I'd have to say he had you "stereotyped", with the long hair, and clothing. Not the proper way to greet a "potential" customer, and he probably knows that the "first impression of a person" is not always the correct one. Good luck in the future.
Gun Store Stereotyping
- Thread starter Wopasaurus
- Start date
- Status
have expericenced this also. the guy thought i was b-s'in him about my shotgun being broke. so he racked the slide throwing about 3 -4 full mags of shells at my feet. i almost stoped picking them up and told him if he needed someone to pick them up he should have thought before he threw them on the floor. so i talk to the boss and tell him my concern and he basically tells me the guy has a chip on his sholder from time to time and ignore him. he'd take a look and fix the problem. but the disrespect the guy showed me almost made me blow up his businnes(not literally but in the spread around his customer service approach way) and if mike the owner had not intervened i would have probably just called marlin myself and told him to shove it and ill find another gun shop.(the insulting guy also made many snide comments and told me about 3 times he cant send back a working gun. yet he had never fired it....he was x-detect. and obviously had labeled me as a punk he used to arrest or something)
highorder
Member
haha, thats great!
ieszu
Member
I own a gun store, work behind the counter at times, etc. I try to treat everyone with equal respect... all money is green (at least until they started putting weird colors on it).
However, if someone comes in, shooting their mouth off, giving out bad information or just plain wasting time (I had a guy come in, waste 2 hours over 3 days... only to buy the gun 20 min. away because it was $10 cheaper... then wanted to know why I wouldn't dicker with him over a box of 9mm) I have been known to get short with them.
I don't care what color you are, how you are dressed (so long as it is in clothing) or what group you are in (religion/sexuality/subculture).... but waste too much of my time or mistreat my weapons, and I will have an attitude.
However I am shown every darn Israeli weapon whenever I walk into a shop browsing when I am on vacation... Told the most outrageous lies about them (can't be true.... Desert Eagles were not used in the Israeli War of Independence, weren't designed until much later).... and yet they can't understand why I love the CZ's and 1911's so much better than the Uzi's.
So stereotyping goes both ways, everyone has to do their part to ignore it.... no matter who's side it is from.
However, if someone comes in, shooting their mouth off, giving out bad information or just plain wasting time (I had a guy come in, waste 2 hours over 3 days... only to buy the gun 20 min. away because it was $10 cheaper... then wanted to know why I wouldn't dicker with him over a box of 9mm) I have been known to get short with them.
I don't care what color you are, how you are dressed (so long as it is in clothing) or what group you are in (religion/sexuality/subculture).... but waste too much of my time or mistreat my weapons, and I will have an attitude.
However I am shown every darn Israeli weapon whenever I walk into a shop browsing when I am on vacation... Told the most outrageous lies about them (can't be true.... Desert Eagles were not used in the Israeli War of Independence, weren't designed until much later).... and yet they can't understand why I love the CZ's and 1911's so much better than the Uzi's.
So stereotyping goes both ways, everyone has to do their part to ignore it.... no matter who's side it is from.
Caleb Longstreet
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- Apr 8, 2008
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- 17
I'm sure that snubbie will survive the "beating" it took....just sounds like the guy is having a bad day AND stereotyping.....we all do to some extent regardless if it is fair or not....
For him to go off like that is a bit overboard....I'm sure you didn't slam it so hard that it won't survive......
Neat thing about the free enterprise system. It allows you to shop wherever you want. If it were me, I would have either;
1) Take a long breath and make eye contact while doing so, then state why you came in....great sales tactic...it's a subtle way for the client in front of you to either clear their head and realize oh so subtly they are acting irrational without saying so or,
2) Vote with your wallet. Go somewhere that will treat you better. In the end, everyone's prices are within APPROXIMATELY 10% of each other....go shop where you want, buy what you want, and enjoy it. $25 here or there isn't going to change your life. Not worth the aggravation......
Good luck,
For him to go off like that is a bit overboard....I'm sure you didn't slam it so hard that it won't survive......
