and can change from one to the other in the same shooting session and still hit the same as with the different firearm used earlier. This includes but is not limited to autos and revolvers.

The only "odd ball" weapons system that many say they have a hard time switching to from, lets say, a 1911 platform is the Glock. Again, I have no trouble switching from one to the other and hitting where aimed.

The reason that I've decided to train in this manner is due to if for some reason I am in a disarmed zone (for civilians but not for LEO's) and something happens, the LEO being put out of play, I can pick up his/her issued weapon and know enough of it's operation/feel to protect myself as well as any others.

Granted, the possibility of this happening are small to null but one never knows what may happen during the course of life.

I couldn't agree with you more on the subject of sticking one's nose up at someone else's choice of weapons. Many factors, finances usually being the biggest, dictates what they get. Saying that one should "just save up" for something better isn't always an option and who is another to tell someone that they shouldn't have a right to self defense until they can afford a high end or expensive firearm?

Good post IMHO for great conversation.

 

[Checkman]

Alduro

Sorry it’s coming across like that. What I meant to get across, and thought I’ve said, is that comparing a collectors gun to a shooters gun doesn’t make sense. In other words, you don’t whip out your safe queen and pass it off as a carry piece right?

Got it. Thanks for the clarification. Now I understand what you were saying and I agree with you +1. Thanks.

 

[Guns_and_Labs]

The only "odd ball" weapons system that many say they have a hard time switching to from, lets say, a 1911 platform is the Glock. Again, I have no trouble switching from one to the other and hitting where aimed.

Actually, I find very few issues swapping back and forth between a Glock and a 1911. It's the Sig's DA/SA transition that constantly has me baffled.

 

[Whirlwind06]

The reason that I've decided to train in this manner is due to if for some reason I am in a disarmed zone (for civilians but not for LEO's) and something happens, the LEO being put out of play, I can pick up his/her issued weapon and know enough of it's operation/feel to protect myself as well as any others.

As my CCW instructor (A LEO) said. "You are not selected, you are elected." Never know what gun you will have to shoot.

Actually, I find very few issues swapping back and forth between a Glock and a 1911. It's the Sig's DA/SA transition that constantly has me baffled.

I agree. Either DA or SA not one long pull then a bunch of short pulls.

 

[waterhouse]

I carry an HK p7 almost every day. Although I got it for less (much less) I could probably sell it for about $900. If the cops ever take it from me after I use it to defend myself or someone else, I will consider it 900 well spent dollars.

And while that P7 is sitting in the police evidence room, I'll take out its twin brother and carry it around.

I sometimes alternate between carrying the p7 and carrying a 1911. That 1911 happens to be a Kimber. I have no trouble switching between the two.

Most of my leather cost about $100. I don't use it because it costs $100. I use it because after trying several makes and models the most comfortable ones happened to cost about $100. Also, even though I wear it nearly every day, my leather doesn't show much sign of use. I just took off my holster to look at it an I see no creases or sweat stains. As for the guns, other than some wear on the edges, they are in pretty good shape as well. And my hideaway knife gets used several times a day, but I doubt you could tell it from new in a picture.

I guess what I am saying is that some of us do carry high dollar guns in high dollar holsters, and when you see a picture that is exactly what they are . . .high dollar guns that get carried.

I do see you point about lower cost guns. I'll never look down on anyone for their choice of firearm, and I think it is silly when people do. If P7s cost $100 I'd still carry them.

I choose to carry the guns that I shoot best that I can easily conceal in holsters that are the most comfortable for me. I sometimes even take pictures of my expensive guns. If that makes me a gun snob, so be it.

 

[orangeninja]

I'm not knocking carry pieces that are expensive or even carry holsters and knives that are expensive.......far from it, I say, get the best you can afford and get 2 of them. That being said, I'm strictly speaking to those who pass off a weapon as a CARRY weapon when in fact it is not a carry weapon, it is a safe queen or show piece or collectors item, etc.

I hope that's more clear.



As for me being the only one qualified to...........sometimes I wonder.

