Guns, schools, and more bizarre charges

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strat81

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080301/ap_on_re_us/school_lockdown

Student arrested after Calif. lockdown

By DAISY NGUYEN, Associated Press Writer 5 minutes ago

PASADENA, Calif. - Police on Friday arrested a student suspected of carrying a handgun on campus, forcing a daylong lockdown and search at a high school.

The male student was taken into custody on suspicion of possessing a firearm, police said. They did not say whether a weapon was found.

SWAT teams were sent to Blair International Baccalaureate School shortly before 9:30 a.m. after a faculty member reported that someone on campus had seen a man with a handgun, police Lt. Tom Pederson said.

One student reported that another was armed, Pasadena Unified School District spokeswoman Binti Harvey said.

As a precaution, all 1,200 students were confined to classrooms for hours as police searched the campus, formerly called Blair High School. Anxious parents waited outside for hours until their children began being released after 5 p.m.

Blair East, an adjoining middle school, also was locked down; those students were released at midafternoon. Officials did not search off the campus.

Students were individually searched, then taken in small groups to a gymnasium, walking with hands on their heads. Some parents watching from afar wondered why it was necessary or said they were frustrated by a lack of information.

"Nobody knows what's going on," said Tami Waters, mother of an eighth-grader at the middle school. "I think it's causing a lot more stress than necessary."

Pasadena is about 15 miles northeast of downtown Los Angeles.


I don't get it... how can you arrest someone on a suspicion charge? Could the police arrest whoever they want on suspicion of a crime, incarcerate them for however long, and then say "oops, sorry"?

Is a single student who may or may not be carrying a gun probably cause for systematically searching the student population? :uhoh:

Perhaps one of THR's legal eagles could explain it to me (seriously, not being flippant here). It sounds like a trampling of the 4A.
 
Students don't have the same rights as adults, and it was established long ago that schools may restrict rights as they see fit for the safety of the student body. For example, a school may ban certain cloths, expression of speech, randomly search lockers, etc.

As for the search of the general population, it really depends. There were two witnesses, and if one had given a different description, or if the student suspected of having the gun said he brought it for defense against a perceived threat from another student, then the Police could be held criminally negligent if there was a later shooting. It really just depends
 
It may be legal, but it is sure heavyhanded and abusive, and really not fair considering that school attendance isn't voluntary. What would happen if a troubled student had a panic attack and took off running, would they shoot him? What if a student refused to cooperate?
 
Quite awhile ago when I was in High School I refused to let them search my backpack. As soon as they told me they were going to search me, I jumped up and ran off school property dumped everything I had on me and promptly returned.

I got in trouble (insubordination/disobedience/leaving school property during class hours). However, the meager punishment for those transgressions (couple days of detention) definitely beat getting caught with the items I had in my bag.

Always run and deny everything. Principals aren't your pal. You don't have to give up your rights in high school (my god given rights didn't cease to exist once on school property), you'll just get punished for utilizing them.

/Ended my very lucrative business of cigarette resale.
//Probably still a good way for a kid to earn an illicit buck. High schoolers will pay an outrageous amount for one or two cigarettes.
 
yup constitutional rights vary in schools. just like they can search your locker, without your consent, in public schools, at least in Georgia, they can search your backpack if they so choose.
 
I do not think the student was accually arrested. Arrests must include a charge of some kind. More than likely he was detained, searched, and questioned. These procedures are identical to being arrested that you might as well say he was arrested, except you have more rights if you are charged.
 
The Constitution, by long standing legal tradition, applies to minors just like adults... but not really.
 
Any student not released to his/her parent upon request, makes the school liable for wrongful detention.
 
yup constitutional rights vary in schools. just like they can search your locker, without your consent, in public schools, at least in Georgia, they can search your backpack if they so choose.
In my high school the rules were that the police couldn't search you but they could search your locker, and if they found anything incriminating they then had the right to search you.
The Constitution, by long standing legal tradition, applies to minors just like adults... but not really.
Cops and teachers loved to question me without permission or a parent present. Parents make sure your kids know NOT to say anything until you arrive.
 
I do not think the student was accually arrested. Arrests must include a charge of some kind. More than likely he was detained, searched, and questioned. These procedures are identical to being arrested that you might as well say he was arrested, except you have more rights if you are charged.

Incorrect. In theory (not on paper) whenever you are pulled over for a traffic stop, you are "arrested." You are not allowed to leave until the cop tells you to. 99% of the time, you're "arrested" for about 10 min while he writes your ticket, then you are released. Being "Charged" with a crime is another separate process, coming after the arrest.
 
yup constitutional rights vary in schools

It almost has to be that way. There is nothing worse than arrogant, irresponsible high school kids who have a huge sense of entitlement and who constantly threaten teachers/admin with telling parents and/or calling lawyers. If we move in that direction as a society, our youth learns no respect for authority.

I'll give you a real example- a kid in class sneering "you can't raise your voice at me or that is emotional abuse and I can sue you!!" How many of us that went to high school from the 50's to the 90's want to laugh at this? :rolleyes:


On the flip side obviously you can't have liberal teachers over stepping bounds... (for example) but overall, I'd rather error on the side of leaving the teachers and adim more power, than having an exaggerated "bills of rights" for kids.

* Getting back to the post, the charge was odd... but chances are they didn't come in and cuff the head of the math club. It was probably a punk gang-wannabe type bragging to people he had a gun. You have to read between the lines.
 