Neat thing about the free enterprise system. It allows you to shop wherever you want. If it were me, I would have either;
1) Take a long breath and make eye contact while doing so, then state why you came in....great sales tactic...it's a subtle way for the client in front of you to either clear their head and realize oh so subtly they are acting irrational without saying so or,
2) Vote with your wallet. Go somewhere that will treat you better. In the end, everyone's prices are within APPROXIMATELY 10% of each other....go shop where you want, buy what you want, and enjoy it. $25 here or there isn't going to change your life. Not worth the aggravation......
Good luck,
I ask not respect for myself, but for all human beings ... i wear jeans and a polo shirt most of the time with cargo shorts and t-shirts filling out my wardrobe ... always with an arkansas baseball cap on ... im not good looking nore am i butt ugly ... i have abosultely no reason to worry about what people think of me ... but i think folks should follow the simple rule of always assuming good faith ... be ready to take action if that assumption prooves wrong ... but just cause someone dresses or looks a certain way, there is no reason to beleive they are peices of crap and shouldn't waste your time
I think this is a fundemental flaw with the gun industry. If you don't fit the mold of a "good ole boy", folks don't want to talk to you. They, of course, want you to vote/think/support/leave alone, their own beliefs, and if you don't then you must be a commie/socialist traitor who should move to Russia/China/England where you belong.
A lot of folks here have assumed that I am some kind of serious freak because of the vehemence in my replies. I'm not. My family is building a nice little house in a town with a population of 178. I have riden horses all my life and have a serious passion for the RKBA. I have also learned a long time ago, good people come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. I don''t expect anything when I meet them for the first time. I let the experience of talking to them build my thoughts on their personality. It's pretty darn fun too.
My two cents:
I think we are all getting WAY too bent out of shape over stereotyping.
This isn't a case of something like you race, religion, creed, sexual orientation, etc.
From what I got out of this, it is a question of appearance. Largely, that is something that is completely controllable.
Have I been "stereotyped" for appearance? Sure... since I've been doing my home restoration, probably daily. Never mind that most of the time, I am dressed business casual. But I do dress in T's and jeans stained with Red Mahogany stain a lot these days too.
But we are probably talking about more than that. So let's get it out of the way.
I'm 37 now. But I was a kid once. I had LONG heavy metal hair. I wore ripped up jeans. I wore snakeskin boots.
A lot of "older" people probably didn't care for my "look."
Guess what? That's fine. That was EXACTLY the "look" I was going for. I WANTED to be "counter-culture." I WANTED to get a rise out of people.
And I did.
Now, I am older. I dress like I am on a freakin' golf course. Never mind that I HATE golf. It's just easy to do, and makes no waves at work.
But I see the guys with outrageous "looks" today. Tell me... How EXACTLY are they doing anything that I wasn't doing 20 years ago? And How EXACTLY are they doing anything my Dad wasn't doing 40 years ago with those gawd-aweful bell-bottoms?
You want to make an impression? You want to have a "counter-culture" look? Well, you got one.
And you likely got the EXACT reaction that-- in most circumstances-- you were out to get.
Good for you. Except it isn't. We still find a way to complain about it.
Newsflash for us all:
If all the guys who aren't "with it" anymore accepted your "look," it WOULDN'T be cool anymore. You'd be all bent out of shape and desperately looking for the next edgy thing to shake up the old folks.
See, that's the whole point of counter-culture. It can't be mainsteam. When it is, it ain't counter to anything anymore.
Think about it. Now get over it. Society is just getting silly now.
By the way, this comes from a guy who has tattoos and piercings, but was farseeing enough to not get anything that I couldn't cover up when I needed to. Hell, I am still considering a huge backpiece that I had designed a while back.
And I'll still have the sense to cover it up when I need to. And when I want to show it, I'll have the common sense to not demand the exact opposite to what I was going for.
Again, just my 2 cents.
-- John
I think we are all getting WAY too bent out of shape over stereotyping.
This isn't a case of something like you race, religion, creed, sexual orientation, etc.