 

[Guns_and_Labs]

from it, I say, get the best you can afford and get 2 of them.

or three. One to carry, one to keep in the safe as backup, and one buried in the yard that the ex-wife doesn't know about... whoops, wrong thread.

 

[White Horseradish]

That being said, I'm strictly speaking to those who pass off a weapon as a CARRY weapon when in fact it is not a carry weapon, it is a safe queen or show piece or collectors item, etc.

Dang. And here I was going to talk about my Nagant revolver...

I'll post some pix of my tools when I get home.

 

[JohnBT]

"JohnBT.........as for snobby skeet shooters........well........I love to shoot skeet, but it's like golf, a sport and nothing more. I "ain't got no time" for sports fans encroaching on self defense topics with yacht club attitudes any more than I'd listen to Tiger Woods on self defense."

I aplogize for stepping into your rant with a little attempted humor. I don't shoot skeet BTW.

John

 

[orangeninja]

I aplogize for stepping into your rant with a little attempted humor. I don't shoot skeet BTW

no appology needed.......I'm done walking around waving my hands in the air.......for now.

 

[litework]

To be sure I am not a big fan of juggling platforms, if you carry autos, stick with autos, if you carry revolvers stick with those. If you carry Sig, stick with Sig or Glock with Glock. Simply put, most of us do not put in the time to adequately learn our weapons to carry more than one platform at a time. I carry Sig at work, I carry Glock off duty. I practice every 2 weeks at the range on live fire and I find that keeping up with these two platforms can be difficult to do so with any precision. Fortunately they are very similar, draw, aim, fire. The guys who crack me up are the ones who juggle a Colt revolver with a 1911 of some type, with some kind of hot rodded Glock and who knows what else. They’re carrying something different every day. It makes me wonder who is taking their weapon more seriously. The man or woman purchasing an inexpensive piece to carry every day? Or the man (seldom a woman) carrying some new kind of “doo-dad” every single day?

I thought about doing this very thing; selling all my range/carry guns and going strictly with HK (my favorite)…but I decided that it is much more important to experience the thrill of firing many different platforms, even if I don’t obtain maximum efficiency in any one gun, than to limit my experience to that one gun. Sure I own and carry a gun to protect myself, but that isn’t why I shoot every week. I shoot because it’s fun. When that feeling goes away, and I hope in never does, I may resort to using one type of gun. Until that sad day, I’ll continue to shoot my revolvers, autoloaders, and even bow or two, though the Mathews is a little hard on the small of my back.

 

[orangeninja]

I guess I'm weird in that I only own "work guns".....it's sad really. I buy guns, shoot them and love them, but everytime I pay bills I look at a gun that I don't carry as financial anchor. Maybe I'm just not as into the whole "hobby" thing as some.

 

[Sgt Stevo]

Armed bear

Go boy!

I have stopped taking advice from range guru types. Im sure they have knowledge but little has been useful to me.

It is easy to figure out who is full of sh*&. They can shoot, and dont generally push their knowledge on you.

I have gotton lots of crap, shooting my GLOCK 34. 9 is weak, barrel is too long, etc.

But I hit the target and shoot small groups everytime. But life is to short for me to care what another guy has in his safe.

I am not immpressed by guns, just shooters.......Stevo

 

[JohnKSa]

I agree, I'm not a collector either.

If something doesn't get shot much, I start thinking about selling it.

I will admit that I do have some "fun guns" that I shoot for recreation even though their pure utility is somewhat limited.

Most of my stuff is primarily oriented toward utility.

 

[Ankeny]

I used to collect some really nice guns (even though I can't afford them), but I made a 180 degree turn around and now the only guns I own are working guns and game guns. I do have some expensive competition guns, but I certainly don't pass them off as high zoot carry guns even though I could pack them around.

I used to carry a Les Baer PII because full size 1911's rock. Then I went to a Kimber Pro Carry to lighten the load. My arthritis got to kicking my butt so I dropped back to a 9mm in a Glock 26. Of the three, the Glock is my favorite hands down because it serves the intended purpose. Form follows function.

