Gun Store Stereotyping

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So, I wasn't trying to imply any issue with the OP, or gun buyers, but just trying to highlight some of the additional BS that I've heard some shop owners complain about over the years (things that, if I were in their shoes, would likely not make me overly trusting of strangers).

Ah, okay. I appreciate your thoughtful response to my mini-rant; that does clear up what it was that I didn't quite understand.


Don't bother trying to explain anything. Most people here stick with the first loud, incorrect statement that bursts from their keyboard, and will ignore anything said after that.

"Most people" on THR do a hell of a lot more to keep it on the high road than every other board I've been on and/or lurking about and even the best posters among us go off every once in a while.

Seeing those particular peoples' responses of keeping it on the high road helps me do the same.

Doesn't always work, but hey, I'm only human and I keep on tryin'. :)
 
i try to live by the 100 people rule... if you poll 100 people about a given topic, what will the majority say or how will they answer? ...the majority's response should be followed to the extent it will keep you out of trouble!

i consider myself a gun nut in that i love guns and enjoy them thoroughly, but not at the risk of treating someone poorly especially if you are a business owner trying to entice the public to buy your goods, services and yes, guns. again, the gun is an object. human connection is infinitely more important! isn't that the high road? in the end, say it with your dollars... go somewhere else and spread the word on poor service and rude behavior! have a good day ya'll.
joserph5156, seems you contradict yourself in that your post was coincidentally #100, yet you reject the majority opinion of those 100 posts.
 
i try to live by the 100 people rule... if you poll 100 people about a given topic, what will the majority say or how will they answer? ...the majority's response should be followed to the extent it will keep you out of trouble!

???
So you're gonna agree with 100 randomly selected people from San Francisco on ownership of firearms and legality of CCW and go with it??

You're gonna agree with 100 average German citizen in 1940 as to what we should do with all those Jews in Germany and Poland??

Or listen to 100 Average citizens in Motgomery, AL in 1955 as to where negros should sit on a bus??

Or are you gonna listen to YOURSELF with your own reasonings?? I choose the latter myself, but that's just me.

Besides, BTG3 is exactly right...you went against the previous 100 general opinions that OP was probably at fault, not the store owner. I disagree with your opinion, but I'd respect you more if you stuck with your justifiable opinion rather than go with the flow of 100 others you don't know. I guess you're with Obama/Clinton this come election year if they win the majority??
 
I myself have a large ammount of tattoos and most i would have to wear a suit to hide them.
But its no secret that people look down on large ammounts of tattoos.
When myself or anyone else went into that tattoo parlor and decided that we wanted to stand out with all our ink we also excepted that there are going to be people out there that look down on us. And will automaticaly think that we are biker/convict/trouble.
So if we with tattoos dont want our feelings hurt because people think we are bad then we need to make sure to cover them up when going somewhere you want to be treated like a normal joe.
WE decided to get the tattoos... and WE have to accept not 100% of people like them... so WE have to make sure to look "normal" when wanting something from someone.
 
Ha Ha, took four pages of posts to wear ya down,
Arguing with fellas on THR is like telling a pig to stay outta the mud, they like it, love it in fact, lots of good points, lots of Bullssssst, but hey its only the internet, most the old boys ain't gonna change, just gotta grin and bear. Hey good luck next time, maybe you get the luck of the draw and walk into a great gunstore and not have to deal with a holes.
ole fat guy.

Lol Actually, I have been called the most annoying poster ever on another forum because I wouldn't back down. When I feel a cause is just, even if it is "just" the internet, I keep at it like an elephant trying to deflower the ant. I like this place though. Would rather not piss off too many folks.
 
and this thread just reminded me why i stoped hanging out over here so much.... my lord, ya'll will beat a dead horse, then throw it off a cliff!!!!

i run into problems in gunstores and at gunshows all the time. why? becuase i am a 24 year old women, who is, ahem, rather well endowed with a pretty little girl face.
i find the best way to avoid issues is to make my point and then be nice. usually it all goes well if you just establish that you DON'T appreciate being talked down to, then let it go.
i went to a gunshow this weekend. some ancient guy asked me "are you lookin' to buy a gun for your boyfriend, sweetheart?"
i responded with an emphatic "hell no, if i'm buyin' a gun, its for me" and a SMILE. ended up chatting with the guy and his friend for a couple minutes before moving on.
if you know you don't fit the mold, accept it and make it work for you. i've found with the older gentlemen (who are a bit less inclined to accept me) that directly confronting the diffrences with a joke is easier on me and its easier on them. they see you as diffrent, but you become acceptable to them. sort of "well she's diffrent, but she's one of ours".

also don't forget that those "old farts" probably get as much crap from guys dressed like you as you got from them. they get on the defensive when they see some punk kid that might call them old and crusty (and not in a nice silly way, like me *grin*).

and now that poor horse has been completly oblitorated.
 