From what I got out of this, it is a question of appearance. Largely, that is something that is completely controllable.
Have I been "stereotyped" for appearance? Sure... since I've been doing my home restoration, probably daily. Never mind that most of the time, I am dressed business casual. But I do dress in T's and jeans stained with Red Mahogany stain a lot these days too.
But we are probably talking about more than that. So let's get it out of the way.
I'm 37 now. But I was a kid once. I had LONG heavy metal hair. I wore ripped up jeans. I wore snakeskin boots.
A lot of "older" people probably didn't care for my "look."
Guess what? That's fine. That was EXACTLY the "look" I was going for. I WANTED to be "counter-culture." I WANTED to get a rise out of people.
And I did.
Now, I am older. I dress like I am on a freakin' golf course. Never mind that I HATE golf. It's just easy to do, and makes no waves at work.
But I see the guys with outrageous "looks" today. Tell me... How EXACTLY are they doing anything that I wasn't doing 20 years ago? And How EXACTLY are they doing anything my Dad wasn't doing 40 years ago with those gawd-aweful bell-bottoms?
You want to make an impression? You want to have a "counter-culture" look? Well, you got one.
And you likely got the EXACT reaction that-- in most circumstances-- you were out to get.
Good for you. Except it isn't. We still find a way to complain about it.
Newsflash for us all:
If all the guys who aren't "with it" anymore accepted your "look," it WOULDN'T be cool anymore. You'd be all bent out of shape and desperately looking for the next edgy thing to shake up the old folks.
See, that's the whole point of counter-culture. It can't be mainsteam. When it is, it ain't counter to anything anymore.
Think about it. Now get over it. Society is just getting silly now.
By the way, this comes from a guy who has tattoos and piercings, but was farseeing enough to not get anything that I couldn't cover up when I needed to. Hell, I am still considering a huge backpiece that I had designed a while back.
And I'll still have the sense to cover it up when I need to. And when I want to show it, I'll have the common sense to not demand the exact opposite to what I was going for.
Again, just my 2 cents.
-- John
Sap,
I think you have it wrong about
I've been into firearms all my life-- and I'll tell you this. While a lot of people outside of this area would probably see me as a "good ole boy," the people around here really don't.
In fact, growing up, some thought of me as exactly the opposite.
Even so, they REALLY liked the money that I gave them for firearms when I was growing up (bought in Dad's name.) Many would sit around and chat it up with me for hours over this gun and that-- because I was respectful, willing to learn, and generally acted decent.
And they still thought I was one of those crazy kids who couldn't find his butt with both hands even if he had a big ol' butt-map.
I seriously think that the handling of the firearm as you related did more harm.
I'll explain it better:
You may have well had an appearance that tugged at a desire to "stereotype." But the jury may well have been out. The INSTANT he saw you handle the revolver like that, he probably sealed his preconcieved ideas.
You had an opportunity to change his potential opinion, and he likely gave it to you-- whether you realized it or not.
While I do NOT wish this to be critical, it appears that you failed his test.
If someone handled a firearm that I've spent my money on in that manner-- whether it is personal or in a shop I may have owned, I'd likely feel the same way.
-- John
I think you have it wrong about
I've been into firearms all my life-- and I'll tell you this. While a lot of people outside of this area would probably see me as a "good ole boy," the people around here really don't.
In fact, growing up, some thought of me as exactly the opposite.
Even so, they REALLY liked the money that I gave them for firearms when I was growing up (bought in Dad's name.) Many would sit around and chat it up with me for hours over this gun and that-- because I was respectful, willing to learn, and generally acted decent.
And they still thought I was one of those crazy kids who couldn't find his butt with both hands even if he had a big ol' butt-map.
I seriously think that the handling of the firearm as you related did more harm.
I'll explain it better:
You may have well had an appearance that tugged at a desire to "stereotype." But the jury may well have been out. The INSTANT he saw you handle the revolver like that, he probably sealed his preconcieved ideas.
You had an opportunity to change his potential opinion, and he likely gave it to you-- whether you realized it or not.