We just had that thread on the British guy with the iPod getting arrested because a witness wrongly thought she saw a gun when all she saw was his iPod. The man was still arrested on a weapons charge even though there were no weapons involved.
It was said on that that thread that we are slowly but surely creeping toward that same demise as the Brits in eventually surrendering our right to be armed. California and New York lead the nation in many trends and I fear this one too, it is just a matter of time but the anti's will never give up, will never admit to the facts that more guns save lives than take them.
We finally have the story here on our shores of a person being arrested for gun possession when a gun was not found in his possession.
I hope I am never arrested for the manufacture of Crystal Meth even though I don't have a clue on drugs, illicit or otherwise.
I can hear the echoes of Paul Revere right now, "The British are coming!"
 
Jusy my thoughts on why they worded it "Suspicion." Even with a DWI we have to say Suspicion of DWI until we recieve the results of the chemical test. With a firearms case the gun must be capable of firing a shot, so they say suspicion of possessing a firearm until it has been lab tested and proven capable of firing. Otherwise it would be possession of a facsimile firearm.
 
It almost has to be that way. There is nothing worse than arrogant, irresponsible high school kids who have a huge sense of entitlement and who constantly threaten teachers/admin with telling parents and/or calling lawyers. If we move in that direction as a society, our youth learns no respect for authority.

Simple solution, really. Just eliminate mandatory high school attendance. If the drug dealers and other ne'er-do-wells don't want to go to school, don't force them. Then you can enforce any rules in school you want, because hey, if the students don't like the rules, they can leave.
 
it seems as though the issue could have been handled a LOT more delicatly and did not need to consern the entire student body and disturb their parents.
wouldn't it have been more expediant to search on the student accused of having a gun?
i see this, not so much as a trampling of childrens rights (which it does to a certain point) but rather an exscuse to say "look, look, a school shooting can't happen here. look what we did!" rather then actually dealing with the issue.

BTW, Albatross, it is one thing to admit to breaking the law (especially considering that you were a teen and selling cigerettes) its another to (even as a joke) to hint that others should/could take that same action.
just a gentle hint for future posts. ;)
 
Cops and school officials are on a happy power trip these days. I trust neither.

Their lack of accountability is appalling.
 
Gonna throw a few responses to different posters out there:
Students don't have the same rights as adults, and it was established long ago that schools may restrict rights as they see fit for the safety of the student body. For example, a school may ban certain cloths, expression of speech, randomly search lockers, etc.

As for the search of the general population, it really depends. There were two witnesses, and if one had given a different description, or if the student suspected of having the gun said he brought it for defense against a perceived threat from another student, then the Police could be held criminally negligent if there was a later shooting. It really just depends
I can see the search of a locker: the student doesn't own the locker. Certain types of speech (i.e., clothes) are not protected. I wonder: has a student ever been penalized, suspended, or expelled for legitimate political speech such as a "Vote Bush" shirt?

And what of religion? What happens when a school prohibits Jewish students from entering the building out of fear of anti-semitic attacks?

The age thing bothers me. What if this was a public university and the police were searching 18-year old freshmen instead of 17-year old high school seniors?

What if a student refused to cooperate?
That is the $64,000 question. It has been established that, say, in a traffic stop, failure to agree to a search is NOT probable cause for a search. What do you do to a 16-year old who may be exercising their rights or just acting like a snot? Beat them into submission? Expel them from school?

I do not think the student was accually {sic} arrested.
Read more closely:
Police on Friday arrested a student suspected of carrying a handgun on campus, forcing a daylong lockdown and search at a high school.

The male student was taken into custody on suspicion of possessing a firearm, police said.

Assuming the report is not false, it sure sounds like he was actually arrested.

They also can search your Car too if on school grounds.
Even I heard that back in high school (late 90s). I always parked on the street. My children will be instructed to do the same.

There is nothing worse than arrogant, irresponsible high school kids who have a huge sense of entitlement and who constantly threaten teachers/admin with telling parents and/or calling lawyers. If we move in that direction as a society, our youth learns no respect for authority.

While I somewhat agree and understand what you're saying, where do we draw the line? Just because a student or an adult is a jerk doesn't mean they no longer have rights.

If, during a traffic stop, a 35-year old man tells the officer "F*** no, piggy" when the officer asks if they can search the vehicle, that does not give the officer the right to beat the guy and search the car.

Kids and adults are losing respect for authority because those in positions of authority abuse their power. Respect must be earned. No-knock warrants, trumped-up charges, quasi-unconstitutional laws, ignorant cops... people are getting sick of it. And how does the average citizen know who is a good cop and who is a bad cop?

Open carry is an excellent example of this. There are dozens of legitimate stories here on THR about citizens exercising their rights only to be abused by cops who think they know better. Virginia seems to be a hot-point for this stuff.

I'd rather error on the side of leaving the teachers and adim more power, than having an exaggerated "bills of rights" for kids.
Kids don't need a separate one. The drafted over 200 years ago is just fine.

And be careful, your above quote isn't that much different than:
I'd rather err on the side of giving the police and government more power, than having an exaggerated "bill of rights" for citizens.


Who knows, maybe the kid is guilty as sin. But, things like this set a dangerous precedent. Imagine if it was your kid being arrested because a loose round of .22LR found its way into his/her pants and it was discovered during one of these "searches" because another student was accused of having a gun (which later turned out to be a cell phone).
 
I don't have photoshop so I used paint. Feel free to improve it if you like.
 
Colinthepilot said:
Incorrect. In theory (not on paper) whenever you are pulled over for a traffic stop, you are "arrested." You are not allowed to leave until the cop tells you to. 99% of the time, you're "arrested" for about 10 min while he writes your ticket, then you are released. Being "Charged" with a crime is another separate process, coming after the arrest.
Wrong.

A traffic stop is not an "arrest." It is a "detention."
 
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