Argh... BSL, your experience maddens me. I've long been of the opinion that collectively, us gun owners get the politicians we deserve. Here's my signature on another forum that caters to female shooters:

The chauvinist, arrogant, jerk on the range or behind the gun counter does as much damage to the Second Amendment as Dianne Fienstien. They serve to alienate fully half of the voting base. I hold them in equal contempt.
 
One of my favorite encounters with a gun shop was walking into a store with a ridiculously-priced inventory, and politely asking, "Do you sell Boresnakes?" With no provocation, the owner played the "David vs. Goliath" card and said, "We can't compete with K-Mart." (And, K-Mart had no such items, when I checked.) I could easily understand an answer of "No," or, "We don't stock them because we don't sell many of them," but their answer was uncalled for. May their going-out-of business sale be fruitful. I ordered from Midway.

-Sans Authoritas
 
Without reading through 5 pages, can anyone explain what's so good about revolvers that they can't take a little snap of the cylinder? Geez, everything I ever heard about revolvers is how indestructible they are, but the guy may have snapped it shut a bit hard and everyone gasps like he scratched a $15k beretta...I don't like guns that could break easily through a normal operation; if I were ever in a gunfight the one I'd be holding will NOT be one that requires "soft" force with two hands to reload properly...
 
siglite,

yes they're are the jerks and whatnot, and i will verbally b**** slap them from here till next year.
but usually i find thats its not sexism that drives them. its that they just never meet the female shooters. they make an assuption thats based on a lifetime of experiance. once they relize that you like guns just as much as they do, you stop being 'just a girl' and start being a fellow enthusist.
and those 'old pharts' tend to know their stuff. *grin* most of them just want some respect and to be listined to.
 
Without reading through 5 pages, can anyone explain what's so good about revolvers that they can't take a little snap of the cylinder? Geez, everything I ever heard about revolvers is how indestructible they are, but the guy may have snapped it shut a bit hard and everyone gasps like he scratched a $15k beretta...I don't like guns that could break easily through a normal operation; if I were ever in a gunfight the one I'd be holding will NOT be one that requires "soft" force with two hands to reload properly...

to much force on a regular basis can damage the crane. its one thing to close it firmly and another to slam it. it just doesn't take that much force to close it properly.

its the same priciple behind always riding the slide shut instead of letting it slam when you are not chambering a round. (i put that last bit in bold 'cause i just know somebody won't read the whole thing and go off :rolleyes: )

most of us like our guns and treat them gently so that if the time comes and we need them they are in good working order and can stand the abuse.
 
When you purposely present yourself as different from normal society, don't be surprised if society treats you differently.

Do remember: Sarah Brady thinks you're different.
 
When I walk into a retail store, I'm not a guest in someone's home. The items on the shelves are not just "someone else's property;" they're merchandise that the store owner is offering for sale. Of course it's not OK to break things, but merchants who act like they're doing favors to their customers just by unlocking their doors need not be rewarded for their poor manners. Gun stores often seem to get away with behavior that is punished anywhere else in retail.

I've run a shoe store. I've worked at a large electronics retailer. I've been a grocer a couple of times. If you run a retail store, and if your goal is anything other than to get my money in honest transactions, then to hell with you. I'll buy elsewhere.

If you run a retail store, treat me as a wallet on two legs. Provide me with the kind of service that such a world view entails. We'll get along just fine, and you'll get my money.
 
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"Businesses can refuse to sell you anything they want. Then don't have to actually help you either.

You are walking in THEIR store. Merchandise is THEIR property. Since they are trying to sell the merchandise they appreciate it if you handle it gently.

Oh, and I am 25......"

Sure, you can refuse Service to anyone, But you'd better have a
"legal" reason, otherwise, you may find ourself the Respondent in a Law suit; and the Court Cost could bankrupt your business.

Think "GREEN", you want your business to generate as much Revenue as possible, you don't do that by offending potential customers.
 
I would have to agree with most the people on here. I have been barked at gun shops before the owner would even let me see the gun. You got to remember that the guns are the property of the gun shop owner and are not your own. So you got to handle in a way that is respectful as it is someone else’s property. If you buy it and take it home, you can handle it any way you want.

As for your attire, that can contribute to a perceived stereotype and stigma. When I go in to a shop dressed up in my button up shirts and khakis they treat me like I don’t know what I am doing. When I go in my carhartts they give me more leeway. If I go in dressed in ratty ole t-shirts and mesh shorts I get a different attitude where as I am either stupid or less than trustable. These were all different gun shops in my area and not my usual places. But, I am just saying people sometimes judge you based upon your dress, your right on that regard.
Just go to the places you normally go and you wont have that problem as they will already know who you are. It’s a good idea to get on good terms with your local gun shop guys.