While I do NOT wish this to be critical, it appears that you failed his test.
If someone handled a firearm that I've spent my money on in that manner-- whether it is personal or in a shop I may have owned, I'd likely feel the same way.
-- John
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Sage of Seattle
Member
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- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 773
Huh. The store owner "fell all over himself" did he? Or the OP felt that the store owner should "fall all over himself" to help him?
And, for the record, from what I understood, Sapanther DID feel he knew how to operate a firearm correctly -- having been told how to by a LEO, so why should he have asked? So, the information he was given was erroneous. Okay. I've been driving a car for about twenty years now. Should I go into a new car dealership and ask them how to drive a car correctly before I test drive it?
If it were me in that shop? I would have apologized for closing the cylinder too roughly, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna take being talked to like the shop owner came across in the OP. There is simply no call to call another person a "stupid idiot" for misinformation. As far as all you guys here on THR who are gun shop owners or employees, these sorts of things really give you guys a bad name, you know that? Seems that it's easier to rip on Sapanther for not being professional but whose JOB is it really?
Don't expect to be greeted warmly? Why shouldn't I be? What makes gun shop owners more entitled to treat you like garbage than Wal*Mart or any other place that WANTS TO SELL YOU THINGS? Good God, this makes me mad. Apparently this is the level of common decency or courtesy we expect from clerks.
"Um... sir, please don't close the cylinder that roughly. It may not seem so, but the mechanism can be damaged doing that."
How bloody hard is that? I guess since many people are describing themselves, I'm 36 and dress in business casual for the most part. I think I may own a pair of sweats, I'm not sure. I own one t-shirt that has a logo on it. I've got a goatee and 'stache and I just recently got my first tattoo on my forearm to celebrate my marriage. It's small, black ink only and can be covered by a sleeve, though it's visible enough while wearing short sleeves. Nevertheless, I don't find it too difficult to try and take as much bias out of my daily interactions with others, why is that so hard for people WHO ARE TRYING TO SELL STUFF to do?
How is it rightfully so that they're needing to be suspicious?
Yeah, and the shop owner picked out what to say and he's now being judged accordingly. He chose to respond in a overreactive manner and got some attitude in return. Who knows? I may have done the same, though again, I almost always am polite, even to the rudest people.
Maybe that gunshop needs to be named on THR so we can avoid going there/doing business there. After all, he chose to "not waste his time" either and it's a huge inconvenience to give someone the benefit of the doubt before insulting another person.
Well, heck. I guess the old saying is correct: "The [strike]customer[/strike] shop owner is always right!"
[/mad]
Sage of Seattle, I agree 100%. If you don't give me the respect until you have my money in hand, well you will never have my money.
I'm willing to pay MORE for something as long as I like the person selling it. At gun shows I have gone to other tables asking more and bought their stuff. Same thing at gun stores. Out of the 4 gun stores close to me, I will only visit 1. The rest treat me like crap, and this get none of my business or my family's. My extended family as a whole tends to buy a lot of guns as we hunt, and all the grandkids are just starting to get old enough to actually get a real gun.
Why does it matter what I am wearing? My money is just as good as the next persons. If you want to be in business, and have a good reputation, just respect everyone that walks through your door.
I'm willing to pay MORE for something as long as I like the person selling it. At gun shows I have gone to other tables asking more and bought their stuff. Same thing at gun stores. Out of the 4 gun stores close to me, I will only visit 1. The rest treat me like crap, and this get none of my business or my family's. My extended family as a whole tends to buy a lot of guns as we hunt, and all the grandkids are just starting to get old enough to actually get a real gun.
Why does it matter what I am wearing? My money is just as good as the next persons. If you want to be in business, and have a good reputation, just respect everyone that walks through your door.
drew h, You are absolutely right. I do have the mowhawk to fit a certain image. I fight MMA and like the look. I understand why i get treated the way I do at gun shops, i was just saying certain places have been kinder then others. I accept that people are going to give me a hard time based on my mowhawk and my age. Does it suck? You bet, but I understand this and accept it. If it bothered me so badly i'd shave it off. But I am not planning on doing that anytime soon.