As for holsters, I sure do like Milt Sparks stuff so that's what I use. Yes, they are a bit expensive, but I really don't mind paying a bit extra for quality. Then again, I have been known to use Uncle Mike's plastic.

 

[Rembrandt]

I guess I'm weird in that I only own "work guns".....it's sad really. I buy guns, shoot them and love them, but everytime I pay bills I look at a gun that I don't carry as financial anchor. Maybe I'm just not as into the whole "hobby" thing as some.

We are quite different alduro....I've been blessed with the financial ability to afford both, working guns and collectibles. Never considered myself a snob for doing so. Afraid I don't reside in a high crime area, ( even though I do possess a CCW permit)...work guns for me are for hunting, not concealed carry.

I'm not wealthy, but I am a quality freak...have little interest in middle of the road products that get the job done for the least amount of money when there's something better. Rather spend the money for products that are better engineered with precision tolerances and superb craftsmanship. Found out a long time ago you get what you pay for. Do I spend more for quality than I need to get the job done?...yes, but don't care.

Do I use safe queens for hunting (work)?...absolutely. The assertion that it has to be one or the other is flawed. This perception is not the fault of the person having collectibles but the perception of the person who doesn't have them.

 

[orangeninja]

This perception is not the fault of the person having collectibles but the perception of the person who doesn't have them.

Again, I think some are missing the point. Hmmmm.......how about I rephrase it into something like this....

The Gunsnob quiz

1.) Do you look down upon ro scoff at the purchases and choices for carry guns because it doesn't look like those on the cover of Handgunner magazine?

2.) Do you lie about what you carry?

3.) Do you buy guns soley based on reputation and bragging rights?

4.) Do you misrepresent your "collection" "arsenal" or whatever in order to feel superior to others?

5.) Do you find yourself having difficulty telling the truth in a gun shop?

6.) Do you offer carry advice about guns when you yourself do not carry?

7.) Do you carry such a huge array of guns that you really don't even know how they all work or when the last time you shot it was?

8.) Do you own holsters that you wouldn't dare wear because they are too "pretty" but act as if you do wear them and recommend them to people looking for a holster?

9.) Do you own knives that you've never used, but again talk about how awsome they are and recommend them to people?

10.) Final question, do you carry something because some alphabet team somewhere in the world once did?

End of quiz.....

I guess this is an issue of elitism and honesty. A $3000 time worn and carried 1911 is a thing to be admired. A brand spanking new $3000 1911 with a custom holster (not broken in) and a scoffing smirk on your face would not be a thing to be admired.

I am not knocking gun collectors....my brother is one (I don't understand him) but he is one and there are times I am marveled by what he has. However he also has serious working pieces, and does not confuse the two catagories of fun gun/carry gun. Though at times fun gun and carry gun can be one and the same. But you wouldn't see him rolling his eyes at someone for carrying a $230.00 Bersa.

 

['Card]

I think what Alduro is getting at doesn't have much to do with what you buy or what you like - he's really talking about the attitude some people have towards guns they see as being "beneath" them, and the people who own them - and I for one agree with him 100%.

Come on... we see it on here all the time. Someone will post asking for advice on a handgun purchase, and they'll state clearly that cost is a major factor and they need to keep it on the cheap side. It never fails that half a dozen people will chime in and say "You'd be better off saving for a couple of months and buying a Kimber instead of that cheap crap!" (or an HK, or whatever) I get pretty chapped about it too. I'm fortunate in that I've gotten to a position in my life now where I make a good living and I can afford a few toys, but it wasn't all that long ago when spending $1500 on anything that didn't have four wheels simply wasn't possible.

Maybe the folks who make those kinds of comments have forgotten what being poor is like, or maybe they never had to deal with it - but either way the attitude is a little bit insulting and somewhat demeaning.

I'm no saint, though. I laugh at people who buy overpriced houses so they can live in the 'classy' subdivision, or buy bloated 'lux-boat' SUV's, or mega-bux guns and golf clubs to keep up with the Jones' - which is probably just as bad in its own way as being a snob.