Anyway, don’t sweat it. You don’t need to get worked up about it because it’s no big deal. You didn’t loose anything, if anything he lost a customer.
 
I think you should go to 10 gun shops dressed in khakis and a polo shirt, slam shut the cylinder, see how the owner reacts, then go to 10 different gun shops dressed in a wifebeater with all your tattoos showing and don't slam the cylinder, just talk to the owner about something else, and see how he treats you. Gather some data. (Half joking...half serious.)

I try out a lot of guitars and basses at music stores and I generally use the same protocol as with guns - treat it very gently.
 
Let's not overlook the fact that some gunshop owners/employees are simply curmudgeons and treat everyone equally poorly. (The majority of the poor treatment in the OP came before the gun handling, for those stuck on that aspect.) Some are worse than others. Some of these guys can be outright rude and disrespectful if you ask a simple question, or disagree with whatever product they feel like pushing on you, and some are simply close-mouthed and not particularly friendly.

I used to go to a local gun shop run by a crew of curmudgeons. You just don't get a warm response out of these guys, regardless of who you are. Even after making several firearms purchases there, as well as regular trips for range supplies/ammo, over the period of a couple of years, I never got anything approaching a warm greeting out of these guys, nor were they ever outright rude. They didn't like chit-chat, and had little patience for any questions or chit-chat, answering as tersely as possible.

Now, that didn't bother me. My father's from Alabama, and we've visited a lot of his family in very rural areas. My mother is from Pennsylvania. I was born and raised in Florida, amongst a variety of folks. Consequently, I never developed any accent one way or the other. Guess how the old men behind the counters of any place of business I've gone into in such areas treated me?

Yep, same as the curmudgeons in the gun store, who were likely bred of similar stock (this was in an East Bay area where there were a lot of folks from OK and similar areas settled in).

Sometimes, a curmudgeon's just a curmudgeon.

Sometimes, I deal with them, sometimes I walk away. I never get worked up about it, because there's no point. I don't try to move mountains, change the course of rivers, or get a curmudgeon to talk to me. Just not worth the time.
 
.... I have tons of tattoos, shaggier hair (I need to cut it, I know, don't remind me ), and I wasn't dressed up, just in shorts and a t-shirt....


.... I'm 18, have a mowhawk, and like to wear band tee's (you know, metallica, ac/dc, etc...)..... being 18, with a mowhawk, it makes buying anything gun related into an adventure everytime.

I hate to break this to you guys, but people do judge you on your appearance. No offense, but if you go around looking like a scumbag, don't be surprised when people treat you like one. I'm sure you are both perfectly fine gentlemen but your appearances are, shall we say, a bit off-putting.
 
I hate to break this to you guys, but people do judge you on your appearance. No offense, but if you go around looking like a scumbag, don't be surprised when people treat you like one. I'm sure you are both perfectly fine gentlemen but your appearances are, shall we say, a bit off-putting.

:what:


Dude ... your arguing AGAINST people who are on the SAME side as you! Holy crap people, would you at least freaking read the posts you quote. This is a perfect example of prejudice. You see that someone says they have tattoos and automaticaly think they are asking to be treated equally. Then you see someone asking for folks to be treated equally and automaticly think they are some kind of scumbag.
 
It may be everyones right to judge you by your appearance, but it isn't always right.

*WARNING: LONG MESSAGE/RANT AHEAD*.

After my father started his home business, he quickly learned that when he drove his old van while wearing a plain shirt and pants that were worn, he would get treated like **** by most of the store owners he was trying to sell to as well as the other vendors. It wasn't his fault, it was all he could afford. Wearing a suit and driving a new Cadillac is not always a choice.

However, he also learned that many of the store owners who used to treat him like **** and the other vendors, who were always bragging about there brand new fancy large camper or truck, were actually the ones who didn't have any money. The store owners and other vendors would buy from him, give him a check, and guess what? They would bounce time and time again, and those same store owners would eventually go out of business. They didn't have a bunch of money because they owned a store and had employees, they just spent a lot money.

The guys who had the new campers and trucks? They lost them quickly because they couldn't afford them from the beginning.


While driving under the same circumstances as stated above, my father would be stopped by cops more often and would be told he performed some made up illegal maneuver. And when they would walk up to the van and see a Mexican looking guy with a white female passenger, the question proposed was "Who's that?" referring to the white woman. From their mannerisms, you could tell they thought he was picking up a prostitute.

The funny thing is he isn't Mexican and she wasn't a prostitute.