If you are going to complain because people give you a hard time because of the way you look, get used to it. Because I guarentee you do the same thing. When you see someone who looks like a gangbanger you treat them as such. Someone dresses as a bussiness man, you treat them accordingly, and so on.
If you are going to complain because people give you a hard time because of the way you look, get used to it. Because I guarentee you do the same thing. When you see someone who looks like a gangbanger you treat them as such. Someone dresses as a bussiness man, you treat them accordingly, and so on.
My daily dress varies from shorts/t-shirt to jacket/tie. I live in the south and am addressed as sir in jacket/tie. Rarely happens in shorts/t-shirt.
Stereotyped? Unquestionably.
Problem? None at all.
Reminds me of that old piece of advice: "Dress for the job you want, not the job you have."
Also: "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
--George Bernard Shaw, Maxims for Revolutionists
Stereotyped? Unquestionably.
Problem? None at all.
Reminds me of that old piece of advice: "Dress for the job you want, not the job you have."
Also: "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
--George Bernard Shaw, Maxims for Revolutionists
knockonit
Member
Ha Ha, took four pages of posts to wear ya down,
Arguing with fellas on THR is like telling a pig to stay outta the mud, they like it, love it in fact, lots of good points, lots of Bullssssst, but hey its only the internet, most the old boys ain't gonna change, just gotta grin and bear. Hey good luck next time, maybe you get the luck of the draw and walk into a great gunstore and not have to deal with a holes.
ole fat guy.
Arguing with fellas on THR is like telling a pig to stay outta the mud, they like it, love it in fact, lots of good points, lots of Bullssssst, but hey its only the internet, most the old boys ain't gonna change, just gotta grin and bear. Hey good luck next time, maybe you get the luck of the draw and walk into a great gunstore and not have to deal with a holes.
ole fat guy.
Sage of Seattle
Member
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- May 24, 2006
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- 773
Oops, sorry. My bad. It's wopasaurus, not Sapanther. Got my animals confused!
Dark_Harvest
Member
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- Jan 23, 2007
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- 96
to quote Sapanther:
"folks around here dont seem to be reading what anyone says"
You will see quite a bit more of this if you stick around. Don't bother trying to explain anything. Most people here stick with the first loud, incorrect statement that bursts from their keyboard, and will ignore anything said after that.
"folks around here dont seem to be reading what anyone says"
You will see quite a bit more of this if you stick around. Don't bother trying to explain anything. Most people here stick with the first loud, incorrect statement that bursts from their keyboard, and will ignore anything said after that.
toopercentmlk
Member
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- Feb 13, 2008
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- 126
If your appearance is non-conformist, people will treat you as such a person who does not follow rules and has a disregard for authority.
With that said, I'm young and Hispanic(sometimes already a minus) with a few visible tatoos, but polite and otherwise clean cut.
With that said, I'm young and Hispanic(sometimes already a minus) with a few visible tatoos, but polite and otherwise clean cut.
toopercentmlk
Member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2008
- Messages
- 126
I'd like to add that that specific gun store owner sounded like a total dick that hates teenagers, even though you are probably around mid twenties? It's hit or miss when I go into a mom&pop gun store, either I get treated like a nice young man who might give them some of my money, or a broke "kid" who wants to play with guns.
lvcat2004
Member
Isn't sterotyping a convenient excuse?
I hate to say it, but I'm not sure if this was as much of a "stereotyping" issue as the OP wants it to be, but rather the store owner's reaction to OP's mishandling the firearm. He didn't call the OP a "stupid idiot", he called the person who misinformed him the "stupid idiot".
After all, this sounds too much like some group of people who keep saying "I was mistreated because I'm XXXXX!!"
Well, unfortunately some of that still exists in this society, but a lot of times, you get mistreated because of what you did, and sterotyping is just a convenient excuse out of it. Prejudices and sterotyping will always exits in this society, and I certainly don't condone it, but just learn to live with it. If you purposefully act/dress in a certain way that facilitates stereotyping, then you're just asking for more...learn to live with it.
I hate to say it, but I'm not sure if this was as much of a "stereotyping" issue as the OP wants it to be, but rather the store owner's reaction to OP's mishandling the firearm. He didn't call the OP a "stupid idiot", he called the person who misinformed him the "stupid idiot".
After all, this sounds too much like some group of people who keep saying "I was mistreated because I'm XXXXX!!"
Well, unfortunately some of that still exists in this society, but a lot of times, you get mistreated because of what you did, and sterotyping is just a convenient excuse out of it. Prejudices and sterotyping will always exits in this society, and I certainly don't condone it, but just learn to live with it. If you purposefully act/dress in a certain way that facilitates stereotyping, then you're just asking for more...learn to live with it.
coloradokevin
Member
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- Mar 22, 2008
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- 3,285
sage of seattle said:
Perhaps I stated that poorly. I don't mean that there is any problems with the customers, per say... But rather that a lot of these smaller shops (in my experiences, and talking with the owners) have dealt with the anti-gun sentiment in their communities.
One shop owner (in an upscale part of a revitalized "old town" area, in another state) once told me that he was constantly feeling political pressure from local officials because his business (a class III dealer) didn't exactly fit with the "mold" that the city had come up with for that area.
Another one told me how he sometimes had anti-gun types come in an tell him how evil guns are, and how they wished he wasn't in business.
So, I wasn't trying to imply any issue with the OP, or gun buyers, but just trying to highlight some of the additional BS that I've heard some shop owners complain about over the years (things that, if I were in their shoes, would likely not make me overly trusting of strangers).
Intune
Member
Sapanther-
Sometimes first impressions aren’t visual…
Text much?
Yp, dood … if u like wana b h8n on old ppl n pimpn OK Sooners hat all jacked gangster ppl r gona dis u …. word
You never should have slammed that pistol shut. What were you thinking, young pup? First you do it, then you argue with the guy and lastly, you come on here & try to deny it. What a loser. Oh, no, wait… Looser…
As us old folks say, chill out. Art's Grammaw don't play ****** or @#$%^! at all. Take a breath & go enjoy those horses. The OK Sooners part just killed I'll be here all week... Anyone still lost see post #89
Sometimes first impressions aren’t visual…
Text much?
Yp, dood … if u like wana b h8n on old ppl n pimpn OK Sooners hat all jacked gangster ppl r gona dis u …. word
You never should have slammed that pistol shut. What were you thinking, young pup? First you do it, then you argue with the guy and lastly, you come on here & try to deny it. What a loser. Oh, no, wait… Looser…
As us old folks say, chill out. Art's Grammaw don't play ****** or @#$%^! at all. Take a breath & go enjoy those horses. The OK Sooners part just killed I'll be here all week... Anyone still lost see post #89
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delta53
Member
?
Long hair+ Tattoos =something wrong, Maybe its just me
Long hair+ Tattoos =something wrong, M
aybe its just mejoseph5156
Member
i try to live by the 100 people rule. yeah, it's my own thing, but i think it works. if you poll 100 people about a given topic, what will the majority say or how will they answer? now, if we believe that people are generally good, then the majority's response should be followed to the extent it will keep you out of trouble!
i consider myself a gun nut in that i love guns and enjoy them thoroughly, but not at the risk of treating someone poorly especially if you are a business owner trying to entice the public to buy your goods, services and yes, guns. again, the gun is an object. human connection is infinitely more important! isn't that the high road? in the end, say it with your dollars... go somewhere else and spread the word on poor service and rude behavior! have a good day ya'll.
i consider myself a gun nut in that i love guns and enjoy them thoroughly, but not at the risk of treating someone poorly especially if you are a business owner trying to entice the public to buy your goods, services and yes, guns. again, the gun is an object. human connection is infinitely more important! isn't that the high road? in the end, say it with your dollars... go somewhere else and spread the word on poor service and rude behavior! have a good day ya'll.
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