It is not uncommon for people to treat me differently, and sometimes in a disrespectful way. Is it because of the way I dress? Sometimes I suppose. I mostly dress casual but my clothes aren't full of holes and my pants don't sag down off my ass, if that means anything. However, I look like a Mexican and look a few years younger then I actually am, I have a small frame and lean body composition, am no more then 5' 3", and currently weigh somewhere between 125-128 pounds.

Why do I sometimes get shrugged off and snubbed at or subtly treated like I'm in a different class when meeting new people when the other bigger guys are not? The only thing that somewhat gets me through that division is my personality and people skills. According to M-W.com, the definition of disappoint is: "to fall short in satisfying the expectation or hope of", and in these cases I don't expect to be treated equally, I hope for it, and am often disappointed.

In a situation like this is it wrong to complain about being treated differently by your society due to your looks even though you can not ever change them?

The point being made is don't always judge someone by their looks and property. When someone drives up in a brand new Cadillac and is dressed in the most expensive clothing, it doesn't mean they have a lot of money, it just means they probably spent a lot of money. And the money they spent may not have been theirs; it could have been plenty of credit and loans where they are now up to their neck in bills.


Note: This post is not specifically directed toward anyone.
 
Being younger i usually get the what does this dumb kid want. I dress in casual clothes, short hair no tattoos or anything, collared shirt/jeans. Pretty much casual office work clothes that I wear to work. So I know the look I get when coming in the door Is over age and not appearance.

Most of them change their tone and become pretty polite when I open my mouth and they realize i know what I'm talking a bout and I have cash. Too bad too. I've been treated pretty bad in some places and they lost my business.

I've even had a guy give me the dumb kid treatment when asking questions about a gun I was ready to pay 300$ in cash for. I ended up getting it somewhere else and go there from now on. It's probably a good thing I've had it happen because I always remember that everyone starts out new with guns, and I never assume I know more than anybody. Because I usually don't. You also learn a lot more that way.
 
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A person's appearance says a lot about a person. Humans, being visual creatures, take what we see and interpret it. This isn't being bigoted or stereotyping, it's just natural. Why are you guys surprised that when you dress like punks, people treat you as such?

Every situation requires a certain level of situational awareness, forcing us to make generalized decisions to keep us safe. I can imagine that it would be the same for gun shop owners.

If you guys want to be respected, look respectable. If you don't, don't be surprised if people treat you differently because you look different.
 
When im going to a gunstore i dress in clothes that are "casuall", i guess, i dont wear the clothes i normally wear.. metallica shirts, ozzy, stuff like that, seems like people think less of you for wearing clothes like that, think your a "punk" and treat you differently for it. despite what people think i do not cause mischief, steal, or do anything agenst the law, i respect the law, but somtimes the choice of clothes makes people think you are somone your not.. "dont judge a book by its cover".
 
One of the local gunshops is run by a "scumbag" with long hair, a long beard and he usually dresses in biker gear. I myself have really "scumbaggy" long hair, but most gun shop guys treat me really well. probably because I usually wear faded fatigues and have a natural-born 1,000 yd stare.

bdicken - you need to get out more. Seriously. The 50's were almost 60 years ago.:)
 
When you choose your clothing for the day you are choosing what face you present to the world -- punk or professional, thug or redneck, student or blue-collar worker, rebel against authority or responsible citizen. Its under your control.

It doesn't cost any more to shave, comb your hair carefully, clean the mud off your shoes, and wear a polo and khakis then it does to do "just rolled out of bed" look grooming while wearing baggy jeans and a metal band t-shirt.

When I went to a gun show recently I deliberately wore my Nascar driver gear because I figured that would create a more gun-competent impression than a blouse with pink lace on it would. It worked and I only got the condescending "little lady" treatment at one booth (and that was an institutional thing for them because as I walked up I heard a salesman spout that awful line "I always recommend revolvers for women because semi-autos are too complicated").

But if I want to get business marketing advice from the Chamber of Commerce I wear stockings and a Channel-style suit.

Once you're out of school and living in the real world you have to realize that its not just about what's comfortable and easy to throw in the wash anymore. Adults think about the image they present to the world and what it says about who they are -- then they adjust it to the circumstances and environment they want to succeed in.

If people don't take you seriously try taking yourself more seriously by dressing more seriously. Put on a shirt with a collar and iron creases into your pants.

Just as your words become your face on the internet, with sloppy grammar and spelling creating one impression and thoughtful posts creating a different one, your clothes represent you to everyone you meet before you open your mouth for the first time. And if your Mom doesn't dress you anymore you have no one but yourself to blame if the impression you actually create isn't the one you wanted to create. :)
 
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